Big meeting regarding engines this weekend feat. Porsche and Audi

[Everso Biggyballies]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Red Bull and Volkswagen group have strong ties. I fully expect it to be a tie up between the two if it happens at all. If.

Autocar have written of discussions with both McLaren and Red BUll. It seems things are hotting up and certainly Red Bull as we picked are in there, but maybe also McLaren as well ...... with potential VAG stakes in either or both teams.

According to Autocar, there are ongoing discussions between Audi and McLaren, Audi and Red Bull surrounding the prospect of a partnership, potentially with equity stakes in each respective race team. Whether VW intends to double down and enter Porsche in tandem is another question mark. All we know is that any scenario will require considerable time. The earliest you’ll see those four iconic rings on an F1 livery – or the unmistakable horse crest – will be 2026 (when the incoming regulations are implemented).

Volkswagen Group Audi F1 Porsche F1 Formula 1
Previously, several parties – present company included – believed Porsche was the frontrunner to represent Volkswagen Group in Formula 1, not Audi. Insiders revealed Porsche was extremely interested in a full-package deal – but the door has been left wide open for an entry via alternative avenues.

As many of you may be aware, as of the most recent season’s conclusion, Honda has formally exited from F1. And while Red Bull has acquired the intellectual property and all those precious technical blueprints from Honda, it wouldn’t hurt to find another experienced engine manufacturer to maintain an edge over Mercedes. Plus there’s no reason why other teams like past collaborator McLaren wouldn’t be interested in a Porsche power unit, either.

“Partnering with Red Bull appears to be the most obvious route to F1 glory. And the flames of paddock gossip has only been fanned in recent months,” we reported several months ago.

A bit of an update from Zak Brown on what he knows , has heard, and the situation with McLaren and any association with VAG.
In essence he says the obvious in terms of avoiding his own/ Macca's position beingthat they are happy with and are contracted to Mercedes until the new engines are introduced. So he is playing down any McLaren tie up with VAG and is indeed placing the deal to be with Red Bull and with the Porsche brand.....Will VW come to F1?

Will VW come to F1?

The Volkswagen Group is considering whether to make an F1 entry but Brown rejected claims that McLaren had agreed a deal with the German giant.

Instead, he said he believed VW's Porsche brand would enter F1 in partnership with Red Bull.

"I'm hearing they are going to do something with Red Bull on the Porsche front," Brown said.

He said McLaren had spoken to VAG about F1 but said the team were committed to engine supplier Mercedes until the end of the current power-unit regulations in 2025.

"They've spoken with a handful of people on the grid, and we had conversations," Brown said. "But in the short term and medium term we are very happy where we are.

"So we are just going to wait and see are they going to come into the sport, because that's not been definitively decided.

"If they do, we have a contract through this term and naturally we're going to evaluate where we are and take a decision on what we do in 2026 in due course."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60036659. (This part of the article is the last part of the article linked.)

[Everso Biggyballies]

Forgot to mention in the post above re the likelihood of a Porsche Red Bull tie-up as a similar sort of deal they had with Honda. ie a quasi works deal. The way Zak was talking sort of (with the very big IF at this stage) implied that if VAG was to push the F1 button it leaves it open that perhaps Red Bull might be the benefactor of a 'works' Porsche deal, but there has to be more to it than that. VAG are not going to put squillions into developing an engine for just 1or 2 teams (RB&AT) in a cost cap environment. How about the concept of them branding the same engine branded as Audi or VW and selling what is ostensibly the same engine as a customer unit in the same. That way VAG could get a double whammy (for both Audi and Porsche) branding benefit from F1 whilst maintaining some sort of exclusivity for the Porsche and Red Bull project.

The only potential downside from a marketing POV is whether the two pronged approach is a dilutionary (is that even a word?) strategy that might mean neither brand benefits in the way a full single brand campaign would. Anyway at this time just a thought. Works Porsche PU's for Red Bull with Audi/Vw branded PU's for customers.

Maybe we just wait for their confirmation of F1 entry before we pontificate on how they will do it. It is still an IF question not a HOW one.

Blame it on trying to think of other things beyond Lulu and Toto's 'will he wont he' / its me or Masi ultimatums and tantrums in the off season. (Having said that I think the Masi ultimatums are more clickbait journos putting rumours out there more than fact based.

But what do we know about what went on behind walls between Toto and Todt replacement Ben from the Asylum (or whatever his name is).

[XcraigX]

@Everso Biggyballies Dilutionary: (daɪˈluːʃənərɪ) adj. causing, involving, or relating to the dilution of company stocks.

You are on it today!

[DoubleFart]

So what next for the VAG rumours? Red Bull no longer going solo - is that evidence that they have a 2026 supply lined up with VAG?

[Everso Biggyballies]

So what next for the VAG rumours? Red Bull no longer going solo - is that evidence that they have a 2026 supply lined up with VAG?

The VAG rumours only extend to 2026 onwards from what I know. VAG with Porsche branding has always been the thought for Red Bull from 2026 in my mind and seems that is the word behind the scenes. We dont really know with Honda if they have any plans beyond 2025 to stay.

Maybe VAG are now getting cold feet on the F1 involvement ..... the stories coming out of Germany at end 2021 were positive but there was still no official VAG board rubber stamp saying Yes to F1. If VAG say No to f1 how might that influence Honda beyond their recent commitment with RB now until 2025.

$64 million question innit.

[Everso Biggyballies]

The rumours wont go away.......

Audi and Porsche’s F1 entry ‘to be approved next week’
Volkswagen Group, which owns the Audi and Porsche brands, is expected to confirm plans for both to enter Formula 1 in a meeting next week,

Suggestions are still that Porsche is tipped to link up with Red Bull while Audi is considering a bid to buy McLaren......

HAMBURG, March 31 (Reuters) - Audi and Porsche owner Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) is likely to give the green light for the two brands to make their entry into motor racing's Formula One at a meeting next week, two sources familiar with the matter said on Thursday.

"We will hopefully be able to communicate our intention to enter into Formula One then," one of the sources said, with the second adding there was a "good chance" of a positive decision.

Volkswagen declined to comment. The news was first reported by Business Insider.

There has long been talk of Audi and Porsche forming partnerships with existing Formula One teams, their most likely method of entry into the highest class of international racing.

Audi and McLaren denied reports last year that a partnership between the two brands had already been formed. read more

Audi will offer around 500 million euros ($556.30 million) for McLaren, one source said, while Porsche intends to establish a long-term partnership with racing team Red Bull starting in several years' time.

Volkswagen has not previously been involved in Formula One but has worked with Red Bull, notably in the world rally championship.

McLaren Racing chief executive Zak Brown told Reuters the Formula One team was "definitely not for sale" and not looking for further equity partners.

McLaren use Mercedes engines but that could change when the sport introduces a new power unit in 2026.

Brown said there had been some "very preliminary" conversations with VW in the past but nothing agreed.

"If they decide (to come in) then there's a conversation to be had but at this point we don't want to have any conversations until we know someone is committed to the sport," he added.

A source told Reuters in November that Volkswagen's ultimate decision will rest on whether Formula One follows through on its plans to switch to synthetic fuels by 2026 and on McLaren's progress regarding electrification of its vehicles. read more

Volkswagen has invested the most of any global carmaker by far in electric vehicle production and batteries in an attempt to clean up its image from the Dieselgate emissions scandal and remain in line with governmental carbon reduction targets.

The decision comes as Volkswagen grapples with uncertainty over the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine on its finances, which will also be discussed at next Thursday's meeting.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sport ... 022-03-31/

[Aty]

Strange rumor indeed, especially after this:

McLaren Racing chief executive Zak Brown told Reuters the Formula One team was "definitely not for sale" and not looking for further equity partners.

Audi would buy presumably only the F1 team (if that is for sale). Acquisition of McLaren's whole business would be executed by VW, not by Audi (again, if for sale).

Rumor is floating around for years, however as Humphrey Appleby (Yes Minister) said, if Brown denied, it must be then definitely true, yet somehow I doubt it. Limited collaboration in the future, if at all this should happen, is most plausible outcome in this charade.

[MonteCristo]

The dream would be a new team. They have the financial resources and largely the existing infrastructure to design and build cars.

People buying existing teams just shuffles chairs around.

[Aty]

D/T 2022.04.04 12:36 UTC

This quote (GPBlog) is rather strange:

Audi is already taking an extra step and increasing its bid for McLaren's F1 team.

Just a day or two ago Brown was categorical in denying that McLaren F1 team is for sale. I have to presume VW is not run by bunch of crazies, and had Brown told them there is no point talking about it, why would Audi increased the offer to purchase the team?

Perhaps plausible explanation is, someone is either printing articles made up in thin air, or someone is not really telling full truth during interviews. This aside, I thought Brown is a Cosworth disciple, and has no inclination to sell the team to a German company. On the other hand, perhaps money can after all sway his mind, disciple or not. He is after all an employee at McLaren, and someone else is pulling strings.

[Everso Biggyballies]

D/T 2022.04.04 12:36 UTC

This quote (GPBlog) is rather strange:

Audi is already taking an extra step and increasing its bid for McLaren's F1 team.

Just a day or two ago Brown was categorical in denying that McLaren F1 team is for sale. I have to presume VW is not run by bunch of crazies, and had Brown told them there is no point talking about it, why would Audi increased the offer to purchase the team?

Perhaps plausible explanation is, someone is either printing articles made up in thin air, or someone is not really telling full truth during interviews. This aside, I thought Brown is a Cosworth disciple, and has no inclination to sell the team to a German company. On the other hand, perhaps money can after all sway his mind, disciple or not. He is after all an employee at McLaren, and someone else is pulling strings.

Ah but in the same article that you quote the McLaren not for sale no way bit, you overlook the next piece which admits to there having been talks and when a decision as to VAG's future within F1 is made that there may be further grounds for a discussion.

Brown said there had been some "very preliminary" conversations with VW in the past but nothing agreed.

"If they decide (to come in) then there's a conversation to be had but at this point we don't want to have any conversations until we know someone is committed to the sport," he added.

I think what he is saying is that it (McLaren) is possibly for sale but only for a top offer from a well credentialed buyer. Lets not forget the major McLaren shareholder is a Bahrain Investment company (albeit one with Royal connections)

[julif]

I'd love to see a new team, rather than teams being bought out.

[Aty]

D/T 2022.04.04 12:36 UTC

This quote (GPBlog) is rather strange:

Audi is already taking an extra step and increasing its bid for McLaren's F1 team.

Just a day or two ago Brown was categorical in denying that McLaren F1 team is for sale. I have to presume VW is not run by bunch of crazies, and had Brown told them there is no point talking about it, why would Audi increased the offer to purchase the team?

Perhaps plausible explanation is, someone is either printing articles made up in thin air, or someone is not really telling full truth during interviews. This aside, I thought Brown is a Cosworth disciple, and has no inclination to sell the team to a German company. On the other hand, perhaps money can after all sway his mind, disciple or not. He is after all an employee at McLaren, and someone else is pulling strings.

Ah but in the same article that you quote the McLaren not for sale no way bit, you overlook the next piece which admits to there having been talks and when a decision as to VAG's future within F1 is made that there may be further grounds for a discussion.

Brown said there had been some "very preliminary" conversations with VW in the past but nothing agreed.

"If they decide (to come in) then there's a conversation to be had but at this point we don't want to have any conversations until we know someone is committed to the sport," he added.

I think what he is saying is that it (McLaren) is possibly for sale but only for a top offer from a well credentialed buyer. Lets not forget the major McLaren shareholder is a Bahrain Investment company (albeit one with Royal connections)

A day ago with Reuters following statement seems pretty straightforward and without ambiguity.

McLaren Racing chief executive Zak Brown told Reuters the Formula One team was "definitely not for sale" and not looking for further equity partners.

if language has any meaning, that should be the end of articles that Audi continues with efforts to purchase the team. Mind you, English is not my first or second language, so would do I know.

[Aty]

I'd love to see a new team, rather than teams being bought out.

May I ask you to elaborate on that thought? What are the benefits of seeing large cluster of cars (like in NASCAR)? Mind you, there are logistical issues to consider. There is an optimal limit how many cars you field on some tracks, and still call it a race. Personally I would like to see just about 12 - 16 cars max, but well developed technically, and all capable to reach a podium. (Without standardization, of course). I do recall in the old times there were actually only 3 - 5 cars of interest, and no one complained. 16 cars of interest is plenty IMHO.

[DoubleFart]

I'd rather not see McLaren go into VAG as they're then only in F1 whilst it suits VAG. Crisis hits, we lose McLaren. Right now, McLaren need F1 to be relevant.

[Everso Biggyballies]

A day ago with Reuters following statement seems pretty straightforward and without ambiguity.

McLaren Racing chief executive Zak Brown told Reuters the Formula One team was "definitely not for sale" and not looking for further equity partners.

if language has any meaning, that should be the end of articles that Audi continues with efforts to purchase the team. Mind you, English is not my first or second language, so would do I know.

Understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day Zak Brown owns 0% of McLaren and he is a paid employee of the McLaren Group, to run the F1 team,.... the McLaren Group's effective owners are the Bahraini Royal Family via their Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company, (the sovereign wealth fund for the Kingdom of Bahrain). Given the financial problems McLaren have had of late, to the extent the F1 team have had to sell their factory to an outsider and lease it back from the new owners, to generate cash for repayment of loans and debt, and the tens of millions of additional investment Mumtalakat have had to tip in to keep the total (not just F1) company solvent throughout the Pandemic, and the effect Covid had on all aspects of the McLaren Group, maybe they see / may seek a better alternative investment for their money.... one that makes them money rather than losing it.

Zak Brown can say all he likes, but if the owners decide the price is right then his words are nothing..... and the owners of McLaren are an investment company wanting to do best with making money from that investment.

Im not suggesting that Mumtalakat are wanting to sell, or even that there is truth to what is a rumour of their interest but if Audi were to offer a big bag of cash it might be a viable proposition for indeed both Audi / VAG.and Mumtalakat.

[Aty]

Apr.4 (GMM) McLaren’s Formula 1 team is tipped to sign an incredible EUR 650 million deal with Audi.

Following reports the Volkwagen-owned brand was in talks for a EUR 500m technical and engine tie-up with the Woking based team

I do not understand this quote. At micro level it doesn't make any sense to me. Is this a claim that Audi will supply engines and some unspecified technical support, all for 650 MM €?
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... i_F1_deal/