Future GP's stuff, Hosting Fees and Misc Liberty / GP discussion

[Everso Biggyballies]

Bottom post of the previous page:

About time we saw an F2 rise up to join the ranks. That has not happened for a while.

Hispania /HRT, in essence spawned from Campos Racing, An F3 and GP2 team. IIRC the team was originally accepted as Campos, but to boost their insufficient funding for the project, at the last moment pre their first season in F1 a major shareholding was sold to a Spanish businessman, and as a result what was to be called Campos F1 became Hispania Racing Team (HRT). IIRC Chandok and Senna, the team drivers both DNQ'd / were not granted dispensation to start (way outside the 107% of pole criteria.). They were something like 10 seconds off pole and 4 seconds off the next slowest team ahead of them. They were still last at the next race but were close to the other tailender qualifying times and were allowed to start.

I vaguely remember jokes at the time of their first race something along the lines of their GP2 cars were quicker than their F1 cars. To be fair though I think Campos sold the GP2 side of his business (who became Addax) to finance the initial Campos F1 establishment costs. Maybe it was more that they had the performance of a GP2 car. (Not to be confused with Alonso's famous GP2 engine comment about the Honda engine in his McLaren)

None the less Campos were in 2009 a GP2 and junior Formula Team that for 2010 tried to become an F1 team, though as HRT not Campos.

Yes, remember them. Lasted three seasons. Gave us one of the best commentators on Sky TV (Karun Chandhok), the start of Daniel Ricciardo's career, and the other driver to outqualify Sebastian Vettel (Vitantonia Liuzzi). Of course, when I am thinking of F2 teams that move up... I am thinking Ron Dennis and Project Four Racing.

Just thinking about it and back in the day it was more or less the the standard ladder to F1 team status, with the likes of Cooper, Brabham, March, Tyrrell, others like Lola and even Lotus came via ports car racing. Of course the 'kit car' era of. F1 where the likes of Frank Williams would buy a chassis from say Brabham, March or others, add a Hewland Gearbox, a DFV or prior to that a Coventry Climax, a set of wheels and tyres from wherever etc and enter a Grand Prix. The likes of Lec, Mezario Hesketh and countless others arrived by that low resource method (often running from a dual purpose shed. (Tyrrell started in aa shed not used by the Timber Yard business... Of course Williams itself as a team spawned from that sort of process but in F3 and F2 through to upgrading to F1.

On the subject of the Tyrrel shed from the Tinber yard, that very building now lives on at Goodwood. More on that here viewtopic.php?t=17765#p450137

[Ruslan]

About time we saw an F2 rise up to join the ranks. That has not happened for a while.

Hispania /HRT, in essence spawned from Campos Racing, An F3 and GP2 team. IIRC the team was originally accepted as Campos, but to boost their insufficient funding for the project, at the last moment pre their first season in F1 a major shareholding was sold to a Spanish businessman, and as a result what was to be called Campos F1 became Hispania Racing Team (HRT). IIRC Chandok and Senna, the team drivers both DNQ'd / were not granted dispensation to start (way outside the 107% of pole criteria.). They were something like 10 seconds off pole and 4 seconds off the next slowest team ahead of them. They were still last at the next race but were close to the other tailender qualifying times and were allowed to start.

I vaguely remember jokes at the time of their first race something along the lines of their GP2 cars were quicker than their F1 cars. To be fair though I think Campos sold the GP2 side of his business (who became Addax) to finance the initial Campos F1 establishment costs. Maybe it was more that they had the performance of a GP2 car. (Not to be confused with Alonso's famous GP2 engine comment about the Honda engine in his McLaren)

None the less Campos were in 2009 a GP2 and junior Formula Team that for 2010 tried to become an F1 team, though as HRT not Campos.

Yes, remember them. Lasted three seasons. Gave us one of the best commentators on Sky TV (Karun Chandhok), the start of Daniel Ricciardo's career, and the other driver to outqualify Sebastian Vettel (Vitantonia Liuzzi). Of course, when I am thinking of F2 teams that move up... I am thinking Ron Dennis and Project Four Racing.

Just thinking about it and back in the day it was more or less the the standard ladder to F1 team status, with the likes of Cooper, Brabham, March, Tyrrell, others like Lola and even Lotus came via ports car racing. Of course the 'kit car' era of. F1 where the likes of Frank Williams would buy a chassis from say Brabham, March or others, add a Hewland Gearbox, a DFV or prior to that a Coventry Climax, a set of wheels and tyres from wherever etc and enter a Grand Prix. The likes of Lec, Mezario Hesketh and countless others arrived by that low resource method (often running from a dual purpose shed. (Tyrrell started in aa shed not used by the Timber Yard business... Of course Williams itself as a team spawned from that sort of process but in F3 and F2 through to upgrading to F1.

On the subject of the Tyrrel shed from the Tinber yard, that very building now lives on at Goodwood. More on that here viewtopic.php?t=17765#p450137

In many respects, it was a better process and a better era. I do think that F1 has kind of painted themselves into a corner (thanks to Max and Bernie), and they need to get back to being a more wide-open and competitive racing series.

[Aty]

Steiner reveals concerns over bustling F1 calendar

https://racingnews365.com/steiner-revea ... 1-calendar
In a nutshell, he thinks gruelling schedule (beyond 24 races) will impact hiring.

Really? I do seems to remember the same was said after 18 races increased to 20, then 23...

Quantity over quality.

I am having doubts on my own. Not too long ago I've said 18 races is all what I want, yet it didn't end there. Suddenly it dawn on me last weekend, that I will be content watching European races only (place I live). I don't need more than that. I have certain affinity to Japan, so race at Suzuka is also a special treat for me. I also think Steiner actually has to worry about more than just 24+ races. F1 is a commercial tool, until it isn't. No wonder series is on the market (it was said).

[Michael Ferner]

In many respects, it was a better process and a better era. I do think that F1 has kind of painted themselves into a corner (thanks to Max and Bernie), and they need to get back to being a more wide-open and competitive racing series.

You can't blame THAT one on Verstappen...

[Everso Biggyballies]

This is probably as good a thread as any to post info on how the teams are paid. It has always been a very secretive and hard to fathom out sort of formula, with some teams getting bonuses for how long they have been around, Ferrari getting bonuses for being called Ferrari and then further mystery columns of benefits based on all sorts of things. (I knew Ferrari got a lot for their heritage, but they get an awful lot for it, much more than I thought.)

I cant promise this will make it easier to fathom it all out but it did help me understand more about the way it is all done and indeed it does show who gets what and why.

It also identifies how big the pie is and how the size of the pie is decided.

How F1 prize money is divided

Currently, teams enjoy a $35 million flat payment from F1 for taking part in the championship, a simple $350 million pot split 10 ways.

In addition to that is a performance-linked payment based on their constructors’ finishing position the previous year and some other bonuses for teams who’ve won multiple championships or finished in the top three of the previous year’s championship.

Ferrari also receives a bonus, believed to be five percent of the total prize money fund, which itself is calculated at 45 percent of F1’s forecast income for the current year.

Given Liberty Media is a listed company, its earnings are publicly available. For 2022, it had an income of $2.573 billion.

From that, we know the prize money fund was worth $1.158 billion.

It’s also known that performance-based payments are based on a sliding scale, understood to vary from 14 percent for the championship winner to six percent for the team that finishes 10th.

There is a separate $400 million fund that is split off. How it is distributed is unclear.

Nonetheless, we can calculate with some accuracy what each team earns through prize money.

For instance, with the information available we can estimate Red Bull received $84.4 million in prize money in 2022 as a result of finishing second in the championship in 2021.

Ferrari, which was third, earned $139.2 million after its bonuses were included, while Haas received just $56 million.



It is important to note that while the prize money pot is paid out of the forecast earnings for that season, it is based upon the results of the previous year, meaning last year’s payments, derived from F1’s 2022 income, were made against the results of 2021.

In the first half of this year, F1 is much on par with its 2022 earnings, within one percent, meaning we can roughly forecast the year-end being much the same, too.

Red Bull, which won the 2022 constructors’ championship, will therefore likely pull in $87.6 million.

Ferrari, because it finished second last year, will see its income rise marginally to $142.3 million.

Meanwhile, Williams, which finished 10th in last year’s constructors’ championship, will only receive $59.6 million.

Armed with that information, how does the addition of an 11th team impact prize money payments?

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/10/12/an ... -f1-entry/

It was part of a much longer article about the implications of Andretti but it was the non new team bits relating to current teams payments that interested me.

[Michael Ferner]

Makes Ferrari's performance look even more inept. Gosh, nothing's changed. When I still watched F1, Ferrari was always the team that was miles ahead of everybody else in terms of infrastructure, budget and manpower. You really had to ask yourself, why don't they win every race, or at least every championship. But they hardly ever did, really laughable performance actually for their fabricated image. It appears to be still the same. Must be embarrassing to be a Ferrari fan.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Makes Ferrari's performance look even more inept. Gosh, nothing's changed. When I still watched F1, Ferrari was always the team that was miles ahead of everybody else in terms of infrastructure, budget and manpower. You really had to ask yourself, why don't they win every race, or at least every championship. But they hardly ever did, really laughable performance actually for their fabricated image. It appears to be still the same. Must be embarrassing to be a Ferrari fan.

Exactly.... and they still have not their name engraved on any Championship trophy since Kimi and Massa won them the Constructors in 2008.... Raikkonen won the WDC the year before being the most recent WDC win. They did win the WCC in 2007 as well..... thanks to the McLaren ('Spygate') DSQ from the Championship. (McLaren outscored Ferrari and would have won it without the DSQ)

That their bonus for doing nothing is basically US$58 million higher than any other bonus payment to any other team is embarrassing for them and also F1 / FIA as a whole.

Dismal is a word that springs to mind.

[Everso Biggyballies]

I thought I would add this Joe Saward article here as it is to do with money, Liberty and the current financial growth of F1. I did mention of the article elsewhere with a link but chose to add it here. Some interesting, even mouthwatering, numbers. I was of the understanding Vegas was a bit of a financial let down. Maybe it was for peripheral industry in Vegas, but it seems Liberty did quite well. And will continue to do so.

...... In the meantime, Formula 1’s brilliant financial results have been overshadowed by the salacious tittle-tattle of recent days.

You may recall a few months ago that there were a lot of people around Formula 1 who were bleating about what a disaster the Las Vegas Grand Prix was going to be. I do not suppose that many of these Jonahs will have bothered to take a look at the financial results – but they really should. The full-year results for 2023 were published in the days leading up to Bahrain and they were impressive, with Full Year revenues rising from $2.57 billion in 2022 to $3.22 billion last year. A jump of $650 million, or 25 percent. When one considers the context this is even more impressive than it seems. Last year saw two of the planned 24 races (China and Emilia Romagna) cancelled, which cost the sport a lot of money. In addition, the costs of putting together the new Las Vegas Grand Prix were high (and higher than expected). The impact of Las Vegas was clear in the numbers. The money flowing into F1 in the fourth quarter last year was $1.23 billion, compared to $754 million the previous year. An increase of $476 million (which meant a jump of 63 percent). The key point here is that in 2024 there will be 24 races and the work in Las Vegas has been done. So investment will be less and the revenues will be higher because more people are likely to attend. In other words, there will be another big jump in revenues n 2024.

The teams took $1.2 billion in prize money in 2023, which was 63 percent of the revenues, while Liberty Media’s income from F1 jumped from $239 million in 2022 to $392 million, an increase of 64 percent.

Some folks complain about ticket prices. It is true they are not like they used to be, but attendance figures are up and you don’t see gaps in the grandstands. Liberty Media said that it wanted each Grand Prix to be like a Super Bowl, but it is worth noting that the average ticket of the recent Super Bowl in Las Vegas was $8,600, an astonishing figure, while the average price for the Grand Prix was around $2,000.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2024/03 ... y-weekend/