2025 Driver Market

Current Formula One related news, information and discussion.
Post Reply
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#91

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Horner confirms "We are in no hurry"

For all Sergio's expectations and belief that he would know his future within a month or less Horner has scotched that by confirming they are in no hurry, and indeed would be leaving their decision until later in the season..... for the specific reason of keeping an eye on Sergios form and particularly his consistency, specifically suggesting that Sergio started last season strongly but from Miami, where he arrived within a handful of points to Max, he had an alarming about turn of form.... by Spain he was 60 points of Max with Alonso on his heels and by the British GP the gap was up to 4 wins.

His wording pretty much said as a team we are in no rush, whereas obviously theose under consideration would like a swift answer the team wont be pressured. Horner however did hint towards it staying as is..... as long as Sergio continues to be consistent.

Horner also confirmed that contrary to what has been said they in reality do not know what or even if Audi have made an offer to Sainz although he admitted that Carlos is the key player in the market at the moment.

The reality of Red Bull is to me that they are more than happy with Sergio this year, and are as such happy to give him time to prove his consistency or not. He also complimented Sergio on his increase in commitment saying he has spent many hours in the sim adapting his style more to the car.... a fact Hormner admitted makes development easier . If Sergio remains consistent, the gig is his, and with so many options available to the team if they lose an option through their procrastination (ie Sainz) they have other choices.

They are not that bothered if they lose Sainz given their confidence Sergio has turned a page and his this years revised modus operandi will likely avoid a slump in form. .

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2311
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#92

Post by Aty »

Horner can say whatever he wants (and he does as it appears), but Dr. Marko said he spoke with Carlos (and his father). He knows about deadline Sauber gave to Sainz for accepting their offer. Toto is also aware of the situation.

This is going to be "fun". Horner will be pretending Marko is not there, and unless they talking to him, then he doesn't "know".
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#93

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 1 week ago Horner can say whatever he wants (and he does as it appears), but Dr. Marko said he spoke with Carlos (and his father). He knows about deadline Sauber gave to Sainz for accepting their offer. Toto is also aware of the situation.

This is going to be "fun". Horner will be pretending Marko is not there, and unless they talking to him, then he doesn't "know".
I think the point Horner is making is that he is not bothered about making a decision now to suit what other drivers in the loop of potential drivers want, and that he is in no rush to make a decision early to suit others (ie Sainz) deadlines. In essence he doesnt need or want Sainz if Sergio manages to perform at his current level consistently during his ongoing evaluation..

Should Sergio suffer a lapse in form and Sainz has committed elsewhere then Horner has plenty of other options to fill what is basically a nominated #2 seat. It doesnt need to be Carlos, indeed it doesnt want to be someone who might be more intent or capable of competing with Max for wins.

The actual decision of who fills what seat at Red Bull is more Horners decision although Marko has a good deal of input and influence. It was Horner pulling rank that had Danny Ric placed at VCARB this year over Lawson. Marko has said he wanted Lawson over Danny but backed down to Horners wishes.

I am sure Horner is more than aware of every aspect of Sainz's proposal to Red Bull and his requested timelines / Audi deadlines . He is just not seeing any of it as important in terms of what his Red Bull teams deadlines are.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Star
Special Member
Special Member
Posts: 2866
Joined: 4 years ago
Real Name: Gill
Favourite Motorsport: F1
Favourite Driver: Sebastian Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Spa
Location: England

#94

Post by Star »

Yeah, basically, Sergio is trying really hard right now and doing well. If Red Bull give him a contract at this point he could get too comfortable and stop trying, like he did last year. That is how I would see the 'wait and see' decision on his future. You can't blame them either I'd say.
Just so you know, I am a woman

2022 Guess The Pole Champion!
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2311
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#95

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 week ago
Aty wrote: 1 week ago Horner can say whatever he wants (and he does as it appears), but Dr. Marko said he spoke with Carlos (and his father). He knows about deadline Sauber gave to Sainz for accepting their offer. Toto is also aware of the situation.

This is going to be "fun". Horner will be pretending Marko is not there, and unless they talking to him, then he doesn't "know".
I am sure Horner is more than aware of every aspect of Sainz's proposal to Red Bull and his requested timelines / Audi deadlines . He is just not seeing any of it as important in terms of what his Red Bull teams deadlines are.
RB team's deadlines are self-imposed dates which could be changed with a stroke of a pen if they want to. Problem is, they don't want him. CH couldn't care less if Sainz is or isn't available. He wants someone else.

Toto meanwhile also has a plan to his own, and Carlos may or may not fit in.

One could say the Sauber seat seems most likely solution for Carlos. (It's 90% probability he will drive there.)
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#96

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Im equally sure Carlos wont be too pressured by the Sauber/Audi deadline. He surely will call their bluff. They dont need to sort their drivers by next week. They are not at this moment in time important enough to commit too for next year when they will just be an evolution of this year. ie at best only slightly less crap than this year. At worse fallen further behind Williams and VCARB. I still dont see the point from Sainz's side to sign up for what will only become mediocrity in the 3rd year. Its a very long term plan for Carlos to realistically get a car that (even by Audu admission) wont be competitive until 4 or 5 years time.

Even if any Mercedes offer might be for 12 months take that. Force Audi and show some balls. Audi dont need Sainz next year, and can make do with just extending Zhou for another year and putting his 30 million euros into their development fund. Or Bottas.

Carlos goes to Mercedes for maybe a year which might get extended to two and then goes to Audi.

Yes it is clear there are if rumours are true, there are short term financial benefits in the Audi offer and commitment, but Carlos has many well paid years behind him and is already very very wealthy. Sometimes less greed is better.

I guess at the root of my complacency is that Audi are not in a position from a side of anything beyond long term potential to be making audacious deadlines days or weeks away.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2311
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#97

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 week ago Im equally sure Carlos wont be too pressured by the Sauber/Audi deadline. He surely will call their bluff. They dont need to sort their drivers by next week. They are not at this moment in time important enough to commit too for next year when they will just be an evolution of this year. ie at best only slightly less crap than this year. At worse fallen further behind Williams and VCARB. I still dont see the point from Sainz's side to sign up for what will only become mediocrity in the 3rd year. Its a very long term plan for Carlos to realistically get a car that (even by Audu admission) wont be competitive until 4 or 5 years time.

Even if any Mercedes offer might be for 12 months take that. Force Audi and show some balls. Audi dont need Sainz next year, and can make do with just extending Zhou for another year and putting his 30 million euros into their development fund. Or Bottas.

Carlos goes to Mercedes for maybe a year which might get extended to two and then goes to Audi.

Yes it is clear there are if rumours are true, there are short term financial benefits in the Audi offer and commitment, but Carlos has many well paid years behind him and is already very very wealthy. Sometimes less greed is better.

I guess at the root of my complacency is that Audi are not in a position from a side of anything beyond long term potential to be making audacious deadlines days or weeks away.
Interesting, and it may happen as you suggested. Where I slightly disagree is in characterisations. "Bluffing" is typical Anglo-American tool in negotiations. In a German company there is a plan and a reason. Straight forward aim. No time to play games. In my direct knowledge, managers (not a driver, in this case) are in charge and bear responsibilities.

All what I would sincerely suggest to Carlos, don't overplay your hand. Audi is not interfering with Andrea's decisions, but they will, if they see erratic leadership and organizational mess in execution. If they want a quality driver, obviously they want him to be prepared for decent start. Someone showing up Monday morning in 2026 with an idea he needs "his time" for his systems integration is not how it usually works. I guess what I am saying, once confirmed for 2025, there might not be a seat available in Hinwil for any new driver in 2026 and 2027.

Anyhoo, Good luck to them all.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#98

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Since posting that I have read an article by the highly respected F1 scribe of many decades Joe Saward. He has some intresting thoughts covering many drivers and teams. However, he seems to be on the same page as me in terms of Audi and Sainz / Hulkenberg.

Following in an extract from a much longer article. Prior to this in the article he was talking of Zhou and how he would like to see Zhou stay. He talks of all the major teams as well, and insider info that suggests there are moves afoot to have Antonelli in a Williams for Imola.... giving Sargeant a US Swansong at Miami.

The hiccup to that is that Antonelli is still only 17 years old. After Max joined F1 the FIA tightened the rules requiring any driver to be 18 before being granted an FIA Superlicense. He turns 18 in August. Apparently he already has the required points for an SL, just not the years. Personally I think it is too soon, just 3 or 4 races into F2 having jumped to that category from F4 and regional open wheeler stuff. Yes he has impressed in testing F1 cars of late and has many for tests with Mercedes 2022 car lined up so Mercedes are keen.

Of course the Antonelli hysteria compromises Carlos ambitions at Mercedes.
Anyway the Saward article.... a worthwhile read.
......I hope that he (Zhou) is still around in F1 in 2025 as I think he deserves more given that the team has not been very good in recent years and this has held him back.

Still, dreams (even Hollywood ones) cannot always overcome harsh realities and it is clear that Audi has much bigger plans now that it has taken over the Sauber team. Having said that, there is no sign of any action at the moment and if there are Audi people about, they are pretty invisible…

Still, the German marque is busy in the driver market, trying to pin down some star names for the future. It is clear that the likes of Carlos Sainz and Nico Hulkenberg (the two top choices for Audi) do not wish to be pinned down this early – as there are bigger and better drives possible. The driver market is currently held up because Mercedes wants to try to lure Max Verstappen away from Red Bull Racing and because Red Bull is not making any decision about Sergio Perez. The chances are that Max will not leave Red Bull until he has seen what the engine situation is after the 2026 season. Alonso has signed for Aston Martin because he did not get enough interest from Mercedes or Red Bull and thus jumped early to ensure a seat for years to come.

Red Bull is thinking: “Why change something that works?” Perez is doing a better job this year, even if the cynics say that Sergio always wakes up at contract time. The amusing reality is that it is probably best for Red Bull NOT to sign Sergio until the end of the year, so he keeps up his current performance and does not go off the boil once he has a contract in the bag.

Sainz might be a better option in terms of performance, but Carlos is a different character and much more political (so they say). There is also the question of 2026 and beyond as Red Bull seem to be pretty keen on securing Alex Albon for the future. Williams would like to keep the Anglo-Thai for longer and he might be tempted to stay on if the team builds a better car, but he may be keen on Red Bull because if Max leaves Albon could become the team leader.

Audi is offering Carlos a lot of money and thus he must decide whether he wants performance or cash. But what he would like is time to make a decision and Audi does not want to give him that. It is the same with Hulkenberg. Audi is pushing but he is still not sure. Drivers are there to win races. Money follows success. So Audi really needs to get things moving before trying to catch big stars in their butterfly nets.

Mercedes has a different problem. The team is currently assessing whether it’s a good idea to put its prodigy Andrea Kimi Antonelli into Lewis Hamilton’s seat in 2025. The 17-year-old Italian recently spent two days testing a 2021 Mercedes W12 in Austria and a string of further tests is planned in the weeks ahead with a 2022 W13. The team seems keen to promote Antonelli but is worried that this might be too big a step and that it would be better for him to get some time in a smaller team before joining Mercedes in 2026. Antonelli could be loaned out to Williams, which is looking for a driver right now. Williams would take Antonelli if they could have him for 18 months, but the problem is that he is not old enough to get a superlicence until August 25th, when he turns 18. Williams might try asking the FIA for a dispensation, given that Max Verstappen was fine when he entered F1 at the age of 17, and if a youngster has what it takes then he should be allowed in. This is a fair argument.

There is a lot of value in F1 getting a new rising star, particularly one from Italy. It’s a positive story – and the FIA could use a few of them at the moment. Refusal would be another negative story about the federation. If Antonelli did get a dispensation, he would be in the Williams at Imola on May 19, the perfect place for a Bolognese driver to make his F1 debut.

Logan Sargeant would get to race in front of his home crowd in Miami before being let go… This might all sound brutal, but F1 is about excellence – Top Gun, the elite, the best of the best – and Sargeant has had plenty of chances. I think Williams has been fair with him and has really wanted him to succeed – because an American F1 driver would be great news for the team and for the sport. The problem is that the battle for points this year is cut-throat.
If you want the full article. https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/04 ... nsylvania/

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2311
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#99

Post by Aty »

In re: invisible Audi people

I think Audi was quite transparent about their involvement prior 2026. Saward can ignore it, but it dosen't changes what we have.

1. Audi is advancing to Sauber all cash needed right now.
2. Audi is concentrating on PU.
3. Audi Sport technical chief Oliver Hoffmann is now officially on the board of directors at Sauber. (He is not in operations.)
4. Seidl will oversee the running of the Formula 1 project and act as the “face of the future Audi Formula 1 Team”.

Note: Hoffman / technical. German industrial leadership requires of a person to possess an engineering and business degrees or extensive experience.

There are no Audi personnel involved in running racing operations. If any, maybe assisting with upgrades of Sauber facilities within equalisations framework to a competitive level where top teams operate. That's all.

It is true that Sauber has not delivered yet top shelve racing vehicle. It has been however disclosed, that based on in-depth analyses, neither of current drivers has reached potential of a vehicle they have. Does Sauber (Audi) owes anything to Zhou? Wrong question. Plans are made based on available data.

Saward wants to lecture Audi how to run their business. I would tell him - don't waste your breath and concentrate on British teams like Williams. They might need it. They are in the business for years, and despite all commercial changes the F1 was subjected (in order to help teams like them), today they still coming to races without spare parts. Audi, in contrast, is new, and their involvement is as of 2026.

Regarding best drivers they want and get - is there any team on the grid which is different? If so, I don't know of any.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#100

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Maybe Audi, might divert some of their assistance with updates, towards helping Sauber design a wheelnut that can effectively be used in pitstops. :wink: :suspicious:

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2311
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#101

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 week ago Maybe Audi, might divert some of their assistance with updates, towards helping Sauber design a wheelnut that can effectively be used in pitstops. :wink: :suspicious:
I don't know if someone look at it. What I however do remember, that Audi explicitly refused to be associated with any current operations. Someone noted that already just owning a team carries dark side. Despite ultra strict technology separations, whatever bad is happening at Hinwil plant, Audi gets a black eye in media next day.

Audi plans to get involved technically Jan 1, 2026 and as far as I can tell, nothing has changed on that.
User avatar
Vassago
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 3500
Joined: 20 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1, IndyCar
Favourite Driver: Senna, Clark, Montoya
Favourite Circuit: Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Location: Poland

#102

Post by Vassago »

Mercedes really wants to promote Antonelli ASAP. Sargeant is a waste of space since he's a complete liability at this stage but I can totally see Antonelli being ruined by moving up too fast. No F3 and three F2 rounds before potentially getting to F1? Yeah, not everyone is Raikkonen...
07.04.1968 - Flower of Scotland when will we see your like again?
01.05.1994 - We'll never forget...
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#103

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Vassago wrote: 1 week ago Mercedes really wants to promote Antonelli ASAP. Sargeant is a waste of space since he's a complete liability at this stage but I can totally see Antonelli being ruined by moving up too fast. No F3 and three F2 rounds before potentially getting to F1? Yeah, not everyone is Raikkonen...
Plus Antonelli has been frankly underwhelming in F2 so far. I fear Toto is pushing his boat too fast and ideally another season in F2 is required. Certainly the talk of getting a dispensation (for him being underage) for an SL and being on the grid for a local boy makes good debut at Imola could so easily end in tears and potentially the destruction of a career. As you say not everyone is a Raikkonen.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Aty
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 2311
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Driver: Prost, Schumacher, Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife

#104

Post by Aty »

Has Kimi at least completed high school yet? Only carless or mentally challenged people would sent a 17 years old into the F1, regardless of his potential in later years, and once he can say properly ma-ma, or da-da...
User avatar
Star
Special Member
Special Member
Posts: 2866
Joined: 4 years ago
Real Name: Gill
Favourite Motorsport: F1
Favourite Driver: Sebastian Vettel
Favourite Circuit: Spa
Location: England

#105

Post by Star »

Vassago wrote: 1 week ago Mercedes really wants to promote Antonelli ASAP. Sargeant is a waste of space since he's a complete liability at this stage but I can totally see Antonelli being ruined by moving up too fast. No F3 and three F2 rounds before potentially getting to F1? Yeah, not everyone is Raikkonen...
Maybe he saw how Oliver Bearman coped in the Ferrari under all that pressure and thinks the same will be true of Antonelli. He could be right, then again he could also ruin young Kimi's career if he's wrong. That would be really bad.
Just so you know, I am a woman

2022 Guess The Pole Champion!
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 49503
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#106

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 1 week ago Has Kimi at least completed high school yet? Only carless or mentally challenged people would sent a 17 years old into the F1, regardless of his potential in later years, and once he can say properly ma-ma, or da-da...
Max was only 17yrs and 5 months when he made his race debut at the 2015 Australian GP. In fact it was after some concern as to Max's age on debut that the following year in 2016 the Superlicence rules were slapped with a minimum age of 18 by the FIA. Hence any race debut earlier than August 25th this year (when Antonelli turns 18) will require a special FIA dispensation..

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Post Reply