2023 ROLEX GROSSER PREIS VON ÖSTERREICH (AUSTRIAN) GP

[Everso Biggyballies]

Bottom post of the previous page:

It may not remain this way though as they have given every team the right of appeal!

Rightly, some teams are raising issues over the delays in dishing infringement notices out meant teams could not warn their drivers they were on 2 strikes so be careful.... they suddenly got told of a black flag situation at the same time as being told they had been given a penalty.

Oh, so drivers breaking the rules and thinking they got away with it, should actually get away with it because they were not told they were busted? Reminds me of the driver who contested a speed trap ticket claiming his radar didn't warn him...

As the song you will remember said, "Dont let me be misunderstood....". I have probably not worded it very well. I dont think they should get away with it, but my rightly so comment was more aimed at the tardiness of the decisions, seemingly several minutes or laps, and the fact that in effect drivers did not know they were on a last strike until they had done it again and the FIA just were not on top of it. Its a bit like in tennis with a ball being perhaps out. It is called straight away so the players know. They dont allow a rally to continue for another dozen shots and then the umpire says oh that ball was out ten shots ago therefore the point is reversed, because the eventual point winner actually hit the ball out at the beginning of the rally.

There must be a more instantaneous method of a driver being told he is in breach. Whether that be a light on the dash flashing up I dont know.
I have read that the problem with this particular circuit is that it has to cater for Moto GP and Superbikes. It doesnt seem to effect any of the many other tracks that host motorbikes and F1. ISTR we had similar problems with the Red Bull Ring last year as well.

[White six]

Track - > Kerb - > Grass - > Gravel - > Wall.

Rocket science, it isn't.

Instinctively I want to say a high-sided motorbike rider probably wants to land in gravel rather than on tarmac but as someone who falls over even glancing at a parked motorbike I'm definitely not best placed to assume that's the case.

They bounce across tarmac, spreading out the impact, gravel they can get dug in, so maybe just one impact.

I don't see why nicely watered grass is a problem though, bit of sliding and bouncing

[Aty]

There were times we had just flags and sign-boards on the side of pits, and no one complained. Life was good.

[Star]

Here we are then, I've just seen the race and these are my thoughts on it.

Well that was an up and down race, for a while it seemed like it was going to be quite interesting, then it all sort of tailed off for the most part. It's a shame but that is the current state of F1 apparently. It's also a shame that Alonso and Aston Martin seem to have lost their earlier advantage, that was entertaining for a while there.

Hulkenberg is apparently the new Jarno Trulli, fast in qualifying but slow in the race causing a train of traffic to build up behind him. Had his car not failed we'd have had a good train going on there I reckon.

Carlos Sainz was once again the angry man of F1 and who can blame him given how Ferrari are behaving right now? He was clearly faster than Leclerc early on in the race but they wouldn't let him by to have a go at Verstappen. I think that was a mistake but that is just my opinion, well, mine and Sainz's.

The penalties were being handed out like sweets for track limits. As David Coulthard said, the lines don't move, so it's up to the drivers to adhere to the limits. Hamilton said he couldn't stay within the lines but he seemed to manage it after his penalty, interesting. I lost count of how many drivers got penalised on that.

When they had the virtual safety car I thought Red Bull had made a mistake in not bringing Verstappen in. They made him pass both Ferrari's on track, then again, he made it look fairly easy, so they clearly know better than I do.

Sainz was clever in trying to keep Norris in the DRS zone to prevent Perez getting by him too easily. Shame Norris spoilt it by making that mistake and letting Perez through all too quickly. It was a good recovery drive by Checho from starting 15th to end up 3rd but no one was going to catch Max and prevent him taking another win it seems.

Onward and upward to Silverstone then, the one race a year I get to watch live. I am looking forward to that as you'd expect.

[Star]

@Everso Biggyballies

I know like me that you like your stats, well here's an unexpected one for you

I know, I was shocked about Lance Stroll as well

[MonteCristo]

@Everso Biggyballies

I know like me that you like your stats, well here's an unexpected one for you

I know, I was shocked about Lance Stroll as well

The "participation award" is alive and kicking.

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

Carlos Sainz was once again the angry man of F1 and who can blame him given how Ferrari are behaving right now? He was clearly faster than Leclerc early on in the race but they wouldn't let him by to have a go at Verstappen. I think that was a mistake but that is just my opinion, well, mine and Sainz's.

IMHO Sainz has every reason to be upset, Ferrari behaved very unfairly towards him, he clearly had the pace but they ruined his race once again. I think that issuing team orders so early in the season - despite the fact that Leclerc isn't fighting for the WDC, despite the fact that yesterday he wasn't fighting for the win and despite the fact that notwithstanding the last 2 races Sainz is still clearly ahead of Leclerc in the standings - IMHO is just bad sportsmanship

Sainz needs to find a new team, Ferrari made their choice and they chose Leclerc (for reasons that are beyond me as so far Leclerc hasn't delivered as consistently as required to be WDC, and so far this season his performace has been patchy at best)

[Ruslan]

Hulkenberg is apparently the new Jarno Trulli, fast in qualifying but slow in the race causing a train of traffic to build up behind him. Had his car not failed we'd have had a good train going on there I reckon.

An odd comparison. Hulkenberg is not known as a great qualifier and known to be pretty consistent.. I suspect the Trulli effect is because of the car not the driver. No sure how that works. If you can built a car that is fast in qualifying, then why can't it be fast for 71 laps in a row?

Carlos Sainz was once again the angry man of F1 and who can blame him given how Ferrari are behaving right now? He was clearly faster than Leclerc early on in the race but they wouldn't let him by to have a go at Verstappen. I think that was a mistake but that is just my opinion, well, mine and Sainz's.

Yea, I was debating doing a post about this race... but felt it might be nothing but negative comments, so passed. Sainz needs to find another team soon (I think I said that after the last race).

[Ruslan]

Sainz needs to find a new team, Ferrari made their choice and they chose Leclerc (for reasons that are beyond me as so far Leclerc hasn't delivered as consistently as required to be WDC, and so far this season his performace has been patchy at best)

Agreed that Sainz needs a new team. Never been a Sainz fan, as he seems to lack that fire that I expect in WCs. On the other hand, every time I am about to relegate him to being just a good supporting driver, he starts producing impressive drives. I suspect that image of never quite measuring up (been going on since Torro Rosso) hurts him at Ferrari.

I do rate Leclerc highly. He does seem to have that edge that gives him more poles and race wins than Sainz at the critical moment. But he is clearly favored at Ferrari.

[Michael Ferner]

It may not remain this way though as they have given every team the right of appeal!

Rightly, some teams are raising issues over the delays in dishing infringement notices out meant teams could not warn their drivers they were on 2 strikes so be careful.... they suddenly got told of a black flag situation at the same time as being told they had been given a penalty.

Oh, so drivers breaking the rules and thinking they got away with it, should actually get away with it because they were not told they were busted? Reminds me of the driver who contested a speed trap ticket claiming his radar didn't warn him...

As the song you will remember said, "Dont let me be misunderstood....". I have probably not worded it very well. I dont think they should get away with it, but my rightly so comment was more aimed at the tardiness of the decisions, seemingly several minutes or laps, and the fact that in effect drivers did not know they were on a last strike until they had done it again and the FIA just were not on top of it. Its a bit like in tennis with a ball being perhaps out. It is called straight away so the players know. They dont allow a rally to continue for another dozen shots and then the umpire says oh that ball was out ten shots ago therefore the point is reversed, because the eventual point winner actually hit the ball out at the beginning of the rally.

There must be a more instantaneous method of a driver being told he is in breach. Whether that be a light on the dash flashing up I dont know.
I have read that the problem with this particular circuit is that it has to cater for Moto GP and Superbikes. It doesnt seem to effect any of the many other tracks that host motorbikes and F1. ISTR we had similar problems with the Red Bull Ring last year as well.

All very well and true, but I don't buy the oh-my-driver-didn't-know-about-being-on-a-last-strike-otherwise-he-wouldn't-have-overstepped-the-line-BS. If you push the limits, don't act surprised if it bites back. Other drivers managed to keep it between the lines, with or without warnings. It's not tennis.

As for track limits, I propose planting big, fat trees along the track.

[Tom]

Track - > Kerb - > Grass - > Gravel - > Wall.

Rocket science, it isn't.

Instinctively I want to say a high-sided motorbike rider probably wants to land in gravel rather than on tarmac but as someone who falls over even glancing at a parked motorbike I'm definitely not best placed to assume that's the case.

They bounce across tarmac, spreading out the impact, gravel they can get dug in, so maybe just one impact.

That sounds decidedly unpleasant. I'll get back in my box.

[Everso Biggyballies]

All very well and true, but I don't buy the oh-my-driver-didn't-know-about-being-on-a-last-strike-otherwise-he-wouldn't-have-overstepped-the-line-BS. If you push the limits, don't act surprised if it bites back. Other drivers managed to keep it between the lines, with or without warnings. It's not tennis.

As for track limits, I propose planting big, fat trees along the track.

I m with you. there.... at the end of the day these guys are allegedly the best in the world and most manage to lap Monaco hundreds of times in a GP weekend with no problems with track limits, knowing the consequences are more physical in terms of ending there race or session, much more so than a slap on the wrist and the wave of a black/white flag.

However the system had a big fail this weekend, and perhaps the answer is that track limits breaches must be something that might lose them a few seconds at least every time they run off the track.

Resorting to one of Jackie Stewarts quotes in that he would often say how Schumacher, Hamilton etc would make more mistakes in a weekend than he and his contemporaries would in a season or career because the consequences now are negligible whereas in his day a mistake would usually end in those big fat nasty trees you mention, or certainly some race ending consequence.

[Ruslan]

@Everso Biggyballies

I know like me that you like your stats, well here's an unexpected one for you

I know, I was shocked about Lance Stroll as well

Yes. Lance Stroll... greater than any Villeneuve.

[Everso Biggyballies]

@Everso Biggyballies

I know like me that you like your stats, well here's an unexpected one for you

I know, I was shocked about Lance Stroll as well

Yes. Lance Stroll... greater that any Villeneuve.

To take it a stage further even Gilles Villeneuve, who only started near enough half the races Stroll has, would have scored over 400 points under the current 25 per win current scenario., and that obviously doesnt include anything for Sprint races which Lances points score includes.

Actually Gilles won 6 GPs and scored 13 podiums, giving him a win %age of almost 10% of starts. (JV scored wins in 6.75% of races started ).
Gilles scored a podium on 19.75 % of race starts, Jacques 14.11% of starts.

So the self proclaimed greatest ever Canadian driver, Lance Strolovich, compares with a mighty 0 (thats zero)% for the race wins v races started, and just 2.29% of his starts have resulted in a podium.
(That is less than Albon Ocon Gasly and 12 current drivers who have scored podiums in their career. He just beats KMags podium percentage. The only one he does beat.). But with Kevin he does have the honour of getting a second placed podium on his first ever F1 start. Very few can claim a better or even matching F1 debut than that. Certainly no on the current grid, even Hamilton, cant match 2nd on debut. Kevin has not finished on the podium since though.

[Star]

@Everso Biggyballies

I know like me that you like your stats, well here's an unexpected one for you

I know, I was shocked about Lance Stroll as well

Yes. Lance Stroll... greater that any Villeneuve.

To take it a stage further even Gilles Villeneuve, who only started near enough half the races Stroll has, would have scored over 400 points under the current 25 per win current scenario., and that obviously doesnt include anything for Sprint races which Lances points score includes.

Actually Gilles won 6 GPs and scored 13 podiums, giving him a win %age of almost 10% of starts. (JV scored wins in 6.75% of races started ).
Gilles scored a podium on 19.75 % of race starts, Jacques 14.11% of starts.

So the self proclaimed greatest ever Canadian driver, Lance Strolovich, compares with a mighty 0 (thats zero)% for the race wins v races started, and just 2.29% of his starts have resulted in a podium.
(That is less than Albon Ocon Gasly and 12 current drivers who have scored podiums in their career. He just beats KMags podium percentage. The only one he does beat.). But with Kevin he does have the honour of getting a second placed podium on his first ever F1 start. Very few can claim a better or even matching F1 debut than that. Certainly no on the current grid, even Hamilton, cant match 2nd on debut. Kevin has not finished on the podium since though.

My thoughts exactly. Stroll has been there a long time, thanks to daddy's money, and he's managed to pick up lots of points, but he's not exactly a great of the sport, inf act most of the time, he's not even a 'good' of the sport. So boasting like that is just ridiculous.

[Aty]

The world of alternative facts (Conway) made the Internet buzzing. Anything for the headlines, mission accomplished.