The Max Verstappen Thread

[Everso Biggyballies]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Mr. Horner inherited Mr. Newey. He should be very careful throwing stones around.

For the sake of facts Horner did not inherit Newey.

Horner was part of the Jaguar takeover by Red Bull back at the end of 2004 '/ early '05. and the operating as TP in those initial days of Red Bull Racing

For 2006 Horner, then the youngest ever Team Principal in F1, persuaded Newey to leave McLaren where he had successfully won multiple titles as he had done at Williams, and join the fledgling Red Bull organisation. History shows this to have been the most critical appointment Red Bull Racing ever made.... Vettel would no doubt not have had the career he enjoyed, nor Max currently, without the skills of Newey producing the cars that they have successfully driven..

So credit to Horner for a choosing to try and lure Newey away from the at the time mighty McLaren Empire. That he managed to lureNewey away from McLaren and then keep such an influential and no doubt still the most in demand person in pitlane, still controlling the designs and abilities of the Red Bull cars some near 2 decades later is something Horner must be given credit for.

Regardless of whether I like the man or not he deserves that credit. Likewise Wolff who I equally dislike, does at least get my respect for his part in steering and controlling the fortunes of Mercedes F1. (Even though the perhaps mosst important recruit for Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton, was secured and enticed to join Mercedes by the late great Niki Lauda. (RIP Niki )

[Aty]

Mr. Horner inherited Mr. Newey. He should be very careful throwing stones around.

For the sake of facts Horner did not inherit Newey.

Horner was part of the Jaguar takeover by Red Bull back at the end of 2004 '/ early '05. and the operating as TP in those initial days of Red Bull Racing

For 2006 Horner, then the youngest ever Team Principal in F1, persuaded Newey to leave McLaren where he had successfully won multiple titles as he had done at Williams, and join the fledgling Red Bull organisation. History shows this to have been the most critical appointment Red Bull Racing ever made.... Vettel would no doubt not have had the career he enjoyed, nor Max currently, without the skills of Newey producing the cars that they have successfully driven..

So credit to Horner for a choosing to try and lure Newey away from the at the time mighty McLaren Empire. That he managed to lureNewey away from McLaren and then keep such an influential and no doubt still the most in demand person in pitlane, still controlling the designs and abilities of the Red Bull cars some near 2 decades later is something Horner must be given credit for.

Regardless of whether I like the man or not he deserves that credit. Likewise Wolff who I equally dislike, does at least get my respect for his part in steering and controlling the fortunes of Mercedes F1. (Even though the perhaps mosst important recruit for Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton, was secured and enticed to join Mercedes by the late great Niki Lauda. (RIP Niki )

Semantics. Point is, both, Horner and Wolf alike built their fame and fortunes on back of someone else. Horner's rhetoric is increasingly hard to swallow.

[erwin greven]

Mr. Horner inherited Mr. Newey. He should be very careful throwing stones around.

For the sake of facts Horner did not inherit Newey.

Horner was part of the Jaguar takeover by Red Bull back at the end of 2004 '/ early '05. and the operating as TP in those initial days of Red Bull Racing

For 2006 Horner, then the youngest ever Team Principal in F1, persuaded Newey to leave McLaren where he had successfully won multiple titles as he had done at Williams, and join the fledgling Red Bull organisation. History shows this to have been the most critical appointment Red Bull Racing ever made.... Vettel would no doubt not have had the career he enjoyed, nor Max currently, without the skills of Newey producing the cars that they have successfully driven..

So credit to Horner for a choosing to try and lure Newey away from the at the time mighty McLaren Empire. That he managed to lureNewey away from McLaren and then keep such an influential and no doubt still the most in demand person in pitlane, still controlling the designs and abilities of the Red Bull cars some near 2 decades later is something Horner must be given credit for.

Regardless of whether I like the man or not he deserves that credit. Likewise Wolff who I equally dislike, does at least get my respect for his part in steering and controlling the fortunes of Mercedes F1. (Even though the perhaps mosst important recruit for Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton, was secured and enticed to join Mercedes by the late great Niki Lauda. (RIP Niki )

Actually it was not that difficult to lure Newey away from McLaren. The relation between Dennis and Newey was pretty bad in those days. And starting at Red Bull Racing was very lucrative. Jaguar Ford was in shambles. Ideal to rebuild it.

[Michael Ferner]

Mr. Horner inherited Mr. Newey. He should be very careful throwing stones around.

For the sake of facts Horner did not inherit Newey.

Horner was part of the Jaguar takeover by Red Bull back at the end of 2004 '/ early '05. and the operating as TP in those initial days of Red Bull Racing

For 2006 Horner, then the youngest ever Team Principal in F1, persuaded Newey to leave McLaren where he had successfully won multiple titles as he had done at Williams, and join the fledgling Red Bull organisation. History shows this to have been the most critical appointment Red Bull Racing ever made.... Vettel would no doubt not have had the career he enjoyed, nor Max currently, without the skills of Newey producing the cars that they have successfully driven..

So credit to Horner for a choosing to try and lure Newey away from the at the time mighty McLaren Empire. That he managed to lureNewey away from McLaren and then keep such an influential and no doubt still the most in demand person in pitlane, still controlling the designs and abilities of the Red Bull cars some near 2 decades later is something Horner must be given credit for.

Regardless of whether I like the man or not he deserves that credit. Likewise Wolff who I equally dislike, does at least get my respect for his part in steering and controlling the fortunes of Mercedes F1. (Even though the perhaps mosst important recruit for Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton, was secured and enticed to join Mercedes by the late great Niki Lauda. (RIP Niki )

Semantics. Point is, both, Horner and Wolf alike built their fame and fortunes on back of someone else. Horner's rhetoric is increasingly hard to swallow.

Semantics? So, what in your esteemed opinion is the job description of a team principal?

[Aty]

Mr. Horner inherited Mr. Newey. He should be very careful throwing stones around.

For the sake of facts Horner did not inherit Newey.

Horner was part of the Jaguar takeover by Red Bull back at the end of 2004 '/ early '05. and the operating as TP in those initial days of Red Bull Racing

For 2006 Horner, then the youngest ever Team Principal in F1, persuaded Newey to leave McLaren where he had successfully won multiple titles as he had done at Williams, and join the fledgling Red Bull organisation. History shows this to have been the most critical appointment Red Bull Racing ever made.... Vettel would no doubt not have had the career he enjoyed, nor Max currently, without the skills of Newey producing the cars that they have successfully driven..

So credit to Horner for a choosing to try and lure Newey away from the at the time mighty McLaren Empire. That he managed to lureNewey away from McLaren and then keep such an influential and no doubt still the most in demand person in pitlane, still controlling the designs and abilities of the Red Bull cars some near 2 decades later is something Horner must be given credit for.

Regardless of whether I like the man or not he deserves that credit. Likewise Wolff who I equally dislike, does at least get my respect for his part in steering and controlling the fortunes of Mercedes F1. (Even though the perhaps mosst important recruit for Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton, was secured and enticed to join Mercedes by the late great Niki Lauda. (RIP Niki )

Semantics. Point is, both, Horner and Wolf alike built their fame and fortunes on back of someone else. Horner's rhetoric is increasingly hard to swallow.

So, what in your esteemed opinion is the job description of a team principal?

Steer the ship.

[DoubleFart]

Horner did way more to develop that team than Wolff ever did at Mercedes.

Also, in defence of Horner, at least he's unapologetically an asshole to the world, and doesn't care. Unlike Toto who spent years hiding that side of him.

I say that in a positive way, because I do believe that to be the best in that kind of role you do need to be a sneaky, underhand and devious character.

[Aty]

F1 is never still in development. I have my issues with Toto, but to claim that after all those years (7?) he lived merely on coctails of the past might be unfair to him. Horner (with Newey next to him) accusing Toto not knowing how the F1 works crossed a red line of decent conversation. Just pile of refuse.

[Aty]

Of Verstappen’s and Red Bull’s achievement, Brundle wrote: “What an achievement to faultlessly keep up that level of performance and reliability on many different track layouts and in varying weather conditions, up against mighty opposition. Congratulations to each and every one of them.

GP247

For once I can agree with Brundle on that. I think we are witnessing something big which will be written into history of the sport. For some it will take time to admit it, whilst for appreciation it will be too late. Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, and now Verstappen. Exalted line up of truly greats. (Maybe Alonso should be added, but I don't know, and I am not convinced.)

[MonteCristo]

Of Verstappen’s and Red Bull’s achievement, Brundle wrote: “What an achievement to faultlessly keep up that level of performance and reliability on many different track layouts and in varying weather conditions, up against mighty opposition. Congratulations to each and every one of them.

GP247

For once I can agree with Brundle on that. I think we are witnessing something big which will be written into history of the sport. For some it will take time to admit it, whilst for appreciation it will be too late. Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, and now Verstappen. Exalted line up of truly greats. (Maybe Alonso should be added, but I don't know, and I am not convinced.)

Always hard to say how good someone is when they have the fastest car. But all you can do is first beat your teammate (tick - easily) and then everyone else (double tick - way too easily).

He's removed a lot of the stupid, sometimes dangerous, moves he made when he was younger.

And it's hard to say if he's taking it that easy that he's removed the smaller errors that most other drivers do when they're pushed.

Either way, he's doing all he needs to. Can't fault his driving.

[Aty]

Of Verstappen’s and Red Bull’s achievement, Brundle wrote: “What an achievement to faultlessly keep up that level of performance and reliability on many different track layouts and in varying weather conditions, up against mighty opposition. Congratulations to each and every one of them.

GP247

For once I can agree with Brundle on that. I think we are witnessing something big which will be written into history of the sport. For some it will take time to admit it, whilst for appreciation it will be too late. Prost, Schumacher, Vettel, and now Verstappen. Exalted line up of truly greats. (Maybe Alonso should be added, but I don't know, and I am not convinced.)

Always hard to say how good someone is when they have the fastest car. But all you can do is first beat your teammate (tick - easily) and then everyone else (double tick - way too easily).

He's removed a lot of the stupid, sometimes dangerous, moves he made when he was younger.

And it's hard to say if he's taking it that easy that he's removed the smaller errors that most other drivers do when they're pushed.

Either way, he's doing all he needs to. Can't fault his driving.

We all were once young, and not always behaved properly or made smart decisions. In early races for what (nasty) he did to Vettel I was calling for dragging him to Hauge, and throw a key away for life. (A contract on his head was not available as an option.) But, it was then, and it is now. He grew up. I am still not his fan (the same way I was with Vettel), but I do respect and admire where he is now. Brundle actually put it more eloquently.

[Aty]

Perez speaking about his teammate:

"At the level that he is driving at the moment, it's extreme.
"I think the ability he has to perform at his 100 per cent every single weekend, no matter which conditions he's driving [in].
"It's something that's quite hard to see, as his teammate.
"It doesn’t really matter what's happened, whether we have a good margin or bad margins or the car is becoming difficult.
"He's been able to extract 100 per cent out of himself and the car pretty much every weekend."

RN365

Nothing more, nothing less.

[XcraigX]

I’m a bit at a loss as to why Toto and Lewis thought they needed to chime in instead of just congratulating Max and moving on. I suspect some very creative press editing (where they ask an unfair question and make it seem like the interviewee just made the comment out of the blue).
In any case, Button responded with a very mature answer and I agree with his opinion.

https://wtf1.com/post/buttons-insightfu ... tid=Zxz2cZ

[erwin greven]

The whole interview about Max.

[Aty]

Effort to find some blemishes on Verstappen's accomplishments is relentless. I don't recall something like that was going on in 2014. Admittedly FiA designed system was in doghouse (as early as mid-summer of 2014, location - my house), but not Hamilton personally. That started later when he was promoted into GOAT level, and he took it without blink of his eyelid.

[MonteCristo]

Not sure what the fuss is.

Hamilton's had Button, Alonso, Rosberg as teammates - all WDCs.

Verstappen's had Sainz, Ricciardo, Albon, Gasly, Perez - race winners, but not WDCs (yet at least... though I can't see any of them getting one). I think it's pretty easy to say he's had it easier in terms of who he has come up against.

But like I said earlier - all Verstappen can do is beat them. And he has/is. All he can do is beat the rest of the opposition. And in the last two and a half years he has/is.

[erwin greven]