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Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 21:12 pm
by Everso Biggyballies

Bottom post of the previous page:

White six wrote: 2 years ago At the risk of sounding like I'm defending bottas do we now give penalities to drivers for locking up?
Not necessarily..... but we do for negligence and incompetence. It was wet, cars in front were stopping, he didnt by a margin and his error was enough to take out a few cars. Same with Stroll. If it was RoGro he would have been banned. As he was at Spa a few years ago for the same sort of error (ok on a slightly larger scale! :wink: )

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 21:20 pm
by Everso Biggyballies
Vettel DSQ'd for not enough fuel

Sebastian Vettel has been disqualified from the Hungarian Grand Prix for failing to provide a sufficient fuel sample after the race......
Technical delegate Jo Bauer therefore referred the matter to the stewards, stating that "only a 0.3 litre sample" of fuel was able to be extracted from the car.

That was in breach with Article 6.6.2 of the 2021 Formula One Technical Regulations, which says that "competitors must ensure that a 1.0 litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the event".

Afterwards Aston Martin attempted to extract the required one litre sample under the FIA's supervision, but it failed to do so, earning Vettel a disqualification.

In their verdict, issued at 10pm local time, the FIA stewards noted: "The team was given several opportunities to attempt to remove the required amount of fuel from the tank, however it was only possible to pump 0.3 litres out.

"During the hearing in presence of the FIA Technical Delegate and the FIA Technical Director, the team principal of Aston Martin stated that there must be 1.44 litres left in the tank, but they are not able to get it out. This figure is calculated using the FFM or injector model.

"Given this situation, car No. 5 is not in compliance with the requirements of Art. 6.6 FIA Technical Regulations. According to Art. 6.6.2 competitors must ensure that a 1.0 litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time. The procedure was followed however the 1.0 litre sample of fuel was unable to be taken."

Aston Martin have the right to appeal the stewards' decision but it is not yet clear if they will do so.

The decision is a boost for Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton in his title fight against Red Bull's Max Verstappen as he moves up from third to second and increases his championship lead from six to eight points, Verstappen also scoring an extra point by moving up to ninth.

Ferrari's Carlos Sainz Jr inherits the final spot on the podium, while Williams duo Nicholas Latifi and George Russell also massively benefits by each scoring two extra points, taking the team's total to 10.

Alfa Romeo's Kimi Raikkonen moves up to 10th to take the final point.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/vette ... e/6640811/

No word about Russell.... maybe they were able to get a bit more out.

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 21:34 pm
by Everso Biggyballies
Apparently only the top 3 are automatically checked for fuel samples post race so George may get away with it. (Others not in top 3 are random selection)

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 21:37 pm
by White six
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago At the risk of sounding like I'm defending bottas do we now give penalities to drivers for locking up?
Not necessarily..... but we do for negligence and incompetence. It was wet, cars in front were stopping, he didnt by a margin and his error was enough to take out a few cars. Same with Stroll. If it was RoGro he would have been banned. As he was at Spa a few years ago for the same sort of error (ok on a slightly larger scale! :wink: )
It did remind me of most of my starts on the F1 game :)

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 21:44 pm
by Picci
That really sucks.

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 21:52 pm
by White six
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago Apparently only the top 3 are automatically checked for fuel samples post race so George may get away with it. (Others not in top 3 are random selection)
Fueled for a wet race maybe?

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 22:00 pm
by hollie3sa
What's the reasoning behind the necessity to provide a certain amount of fuel after a race?

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 22:06 pm
by XcraigX
Vettel's disqualification is disheartening. I was so happy to see him looking more like his old self. In fact this entire year he has been more like his old self. Shows you how badly Ferrari grind their drivers down.
hollie3sa wrote: 2 years ago What's the reasoning behind the necessity to provide a certain amount of fuel after a race?
The teams have different fuel suppliers (example: Ferrari have an exclusive contract with Shell) and the fuel used must be tested to meet a certain minimum standard to ensure fairness. There are some additives allowed and some not, but I can't tell you which is which. I know it needs to meet a max Octane at least.

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:01 pm
by DoubleFart
Teams were basically using rocket fuel years back before controls right?

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:35 pm
by White six
300ml is enough to test. 50ml would be enough to test. Rule needs looking at

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:37 pm
by White six
DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Teams were basically using rocket fuel years back before controls right?
Brabham is the usual target of accusation. Things were different then, it was called progress :)

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:37 pm
by MonteCristo
Picci wrote: 2 years ago Well after that race there are things to reflect on.

I think the FiA definitely didn’t like the way no one bar Hamilton took to the grid at the restart. They’ll probably introduce some sort of system where there’ll be two SC-led laps whenever there are changes in track conditions and then get drivers to commit to their tyres on the grid.
What I don't get is why none of them changed tyres during the red.

I mean, you can do anything you want to the car then!

And clearly the track was practically dry already after the totally unnecessary and drawn out red...

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 23:40 pm
by White six
XcraigX wrote: 2 years ago Vettel's disqualification is disheartening. I was so happy to see him looking more like his old self. In fact this entire year he has been more like his old self. Shows you how badly Ferrari grind their drivers down.
hollie3sa wrote: 2 years ago What's the reasoning behind the necessity to provide a certain amount of fuel after a race?
The teams have different fuel suppliers (example: Ferrari have an exclusive contract with Shell) and the fuel used must be tested to meet a certain minimum standard to ensure fairness. There are some additives allowed and some not, but I can't tell you which is which. I know it needs to meet a max Octane at least.
A moral victory anyway. Good to see, people seemed to think 4 world titles was some kind of fluke

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 00:22 am
by MonteCristo
hollie3sa wrote: 2 years ago What's the reasoning behind the necessity to provide a certain amount of fuel after a race?
And what's the reasoning behind only selecting certain cars for tests as well? What if P2 is later disqualified, and P4 is moved up to P3 after the fact but wasn't tested - and was otherwise also illegal?

F1's a mess.

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 00:23 am
by MonteCristo
White six wrote: 2 years ago
XcraigX wrote: 2 years ago Vettel's disqualification is disheartening. I was so happy to see him looking more like his old self. In fact this entire year he has been more like his old self. Shows you how badly Ferrari grind their drivers down.
hollie3sa wrote: 2 years ago What's the reasoning behind the necessity to provide a certain amount of fuel after a race?
The teams have different fuel suppliers (example: Ferrari have an exclusive contract with Shell) and the fuel used must be tested to meet a certain minimum standard to ensure fairness. There are some additives allowed and some not, but I can't tell you which is which. I know it needs to meet a max Octane at least.
A moral victory anyway. Good to see, people seemed to think 4 world titles was some kind of fluke
Let the record books show that he finished down with Stroll :P.

Dad will be happy about that! :tongue:

Re: 2021 Max v Lewis Hungry for more Hungarian GP

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 03:46 am
by Ruslan
Waited until later in the day to comment on this one.

1. Ocon - Well, I was real big fan of this guy's driving back in 2018. I felt he should have replaced Bottas at Mercedes for 2019. Instead he took the year off and when he showed up at Renault in 2020...he didn't look like the same driver. Didn't for most of this season either until they changed chassis for him. Suddenly he looks a whole lot better. Looked a whole lot better today. Suspect he has finally got his "mojo" back. Expect a lot more from him now.

Overall, I have been amazed this season how much these guys are affected by set-up issues, getting used to new cars, mood changes, team environments, etc.

2) - Vettel. Sad end to a decent race. Still, could not pass Ocon with a better car. He did nicely complement Ocon's driving, saying he never put a wheel wrong. Shame he got disqualified, but those are the regulations, and they are there for a reason.

2. Hamilton - actually pretty mediocre race from him. Got held up forever by Gasly. If it was not for that, he would have won. Then he got held up by Alonso with what was a truly entertaining fight. The shocker was the superior speed of the car. Newey said it is because Mercedes has found more power. If Mercedes has found more power, and it is enough to give them at least 0.2 second advantage at Hungaroring.... then what kind of advantage will Mercedes have at the next races? Has Mercedes yet again won the development battle?

3. Sainz - I actually don't remember his drive.

4. Alonso - truly entertaining. Eventually got beat by Hamilton, but a pretty hard and clean fight. He is a true master.

5. Gasly - So is everyone now going to need a junior team to make sure they can take the fastest lap from their main competitors?

6. Yuki - not as entertaining when driving responsibly.

R Bottas - Bone-headed mistake, not that every F1 driver has not made 2 or more similar mistakes in their career. Did manage to take out 5 other cars. I am sure he is going to get more heat than he deserves for this one because of who he took out. Penalty was reasonable.

R Stroll - his mistake looked even worse, but only took out two other cars.

The Hamilton one-car grid start: truly weird. Not sure I blame Hamilton much for this one, it was just a really strange situation.

The Driver Championship: Does Mercedes have the better car now? Have they done so by picking up a few kilowatts, as Newey claims?

Team Championship: starting to sort itself out as I expected (Ferrari over McLaren and Alpine 5th).

Still 11 or 12 races to the season. We have only reached the half-way point.