FIA to start process for new teams to join F1

[PTRACER]

Bottom post of the previous page:

F*** F1 and it's arrogance. Bottom line, "It won't make the FIA any extra money so we reject it."

This is not the BS I wanted to hear just 28 days from the start of the new season, because it's a big FU to all of us as well. This attitude is why myself and so many others were blocked from watching F1 on the official F1 app last year, as paying customers.

[XcraigX]

Sad and disappointed. Not so much for Andretti. But for the state F1 is in right now. It's now openly a self declairing for-profit corporation now. Not a sport.

[MonteCristo]

F*** F1 and it's arrogance. Bottom line, "It won't make the FIA any extra money so we reject it."

But that's the thing. It could make them extra money, and what I alluded to earlier.

Andretti is one of the biggest names in motorsport. People in America would want to get behind a team like that (who the hell is Haas?). And more broadly people around the world would get behind a) the new team b) the Andretti name.

Extra eyes on the screen. Extra ticket sales. Extra merch sales.

[Everso Biggyballies]

So, Formula 1 rejected Andretti's bid by noting that it did not believe the team would be competitive and, therefore, would not add value to the sport.

It also suggested that Andretti would benefit more from its association with F1 than the other way around.

I sort of agree with parts of both points F1 make. I dont think that Andretti have a snowball's chance of being more than a tailender at the start. Its not like they are starting with a Brawn situation. Of course they will struggle given they have so little F1 experience. I also think this will be compounded by this 2025 planned entrance they had.... to build a car and then have to create another car to a complete new set of regulations the following year just sounds crazy to me. All this wind tunnel stuff doent impress me either. The Toyota wind tunnel is outdated. Haas were using that two years ago and said it ws just pissing money don the drain. Hence they use one of the Ferrari ones now.

However the Andretti lack of being competitive not adding value to the sport I dont agree with. As a tailend team they. wont add anything, but with the name Andretti it does add something, particularly to Americans. The name Andretti will add to F1 even if the team they bring doesnt.

Would Andretti benefit more than F1 from their mutual association? Probably, Especially if as I believe (just a hunch nothing concrete) Andretti are way off on what the cost of setting up from scratch will be, especially given the fact they are working on a 200 million dilution fee. That 200 million is obsolete given the surge in team valus of late.

Andretti baulked at paying 200 million for Sauber. The days of the 150/200 million dollar team are now gone. They taalk now of 800 million being the value of even Haas. Look at the Alpine and McLaren shareholdings and what they have done to team valuations with both of them now being officially worth a billion bucks. Dorilton must be laughing all the way to the bank, as would Stroll be, given the price they paid and the current value.

As we know F1 is all about the money and not so much the Sport. And to put it bluntly I dont believe Andretti have enough of it unless they have a raft of middle eastern type investors writing cheques. Im not sure of what GM are physically putting into the Andretti pot financially, but if they are developing an F1 engine from scratch there wont be much left in their budget to prop up Andretti.

Im not anti Andretti. Far from it I would love the Andretti name to be in F1. I just think the start up from scratch way they are proposing is more than a bit deluded. Even taking over an existing team isnt cheap anymore, and that is at least a 3 year jourrney at best. Even if your name is Audi and with the resources they have they are not expecting miracles.

Just my opinion. Oh and there is a lot about the process and the F1 attitude and even their perception I dont like but thats another story....

[PTRACER]

F*** F1 and it's arrogance. Bottom line, "It won't make the FIA any extra money so we reject it."

But that's the thing. It could make them extra money, and what I alluded to earlier.

Andretti is one of the biggest names in motorsport. People in America would want to get behind a team like that (who the hell is Haas?). And more broadly people around the world would get behind a) the new team b) the Andretti name.

Extra eyes on the screen. Extra ticket sales. Extra merch sales.

Yes all those things are true, but all the other teams get a lesser share of the profits and FIA will have to pay 11 teams instead of 10. The only way the FIA could benefit is if Andretti is ultra competitive from Day 1, which the F1 committee has decided is impossible.

The devil on my shoulder is hoping that several teams suddenly collapse just to see the look on the leadership's faces when they realised their exclusive club was a little too exclusive.

[Star]

The devil on my shoulder is hoping that several teams suddenly collapse just to see the look on the leadership's faces when they realised their exclusive club was a little too exclusive.

I'm sort of with you on that and when they ask Andretti to buy a failed team to help them out, he should stick two fingers up to them. I think I would if I was him at this point.

It's a wonder they don't decide the fans are no longer important, what am I saying? They decided that a while back I reckon

[Aty]

So, Formula 1 rejected Andretti's bid by noting that it did not believe the team would be competitive and, therefore, would not add value to the sport.

It also suggested that Andretti would benefit more from its association with F1 than the other way around.

I sort of agree with parts of both points F1 make. I dont think that Andretti have a snowball's chance of being more than a tailender at the start. Its not like they are starting with a Brawn situation. Of course they will struggle given they have so little F1 experience. I also think this will be compounded by this 2025 planned entrance they had.... to build a car and then have to create another car to a complete new set of regulations the following year just sounds crazy to me. All this wind tunnel stuff doent impress me either. The Toyota wind tunnel is outdated. Haas were using that two years ago and said it ws just pissing money don the drain. Hence they use one of the Ferrari ones now.

However the Andretti lack of being competitive not adding value to the sport I dont agree with. As a tailend team they. wont add anything, but with the name Andretti it does add something, particularly to Americans. The name Andretti will add to F1 even if the team they bring doesnt.

Would Andretti benefit more than F1 from their mutual association? Probably, Especially if as I believe (just a hunch nothing concrete) Andretti are way off on what the cost of setting up from scratch will be, especially given the fact they are working on a 200 million dilution fee. That 200 million is obsolete given the surge in team valus of late.

Andretti baulked at paying 200 million for Sauber. The days of the 150/200 million dollar team are now gone. They taalk now of 800 million being the value of even Haas. Look at the Alpine and McLaren shareholdings and what they have done to team valuations with both of them now being officially worth a billion bucks. Dorilton must be laughing all the way to the bank, as would Stroll be, given the price they paid and the current value.

As we know F1 is all about the money and not so much the Sport. And to put it bluntly I dont believe Andretti have enough of it unless they have a raft of middle eastern type investors writing cheques. Im not sure of what GM are physically putting into the Andretti pot financially, but if they are developing an F1 engine from scratch there wont be much left in their budget to prop up Andretti.

Im not anti Andretti. Far from it I would love the Andretti name to be in F1. I just think the start up from scratch way they are proposing is more than a bit deluded. Even taking over an existing team isnt cheap anymore, and that is at least a 3 year jourrney at best. Even if your name is Audi and with the resources they have they are not expecting miracles.

Just my opinion. Oh and there is a lot about the process and the F1 attitude and even their perception I dont like but thats another story....

Regarding US - Steiner (ex Haas) opined that attracting more fans could be achieved even without Andretti by simply having an American driving in a competitive vehicle. Having an American in an American car would be even more attractive to fans in US. Problem is, it's not given Andretti would be successful, and risk of his (potential) failure could do more harm than good. Having a second Haas on the grid could spell disaster. Angry fans is last thing what F1 needs. Michael in distant past had one go at the F1 as a driver, and we know how that ended, if F1 is underestimated in terms of difficulty. For 2028 he needs to rethink his approach. I hope he will.

[Star]

I've been thinking about this. So if I was Andretti my first instinct on reading the statement would be to tell them where to shove themselves. Then, later on, probably much later on when I'd calmed down some, I'd be on the phone to Gene Haas and offering him the chance to name his price.

There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say

[Aty]

I am not sure what would Haas ask for his team, but Andretti is probably not going to pay $800MM for a slot on the grid. Everything else what Haas has is of very little value to him.

I am puzzled by Haas's business strategy. Spending 100MM+ a season and for what? How long he can keep up as such? My opinion means obviously nothing to him, but I think he made a mistake when he had chance to sell for a decent price. He has chance of snow ball in h**l to get into top 10 with his current business model. So, question remains - why, why, why...

[PTRACER]

The devil on my shoulder is hoping that several teams suddenly collapse just to see the look on the leadership's faces when they realised their exclusive club was a little too exclusive.

I'm sort of with you on that and when they ask Andretti to buy a failed team to help them out, he should stick two fingers up to them. I think I would if I was him at this point.

It's a wonder they don't decide the fans are no longer important, what am I saying? They decided that a while back I reckon

Yep. I know it's a nasty thing to say because I don't want to lose teams from F1, but this is the first serious bid in what, 15 years? (2010 was the last time actual new teams joined as far as I'm aware). That's not a positive statistic.

As a fan I definitely don't feel important anymore. I think they're mostly interested in people who AREN'T fans because ignorant people are a little easier to please. As fans we're too demanding..."Please make F1 free/easy to watch on TV. Please make ticket prices and merchandise affordable. Please create a sport where drivers can actually race each other."

[Michael Ferner]

So, Formula 1 rejected Andretti's bid by noting that it did not believe the team would be competitive and, therefore, would not add value to the sport.

Makes total sense to me! There's no way in the world Andretti could ever be as competitive as Team Haas/"We're not ambitious, just thrilled to be part of F1", VisaCash-wotsisname, The Latifi/Sargent Driving School for Hopeless Cases (aka Williams) or Team Kicking.stones.along.the.road.while.waiting.for.Audi.to.finally.begin.writing.cheques This accumulation of value, this paragon of worthiness, this cluster of excellence would only be diluted if Andretti joined the club

[Michael Ferner]

And now F1 have released the fake news that Louis Hamilton will be joining Ferreari next year, simply to drown the frustration of the fans over the Andretti bollocks. Works a treat, too - over at the autosport forum there was a long thread running full of complaints, then a new one started with the LH/Ferrari linkup and the Andretti thread instantly died down!

[Everso Biggyballies]

Yep. I know it's a nasty thing to say because I don't want to lose teams from F1, but this is the first serious bid in what, 15 years? (2010 was the last time actual new teams joined as far as I'm aware). That's not a positive statistic.

Gene Haas would like a word.

He took a couple of years to set up after his application was approved I think in 2014. The plan was originally to race from the start of 2015 but postponed that to 2016. Steiner basically assembled the team and although technically a US based team, based in North Carolina, they also bought the ex Marrusia Factory and contents, I guess from their administrator, and then got into bed with Dallara for the chassis and everything else that could be sourced from Ferrari bought in. Now they have a design office in the Marinello set up, complete with Ferrari staff on secondment, plus a an office and people at Dallara.

They have bumbled along on that basis until now, and the recent departure of Steiner was down to a basic difference of the direction to take. Steiner wanted to spend money on updating their resources, I think focussed on the UK setup, which was basically second rate when they purchased the remnants of Marussia.... its now several years more out of date now. Steiner claimed a lack of investment in infrastructure had been pulling Haas behind, while the likes of Williams and AM have made substantial investments in infrastructure which is in effect allowed albeit in a slightly restricted fashion outside the cost cap. Haas felt they could spend money better in different ways and is dead set on continuing with working even closer with Dallar and Ferrari within the regs...

But yeah Haas actually started racing in 2016, ostensibly as a start up team beyond buying the Marussia factory and contents..

[Aty]

GP247

Couple of men looking angry.

What is going to happen with their investment to-date? People, material, money... There is no point to keep resources for another 4 years (2028).

FiA still wants to talk to Andretti about what's next for them. Andretti actually can race without an agreement (with Liberty). FiA also made clear that reposibility for no deal this time was Liberty's decision.

[PTRACER]

And now F1 have released the fake news that Louis Hamilton will be joining Ferreari next year, simply to drown the frustration of the fans over the Andretti bollocks. Works a treat, too - over at the autosport forum there was a long thread running full of complaints, then a new one started with the LH/Ferrari linkup and the Andretti thread instantly died down!

Well, that's news to me. Good timing of this announcement to take people's minds off of this, eh.

Listening to Martin Brundle give his answer like a politician saying F1 is right, only for him to say later that the 10 current teams don't want to share their slice of the pie (money) 11 ways. That much is obvious. The other point is that this was an F1 decision, not an FIA decision. Andretti can plead to the FIA and maybe the FIA can say something to "F1" to convince them to change their minds. It's not totally over yet.

[PTRACER]

Yep. I know it's a nasty thing to say because I don't want to lose teams from F1, but this is the first serious bid in what, 15 years? (2010 was the last time actual new teams joined as far as I'm aware). That's not a positive statistic.

Gene Haas would like a word.

[snip]

But yeah Haas actually started racing in 2016, ostensibly as a start up team beyond buying the Marussia factory and contents..

A lot of teams on the grid took over the assets of another, either defunct or operational, team. Andretti's is a rare case of starting from scratch, is it not?