2026 Engine Regs stuff and potential engine manus / team partnerships.

[Everso Biggyballies]

OK, another new thread and one I thought we should have to keep things simple

Obviously with the new engine regs now pretty much put to bed we have a number of committed engine manufacturers. Obviously some or all of these will be looking at tying up with teams to both defray their costs and add to the data collected to assist their development into the future beyond 2026.

Already we have rumours and uncertainties regarding existing relationship, some more complicated than others. (Red Bull / Alpha Tauri I am looking at you). Whether there is some ongoing relationship with Honda and Red Bull is unknown but of course both Red Bull Powertains (RBPT) and Honda are both independently registered to be engine providers. Then there is the recent Ford throwing their hat in with Red Bull (and Alpha Tauri)

As background we currently have in place arrangements with the 10 teams and the various engine suppliers, but for the record this is where we stand currently. Some probably most of these deals extend into technical partnerships beyond just engines. Haas use a lot of Ferrari parts from the entire powertrain and transmission to include also rear suspensions and other associated bits. In this listing for simplicity I am putting both RB and AT down as Honda because thats how they this year appear on the entry list.

We currently have 4 engine manufacturers providing 10 teams.

Currently we have :

Team. Engine provider
Alfa Romeo.... Ferrari
Alpha Tauri.... Honda
Alpine.... Renault
Aston Martin.... Mercedes
Ferrari.... Ferrari
Haas.... Ferrari
McLaren.... Mercedes
Mercedes.... Mercedes
Red Bull..... Honda
Williams.... Mercedes.



From 2026 we have the following committed engine manufacturers / suppliers. (None of them called Porsche )

What we dont know is whether this is an agreement in concept to be there, or a contractual obligation. I believe at this stage it is the former.

Renault-owned Alpine Racing,
Audi,
Ferrari,
Honda Racing Corporation,
Mercedes-AMG High Performance Powertrains and
Red Bull Ford

....all registered to supply the next generation of engines.

Right, that is the background.....

[Everso Biggyballies]

Onto the Rumours...

Well at he top we have Red Bull and how their relationship with Ford will be. It seems like at this stage it will be likely RBPT built engines with Ford Badges on the cam covers. A sort of Commercial / sponsorship arrangement. Ford might have technical input but ostensibly the engines will be built by RBPT

But beyond that we today have the first official rumour of a new tie up for 2026 from a customer point of view. And it involves partnerships between the two factors that have been as good as it gets, contra'd by a relationship that was as bad as it gets.

McLaren Honda F1 reunion mooted




Reports emanating from the UK suggest that McLaren and Honda could rekindle their initially hugely successful and subsequently dismal F1 relationship with a McLaren Honda Part 3.

Honda of course have the biggest record of in out in all aspects of Team and Engine supplier status involvement witth F1, stemming from the sixties.

Before setting up with BAR and then Honda F1 they teamed with McLaren to dominate F 1 in the late 1980s and early 1990s Senna Prost era before they withdrew from the sport. Oh and (as @Michael Ferner will remember back in the last millennium they had some evil Spirit associations)

Honda has since returned, as an engine supplier and as a team before selling up to Ross Brawn(which became Mercedes before returning again to provide possibly the most unreliable (GP2 ) engines of the era with McLaren, before moving on again, winning three world championships with Red Bull – two drivers’ crowns with Max and a Constructors title with RB. Plus a race wins with the sister STR / AT team


So we know of the proposed names listed above that Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Audi, and now Red Bull / Ford all have factory teams. (ie in house engines)

That leaves McLaren, Aston Martin, Haas, and Williams as ‘independent’ operations.

Aston Martin and Williams both have deep relationships with Mercedes while Haas has a close technical deal with Ferrari – indeed, its design team is based in Maranello. Sauber / Alfa will be Audi by then

McLaren meanwhile has a deal with Mercedes but unlike the deep routed relationship Williams and Aston have with Merc, in Astons case beyond F1,.....Aston Martin has links via its road car business to Mercedes.

So McLaren are the most independent.... They have simply a fixed price supply of engines deal with Merc, and a contract expiring end 2025..

Honda if their commitment is to be believed need to have a customer to provide....Their options appear to be limited under the way things are.

Would McLaren want to re-align with Honda over a continued fixed price known quantity supply deal with Mercedes?


Given their history more recently and their improvement since ditching Honda one would wonder. But there could be benefits with a Honda deal
The simplest is the financial aspect, with Honda bearing the cost of development, maintenance, and supply.

Beyond that, there is the ability to have a greater influence on the design process, allowing for better packaging and integration in the chassis itself. That can have benefits when it comes to aerodynamics, weight distribution, and cooling.

Factory power units are therefore an intriguing proposition. But they need to match the competition if not exceed from both a reliability and performance standpoint. With new regs is a one horse (team) programme enough to develop a concept under completely new regs. One bad direction in the design we know can be disaster (look at the Merc chassis under new car regs last year)

Of course McLaren Honda returning is a rumour at this stage..... but according to reports initial contact has been made between the two organisations, rekindling the relationship that won titles nearly 35 years ago, (but which proved disastrous from 2015 to 2017. )

Watch this space. Plus of ourse add any other info regarding other potential deals that come along.

For that we have of course the opening of applications from new teams.
Not to mention Andretti's continued attempts to join the circus. Whether that be successful and if so if with Chevrolet / Cadillac branded Renault / Alpine engines we dont know.

[Michael Ferner]

McLaren/Honda definitely makes sense, for both of them. I click the "will happen" option.

[XcraigX]

There is a possibility of Andretti having Honda supply to start off. They have had strong ties in Indycar for years.

Also, not sure how strong the Williams partnership is. Right now they act as the junior team to Mercedes, but if they want to move up, they need to break that cycle. A new partner would make sense.

And I am open to McLaren/Honda 3, but I am in the "it's a strong possibility" camp (as I do not think it's certain). They could also go the Ford route as that was their partner from inception up to the early 80s (last used in the MP4/1)

[Everso Biggyballies]

There is a possibility of Andretti having Honda supply to start off. They have had strong ties in Indycar for years.

Also, not sure how strong the Williams partnership is. Right now they act as the junior team to Mercedes, but if they want to move up, they need to break that cycle. A new partner would make sense.

And I am open to McLaren/Honda 3, but I am in the "it's a strong possibility" camp (as I do not think it's certain). They could also go the Ford route as that was their partner from inception up to the early 80s (last used in the MP4/1)

I had forgotten about the Andretti Honda link.... However I always thought that was not an HRC provided engine , rather something done by Honda US through someone like Illmor.. Hence no real link other than a badge. (But none the less yes a link.)

Re Williams they have under Dorilton ownership become closer I believe... SFW ? PH were always reluctant to look for the easy option in sourcing parts through a technical partner.... on the basis of they were better at engineering than anyone else and it kept their people busy. Dorilton are it seems very happy to outsource as much of the car as possible, certainly the whole powertrain and Transmission plus the suspension that naturally hangs off that (Merc) combination.

Re McLaren and Ford, that was back in the Cosworth (Ford Badged) DFV / DFY days that also powered half the grid. Having said that the RBT Ford seems to be likely an RBT engine with Ford Badges ..... so I guess what goes around comes around. Sort of full circle.

Plus there is always the other point of the Honda link.... of all the names listed, Honda is the one that would least surprise me if it never transpired. As I mentioned my understanding is that none of these names are contractually bound beyond it being an expression of (serious) interest. All the other names on the list have direct roots to a Concorde contracted car. ie their commitment is more concrete than Honda. (Even if Ford fell over RBPT are still going to be putting engines in at least 4 cars. They pretty much have to go ahead whereas with Honda its more just not wanting to miss out. If it gets too difficult then its is easy for them to say see ya.

Actually just writing this post I had the thought of if Williams needed a lets call it a Mercedes break, they could also go down the RBPT / RBPT- Ford avenue and still get the outsourced components via Red Bull. With Honda they are on their own developing and designing transmission suspensions etc.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Re Williams they have under Dorilton ownership become closer I believe... SFW / PH were always reluctant to look for the easy option in sourcing parts through a technical partner.... on the basis of they were better at engineering than anyone else and it kept their people busy. Dorilton are it seems very happy to outsource as much of the car as possible, certainly the whole powertrain and Transmission plus the suspension that naturally hangs off that (Merc) combination.

Actually just writing this post I had the thought of if Williams needed a lets call it a Mercedes break, they could also go down the RBPT / RBPT- Ford avenue and still get the outsourced components via Red Bull. With Honda they are on their own developing and designing transmission suspensions etc.

Just as I have written that Williams, with their taking of the Mercedes complete gearbox and transmission rather than producing their own might be an indication of a policy change in the wind, Williams have today indicated they will not be chasing closer links to an 'engineering partner as in a Haas / Sauber manner.

As I said they historically long believed that its best chances of success in F1 come from it being fully independent.

But while its decision from the start of last year to take a Mercedes gearbox, rather than produce its own, marked a big departure from its policy of the past, the team says that it will not make any further steps in the direction of becoming a customer team.

Although Haas' growing competitiveness in F1 has shown the benefits that can come from taking car parts from a manufacturer, thanks to its relationship with Ferrari, Williams remains adamant it can succeed alone.

"I think we can do what we need to do with the relationship we currently have with Mercedes for the next couple of years," explained Williams' head of vehicle performance Dave Robson.

"They provide us with some amount of hardware that's extremely good. But we are an independent team and we need to take the rest of it forwards on our own, or at least be prepared to do that.

"We'll see what the future holds for 2026 when things get shaken up again. But I don't think we want to follow a Haas model."

Never say never but although they indicate that maybe 2026 MIGHT bring a change of thought, they at this stage see their independence as an asset in the same manner as Williams original founders and mantra.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Re the McLaren Honda rumours, McLaren CEO Zak Brown says the team are still considering whether to team up with a power unit manufacture as a works partner in 2026.

Statements like that hardly quash the rumours.

Having said that, whilst being open to a works association, Zak did say they are very happy with Mercedes.

“We’re very happy with Mercedes,” Brown said. “We have some time to decide what we want to do in ’26 and beyond.

“I think it’s exciting for Formula 1 that you have as many manufacturers coming into the sport. I think that shows the growth and excitement for the sport. So it’s something that Andrea [Stella, team principal] and I are in the process of slowly reviewing. We’re not in a big rush and we are very happy with Mercedes. So we’ll see how things play out over the next year or so before we need to make a decision.”

[Aty]

“We’re very happy with Mercedes,” Brown said. “We have some time to decide what we want to do in ’26 and beyond.

Is this kind of planning good enough for Honda to effortlessly join in at later date? Hardly. Unless of course Honda decide to develop new generation power plant on their own with hope that a client will knock on the door later on. Financing of it however could be a subject for difficult conversation the team would have at home. As it is, it seems Honda is out of it for 2026.

[Michael Ferner]

“We’re very happy with Mercedes,” Brown said. “We have some time to decide what we want to do in ’26 and beyond.

“I think it’s exciting for Formula 1 that you have as many manufacturers coming into the sport. I think that shows the growth and excitement for the sport. So it’s something that Andrea [Stella, team principal] and I are in the process of slowly reviewing. We’re not in a big rush and we are very happy with Mercedes. So we’ll see how things play out over the next year or so before we need to make a decision.”

Well, if I were McLaren and had a deal with Honda in place for 2026, I would say the exact same thing. No point in eroding the relationship with your present partner without need, it will save a lot of hassle. Would you tell your wife you were planning to marry your mistress in three years time?

[Aty]

D/T 2023.02.21 - 08:50 (CET)

Kontakt zu mehreren Teams

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ere-teams/

So, what's up with Honda? Phone is off the hook every day?

• Honda is on the list of engine suppliers.
  Honda is curious where all these changes will lead to (and how that technology can be adopted for consumers market).
  Honda is at the table (and participating in negotiations).
  Honda is without customers. (Ferrari is also losing one to Audi.)
  Honda may or may not be on the grid in 2026. (McLaren if of course playing hard to get.)

[Everso Biggyballies]

Honda in demand after ‘multiple F1 teams’ contact

Well, we know of the McLaren connection and rumours but it seems McLaren are not the only one to make contact with Honda. Honda has confirmed contact with “multiple Formula 1 teams” after throwing its hat into the ring for F1’s new engine era in 2026.

But Honda has insisted there are no firm plans in place to make a return.. However F1 electrification is interesting Honda. F1’s route towards carbon neutrality and electrification have forced Honda to reconsider its position and its vows to be carbon neutral by the end of 2030, whilst the complicated and expensive MGU-H element of the hybrid PUs will be removed from 2026 have also influenced Honda.
.
Honda Racing Corporation president Koji Watanabe via a Zoom press briefing.

“After we made the registration we have been contacted by multiple Formula 1 teams,”

“For the time being, we would like to keep a close eye on where Formula 1 is going and just see how things go.

“For now, we don’t have any concrete decisions on whether or not we will be going back to joining Formula 1.

“But we think being part of Formula 1 is going to help us with technological development, so that is where we are.”

"The new system will also run on 100 percent sustainable and synthetic fuels."

“Formula 1 is greatly shifting towards electrification,” said Watanabe.

“Carbon neutrality is our corporate-wide target at Honda, so we think that Formula 1’s future direction is in line with our target.

“That is why we have decided to register as a manufacturer of a power unit.

“We are curious about where Formula 1 is going, being the top racing category, and how that is going to look with more electrification happening

“We would like to keep a very close eye on that.”

They are not saying yes but they certainly are not saying its not likely..... Reading between the lines and they seem to be almost sucked into it purely from the technological challenges and benefit to their core road car business.

Who they will partner is of course going to remain rumours until their actual participation with an engine programme is confirmed, but it seems to be a very strong interest more than that of a casual overseeing of the situation.

[Mike87]

For sure, we will hear about Honda for a long time. But the competition is not far away.

[XcraigX]

Maybe Honda will partner with Porsche?

[Everso Biggyballies]

Not been much news on the post 2026 engine front since the news of Porsche exit from 'the list'.

Until today..... when an associate of a potential team threw their name in as a possible maybe.
Who? Well, they have never really been in F1 before seriously. Yes they have been in by association but not under their own name.

Yes, Im talking General Motors, who under their Cadillac brand are in limbo with the Andretti proposed entry. Its not a definite... the word "could" seems to appear a lot rather than "will"

I have to be honest and take it with many pinches of salt. I cant see it happening given there are a number of manufacturers already in, and not that many teams, even with any potential new teams. For all I know it is propaganda aimed at enhancing the Andretti application . But then I thought that when Andretti started bandying the Cadillac name as a partner.

General Motors evaluating F1 engine programme

General Motors, partner to the Andretti Formula 1 team bid, is evaluating entering the championship as a power unit manufacturer from as early as the 2027 grand prix season.

We know Ford are in, albeit in a more commercial than technical arrangement, tying up with Red Bull Power Trains. Final details of how that will work, whether as a branding exercise we dont know yet, but it seems GM are up for a more technical involvent with their own F1 engine. It might not be for 2026 but they are hinting at 2027.

Ex-McLaren F1 driver Michael Andretti has bolstered the chances of his team proposal being given the green light to enter the series in 2026 after gaining the support of GM sub-brand Cadillac.

But unlike fierce American automotive rival Ford, GM covets a major technical presence in F1.

GM motorsport executive director Eric Warren - formerly the conglomerate's NASCAR programme chief - says that this could result in an F1 engine programme, which is under evaluation.

Speaking exclusively to Autosport, Warren said: "GM is motivated to be involved in the car and design, the whole process. It's not white-labelling an engine [a comment possibly aimed at Ford].

"The interaction between Cadillac and Andretti will be throughout the vehicle."

Should the "strong application" submitted to the FIA from Andretti-Cadillac result in an entry for 2026 - with Hitech and Panthera Asia also interested - the squad will run a customer engine in its first season.

Following the creation of a long-term partnership between Andretti and Wayne Taylor Racing, the outfit now has solid ties to Honda, a listed 2026 power unit manufacturer, via the Acura brand.

However, with Red Bull now developing its own F1 engine, there are doubts about the Japanese firm's topflight future, which would leave Renault as the most credible supply route for Andretti.

But GM will consider its own engine programme for as soon as the 2027 campaign, with Warren explaining: "Looking beyond 2026, our view is that we want to get racing and making sure we are competitive and then look in 2026 at what makes the most sense.

"We could, of course [when asked if GM would construct its own engine].

"We can't by rule because the 2026 power unit manufacturers have been declared, so we would be looking at the earliest in '27.

He added: "It is something we are looking at. We are looking at power units. Andretti has a power unit partner with which we can get racing quickly."

Cadillac already constructs the 5.5-litre naturally aspirated V8 for its LMDh prototype via the GM Performance and Racing Center in Pontiac in Michigan.

Asked if an F1 engine would also be done in-house, Warren said: "I think it is difficult for a manufacturer to say an engine is 100% in-house. They always have technical partners they work with. But I think we have capabilities that would be substantial to that.

"I think we could do that, whether we chose to and what elements, has yet to be determined."

The 2026 engine regulations have notably ditched the expensive and complex Motor Generator Unit – Heat, which has paved the way for Volkswagen Group member Audi to enter via a works engine programme and a majority investment in the Sauber team.

.https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/gener ... /10464990/

[Ruslan]

Yes, I have to keep reminding myself that F1 is about to get bigger and better as I watch the Red Bull's drive away with another championship or two or three.