Pirelli Tyres.....**F1 set to abandon switch to 16-inch tyres for 2026**

[PTRACER]

Bottom post of the previous page:

What are the odds of Silverstone being wet all weekend so the new slicks never fet to see the Silverstone tarmac?!

Sounds like typical British weather to me

I was reading an article on Motorsport.com (?) earlier, I think it was Gunther Steiner commenting that no one will ever be happy with the tyres. Pirelli have two options - creating a high deg tyre that falls of the cliff and requires multiple pitstops, which nobody was happy with before, or creating a stronger construction that lasts a longer stint but has lower grip and can't be pushed at all, which no one is happy with.

I don't recall tyres ever being such an issue when it was Goodyear, Michelin, Bridgestone etc.

[Everso Biggyballies]

What are the odds of Silverstone being wet all weekend so the new slicks never fet to see the Silverstone tarmac?!

Sounds like typical British weather to me

I was reading an article on Motorsport.com (?) earlier, I think it was Gunther Steiner commenting that no one will ever be happy with the tyres. Pirelli have two options - creating a high deg tyre that falls of the cliff and requires multiple pitstops, which nobody was happy with before, or creating a stronger construction that lasts a longer stint but has lower grip and can't be pushed at all, which no one is happy with.

I don't recall tyres ever being such an issue when it was Goodyear, Michelin, Bridgestone etc.

I think (my belief) is that the FIA / Liberty actually tell Pirelli what they want the tyres to do to add to the show. In other words they believe that creating tyres that dont last, or all have intrinsic weaknesses of either durability / grip creates fan interest. The fact that they are mandated to use two different compounds from 3 choices only adds to my thoughts that it is all 'for the show.'

Its not that Pirelli cant make decent tyres..... look at the tyres they manufacture for Sports car races. They dont have. tyres that lose their grip after 10 laps, or have no performance. They run similar lap times over multiple fuel stops with the same set of tyres. Yes they get a choice of a harder or a soft tyre but it seems that choice is made more by track conditions or temperatures..... cooler track they run softer rubber, hot track harder rubber. It aint rocket science. No one complains in endurance racing or longer races about tyres going over the cliff after 20 or 30 laps.

Much of the tyre issues are 'manufactured' for the show. The teams have a choice. Run hard and make multiple stops, or race at 80% and save rubber. That nasty drive to a 'delta' phrase we hear so often.

[Aty]

Problem is (was?) I think more with FiA and some tire related advisors in ranks of teams. M. Whitmarsh of McLaren as I remember was consulted often by former Pirelli management of F1 division.

FiA usually defaulted on given deadline to issue new specs. Vehicle to have tires developed in conjuction with on-track testing was made available only after a lot of kicking and screaming. Development consequently was rushed and they did best they could. Pirelli didn't look good in mess that ensued.

I'ts supposedly better now. The FIA tire specification for several years required that tires were designed to have a fairly rapid drop-off in performance, encouraging varied tyre strategies and more pit-stops. (Gimmick to mask lack of overtaking?) Recently, about 5 - 6 years back FiA have modified specs for more durable tires.
I am not here as an appointed Pirelli defender, but they took IMO a lot of heat undeservedly. The guy who lead Pirelli in time when tires were failing in the races was moved aside. I think I heard of him acting as "expert" adviser to one of the internet media sites.

[Michael Ferner]

(...) or creating a stronger construction that lasts a longer stint but has lower grip and can't be pushed at all, which no one is happy with.

Sounds good to me!! (And good for F1, so I can't see where's the trouble)

[Michael Ferner]

I'ts supposedly better now. The FIA tire specification for several years required that tires were designed to have a fairly rapid drop-off in performance, encouraging varied tyre strategies and more pit-stops. (Gimmick to mask lack of overtaking?)

No, a gimmick to remove overtaking entirely. Overtaking is bad for F1 image, they want place changing instead of overtaking, so we ended up with pit stops, "strategies" and DRS.

[PTRACER]

(...) or creating a stronger construction that lasts a longer stint but has lower grip and can't be pushed at all, which no one is happy with.

Sounds good to me!! (And good for F1, so I can't see where's the trouble)

Why would you want that?

[PTRACER]

I'ts supposedly better now. The FIA tire specification for several years required that tires were designed to have a fairly rapid drop-off in performance, encouraging varied tyre strategies and more pit-stops. (Gimmick to mask lack of overtaking?)

No, a gimmick to remove overtaking entirely. Overtaking is bad for F1 image, they want place changing instead of overtaking, so we ended up with pit stops, "strategies" and DRS.

Some people would argue its semantics but that is a great way of putting it.

A bad race = a race with no overtakes.

They should replace the word "overtakes" with "action". One car swapping with another on a straight because he pushed a button is not action. An on-track battle, a collision, a spin into the gravel, a dodgy pitstop...That is action. That's what F1 needs more of. I don't understand why F1 became so fixated on the 'O' word specifically.

[Michael Ferner]

(...) or creating a stronger construction that lasts a longer stint but has lower grip and can't be pushed at all, which no one is happy with.

Sounds good to me!! (And good for F1, so I can't see where's the trouble)

Why would you want that?

Because I like racing?!? Low grip, cars to be pushed to the limit, resulting in many *real* overtakes (as opposed to manufactured passing), what's not to like? It's basically the way it was when I fell in love with F1.

[erwin greven]

Some people would argue its semantics but that is a great way of putting it.

A bad race = a race with no overtakes.

They should replace the word "overtakes" with "action". One car swapping with another on a straight because he pushed a button is not action. An on-track battle, a collision, a spin into the gravel, a dodgy pitstop...That is action. That's what F1 needs more of. I don't understand why F1 became so fixated on the 'O' word specifically.

The amount of overtakes is what Liberty Media loves. Its the American thing. Why do they call the Indy500 the greatest spectacle... Many overtakes.
Not that it makes a lot of difference to us.

[Everso Biggyballies]

One for the "You couldnt make it up" file

I would have put this in the Imola preview thread but I have not yet finished it. I have got to the weather forecast and....

As most of you will now be aware, Imola is under threat due to flooding and abnormal rainfall expected this week and potentially into the weekend.
Anyway I thought it somewhat ironic in the timing for Pirrelli to announce they are reducing slick tyres and introducing new wets.... As it news to do with tyres I will post it here in the tyre thread.....


Today Pirelli have announced they are trialling new wets this (Imola) weekend....

..... and also to assist sustainability are reducing the number of slicks allocated to each team. There is also a new tyre related qualifying rule that mandates every compound of slick to be used during qualifying.


Pirelli to test new qualifying rule and introduce new wet compound at Imola to improve sustainability

Teams will have two fewer sets of slick tyres to use over the 2023 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix weekend as part of an innovation introduced by Pirelli, with a view to improving sustainability.


Pirelli are testing a new rule that mandates the use of every tyre compound in qualifying. This regulation change also reduces the amount of slick tyres that drivers are allocated – from 13 to 11 sets – over the weekend.

In dry conditions, drivers will be obliged to use hard tyres in Q1, mediums in Q2 and softs in Q3. The allocations are also changing from the previous provision of:

8 sets of softs
3 sets of mediums
2 sets of hards


Drivers will now be provided with:

4 sets of softs
4 sets of mediums
3 sets of hards

“At Imola we will be testing a new regulation that requires teams to use a different type of compound for each of the three sessions,” said Pirelli Motorsport Director Mario Isola.

“[There will also be] a reduction – from 13 to 11 – of the sets of dry tyres that each driver has available for the entire event, therefore decreasing the environmental impact generated by the production and transport of the tyres.”


Pirelli will also bring new wet tyres to Imola

Pirelli are also introducing a new full wet tyre compound for the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix, similarly seeking to improve sustainability as they avoid the use of electric tyre blankets, with the objective to eliminate thermal blankets by 2024.

"Also with the same end in mind, starting with this Grand Prix a new compound for [wet tyres] will be introduced that will not require the use of thermal blankets before being used," added Isola. "Track tests have shown even better performance than the previous Cinturato Blue Full Wet, even without electrically heating the [tyre]. This is a first concrete step, the result of studies carried out by Pirelli, toward the use of dry [tyres] without preheating as well."

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... GOUzc.html

[Everso Biggyballies]

FIA launches F1 tyre supply tender from 2025

The FIA has launched an invitation to tyre manufacturers to apply for the exclusive Formula 1 supply deal that will commence in 2025 and potentially last for four seasons.

It doesnt mean Pirelli are throwing in the towel, or that we are maybe going to get another era of Tyre Wars with a repeat of Bridgestone v Michelin that we had through to the mid noughties, followed by a few years of just Bridgestone before we went to Pirelli as the exclusive provider in 2011. Over a decade later and they are still in that monopoly situation.

The current deal expires end 2024 so we are tendering for 2025 onwards, until 2028 with an option to the supplier at that time to extend

<snip>

Who else might be interested in throwing their hat in the ring. I have to be honest and admit I am not well versed what manufacturers own what brands nowadays.... other than I know Bridgestone owns Firestone and Cooper own Avon.

UPDATE

OK Pirelli might have competion...

Pirelli set for F1 tyre tender challenge as Bridgestone talk ramps up

Pirelli looks set to face competition for the official FIA tender contract from 2025 amid suggestions that Bridgestone has made a bid.

Earlier this year, the FIA opened up the tender process for F1's official supply contract from 2025 to 2027, with the possibility of it being extended until 2028.

The deadline for applicants was May 15, with the FIA now going through the process of evaluating the proposals from interested parties before making a call on who the approved bidders are on 16 June.

The successful candidates will then move on to the next stage of the process, which will include discussions with F1's commercial rights holder.

The last tyre tender process, from 2020 to 2023, saw Pirelli face a challenge from South Korean company Hankook.

Pirelli was then granted a one-year extension until the end of 2024 due to the delays in the introduction of new technical regulations prompted by the COVID pandemic.

With the deadline for applicants for the 2025-2027 tender having passed, it is understood that Pirelli is not alone in having put in a bid for the new tyre contract.

And while there has been no confirmation from the FIA about the number of candidates nor their identity, sources have suggested that Japanese company Bridgestone has applied.


Bridgestone was last involved in F1 from 1997 to 2010 and had been the single supplier from 2007 onwards following the decision of Michelin to quit the championship at the end of 2006.

Since leaving F1, Bridgestone has remained involved in major Japanese categories as well as other international series. Its Firestone brand is the sole supplier of IndyCar.

Bridgestone's manager of motorsports planning Eiichi Suzuki said that the company was evaluating involvement in other series, including F1.

"We are always thinking about what and how we can best supply our motorsports activities in global categories, including F1," he said. "Of course, we are conducting research on such matters."

Bridgestone itself has, however, declined to confirm whether or not that interest has extended to it formally applying for the tyre tender contract.

A spokesperson for the company said: "Bridgestone has a heritage of over 60 years in motorsports and we will continue to pursue sustainable global motorsports activities. However, we refrain from commenting on any particular categories."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... /10479182/

[Michael Ferner]

Who else might be interested in throwing their hat in the ring. I have to be honest and admit I am not well versed what manufacturers own what brands nowadays.... other than I know Bridgestone owns Firestone and Cooper own Avon.

Durex? They make rubber products as well, don't they?

[Everso Biggyballies]

Who else might be interested in throwing their hat in the ring. I have to be honest and admit I am not well versed what manufacturers own what brands nowadays.... other than I know Bridgestone owns Firestone and Cooper own Avon.

Durex? They make rubber products as well, don't they?

Hehehe I remember well in the year they sponsored an F1 car (Surtees?) I used to work in London opposite Great Portland Station (would be 1976)..... there was a huge billboard ad in the street which had an image of the F1 car with the heading "Durex, the small family car"

I know at one of the UK early season non championship F1 races the BBC got very upset about it and possibly even canned their coverage. I cant remember exactly

[Everso Biggyballies]

F1 could ditch 18-inch wheels for 2026 in bid to drop car weight

They are talking about ditching the 18" Tyre for 2026 in an effort to reduce weight on the heaviest, most overweight F1 cars ever

F1 honchos have been saying for ever that the one must-do element of new rules for 2026 is dropping car weight.

While work continues on the all-new active aerodynamics that will be needed to complement the latest generation of F1 turbo hybrid engines, a major wish to change the trend for ever-heavier cars has emerged at all levels, drivers teams and officials.

Speaking last month, the FIA’s head of single seaters Nikolas Tombazis pointed out that a 50kg reduction target had been set – which would include a change to F1 wheel size.

"With the dimensions of the wheels, which will be narrower, plus with the rear wing and the car in general, we aim to reduce the weight of the cars by around 50kg," he said.

"So, it will be possible to see smaller single-seater cars: shorter and narrower. But we are talking about solutions that still need to be discussed.

"With the car on a diet, we will be able to reduce the cornering speeds a bit. Being lighter, they will go faster in a straight line, but will generate less aerodynamic load. So, we will need to increase the hybrid's energy recovery to ensure adequate lap performance."

Others say he is dreaming thinking 50kg reductions. Pat Symonds said recently that the 50kg weight reduction was a tad optimistic – with a 20kg reduction much more realistic.

But the discussions around wheel size being narrower is intriguing , because tyres being reduced from their current width (the front slick is 305mm wide, while the rear is 405mm) would have performance implications.

Narrower tyres will help reduce drag, which is one of the areas where F1 wants to push hard because of the drop in power that is anticipated from the 2026 power unit regulations.

However, being less wide, there is a smaller tyre footprint of rubber on the track for cornering, which translates to less mechanical grip and therefore a drop in performance.

Perhaps a better way would be to change tyre size entirely and move away from the 18-inch wheels that have been a part of F1 for the ground effect era. The change in tyre size for 2022 was estimated to have added an extra 14kg in weight to the cars – mostly because of the increased rim size.

A return to the 13-inch wheels that were common until 2021 is not thought to be on the cards, but a good compromise could be 16-inch wheels.

The smaller wheels would not only be lighter, but would help offer a new aesthetic to the cars which are expected to look quite different.

ANyway, it seems the 18" wheels are potentially on the way out.

[DoubleFart]

16in is far more relevant to road cars, and that is the BS reasoning they always have...

[erwin greven]