Big meeting regarding engines this weekend feat. Porsche and Audi

[Aty]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Sorry, what is the attack on VAG that found no evidence?

I hope you're not talking about dieselgate and the cheat emissions devices found on their cars. That's not fake.

Kleptocracy has to be justified, and it was. After four full years of investigation by an audit team consisting of internal and external lawyers, accountants and technical experts, they came up empty handed. Nothing to see here.
Money meanwhile were spend (some 30 BB+), VAG stock plummeted (40% down, how convenient for casino society), and people incurred criminal records. So much for fair justice dealing with manipulation of essential information as new kind of terrorism we face today.
In lower ranks there was some unapproved deviant behavior, however not to the extend as it was presented to the public. That's my understanding. Beyond this kind of information we know today I don't know much more.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Sorry, what is the attack on VAG that found no evidence?

I hope you're not talking about dieselgate and the cheat emissions devices found on their cars. That's not fake.

Kleptocracy has to be justified, and it was. After four full years of investigation by an audit team consisting of internal and external lawyers, accountants and technical experts, they came up empty handed. Nothing to see here.



Money meanwhile were spend (some 30 BB+), VAG stock plummeted (40% down, how convenient for casino society), and people incurred criminal records. So much for fair justice dealing with manipulation of essential information as new kind of terrorism we face today.
In lower ranks there was some unapproved deviant behavior, however not to the extend as it was presented to the public. That's my understanding. Beyond this kind of information we know today I don't know much more.

The first part of your comment is not strictly true.... VAG were charged with, found guilty of and convicted of three felonies in the US regarding Dieselgate. Even the gent you mention, Martin Winterkorn said he was stunned by the misconduct present in Volkswagon's actions.

In fact Volkwagen pleaded guilty as charged in the matter so they admitted their fault and guilt.
I

n January 2017, the company was found guilty in U.S. District Court on three felony counts: conspiracy, obstruction of justice and introducing imported merchandise into the United States by means of false statements [11]. On top of reparations paid to over 590,000 diesel car owners in North America, VW paid a 2.8 billion penalty as a result of the criminal conviction [1].....

......Then CEO, Martin Winterkorn, was forced to resign, stating: “I am stunned that misconduct on such a scale was possible in the Volkswagen Group… though I am not aware of any wrong doing on my part” [7]. Though he denied knowledge of the devices, he is currently under criminal investigation, along with his replacement, Matthias Muller

Taken from quite an interesting and seemingly fact based document http://www.perspectivesmcgill.com/opini ... Volkswagen.

[Aty]

Sorry, what is the attack on VAG that found no evidence?

I hope you're not talking about dieselgate and the cheat emissions devices found on their cars. That's not fake.

Kleptocracy has to be justified, and it was. After four full years of investigation by an audit team consisting of internal and external lawyers, accountants and technical experts, they came up empty handed. Nothing to see here.



Money meanwhile were spend (some 30 BB+), VAG stock plummeted (40% down, how convenient for casino society), and people incurred criminal records. So much for fair justice dealing with manipulation of essential information as new kind of terrorism we face today.
In lower ranks there was some unapproved deviant behavior, however not to the extend as it was presented to the public. That's my understanding. Beyond this kind of information we know today I don't know much more.

The first part of your comment is not strictly true.... VAG were charged with, found guilty of and convicted of three felonies in the US regarding Dieselgate. Even the gent you mention, Martin Winterkorn said he was stunned by the misconduct present in Volkswagon's actions.

In fact Volkwagen pleaded guilty as charged in the matter so they admitted their fault and guilt.
I

n January 2017, the company was found guilty in U.S. District Court on three felony counts: conspiracy, obstruction of justice and introducing imported merchandise into the United States by means of false statements [11]. On top of reparations paid to over 590,000 diesel car owners in North America, VW paid a 2.8 billion penalty as a result of the criminal conviction [1].....

......Then CEO, Martin Winterkorn, was forced to resign, stating: “I am stunned that misconduct on such a scale was possible in the Volkswagen Group… though I am not aware of any wrong doing on my part” [7]. Though he denied knowledge of the devices, he is currently under criminal investigation, along with his replacement, Matthias Muller

Taken from quite an interesting and seemingly fact based document http://www.perspectivesmcgill.com/opini ... Volkswagen.

Maybe so, however hard to differentiate between presented so called "facts" on the record, and what more thorough investigation revealed at later date. There is an old saying; in the war first casualty is the truth. I will leave it at that.

[Aty]

For those still interested in this subject (potential VAG F1 entry) there is a new article about it.
http://www.f1reader.com/list/news/lates ... 026-312080
Saga continues.

F1 reader:

It is an exciting development for F1, which has made a conscious effort to persuade the German manufacturers to join in discussions over the sport’s new engine rules for 2026, with the formal ratification of those regulations said to represent the final hurdle before they fully commit.

Someone should ask Mr. Rencken what kind of ultimatum he wants to hand to VAG? (re: his article linked earlier.)

[Everso Biggyballies]

Sorry, what is the attack on VAG that found no evidence?

I hope you're not talking about dieselgate and the cheat emissions devices found on their cars. That's not fake.

Kleptocracy has to be justified, and it was. After four full years of investigation by an audit team consisting of internal and external lawyers, accountants and technical experts, they came up empty handed. Nothing to see here.



Money meanwhile were spend (some 30 BB+), VAG stock plummeted (40% down, how convenient for casino society), and people incurred criminal records. So much for fair justice dealing with manipulation of essential information as new kind of terrorism we face today.
In lower ranks there was some unapproved deviant behavior, however not to the extend as it was presented to the public. That's my understanding. Beyond this kind of information we know today I don't know much more.

The first part of your comment is not strictly true.... VAG were charged with, found guilty of and convicted of three felonies in the US regarding Dieselgate. Even the gent you mention, Martin Winterkorn said he was stunned by the misconduct present in Volkswagon's actions.

In fact Volkwagen pleaded guilty as charged in the matter so they admitted their fault and guilt.
I

n January 2017, the company was found guilty in U.S. District Court on three felony counts: conspiracy, obstruction of justice and introducing imported merchandise into the United States by means of false statements [11]. On top of reparations paid to over 590,000 diesel car owners in North America, VW paid a 2.8 billion penalty as a result of the criminal conviction [1].....

......Then CEO, Martin Winterkorn, was forced to resign, stating: “I am stunned that misconduct on such a scale was possible in the Volkswagen Group… though I am not aware of any wrong doing on my part” [7]. Though he denied knowledge of the devices, he is currently under criminal investigation, along with his replacement, Matthias Muller

Taken from quite an interesting and seemingly fact based document http://www.perspectivesmcgill.com/opini ... Volkswagen.

Maybe so, however hard to differentiate between presented so called "facts" on the record, and what more thorough investigation revealed at later date. There is an old saying; in the war first casualty is the truth. I will leave it at that.

The only facts I am considering are those that they admitted to with their own their own admission of guilt as charged. I presume if they (in their own/ their lawyers opinions) were not guilty of any improper goings on they would not have readily admitted their guilt to every felony they were charged with. That and the admission of the outgoing CEO of being shocked / stunned by the level of misconduct within Volkswagen suggest that even those within Volkswagen are/were aware of their wilful, deliberate misconduct and deception..

I would go as far as to suggest that the willingness to plead guilty to those felonies they did may have been a strategy of 'lets admit to something' for fear of denial leading to a more in depth investigation and further discoveries of even more damaging improper behaviour.

[Aty]

I would go as far as to suggest that the willingness to plead guilty to those felonies they did may have been a strategy of 'lets admit to something' for fear of denial leading to a more...

I think there was some other consideration. Perhaps future business conditions in US were of primary concern. That's however speculation. So called facts initially were very suggestive and against VAG, however after 4 years of investigation outcome suggested something else. Lower rank deviation placed CEO in difficulty, whether he knew about it or not. Opportunistic attack by the wild dogs turned into superfluous spectacle, that's how I think about it. There was no attempt to set the record straight after four years audit, and investigation.

Anyway, they put this behind them, and now they waiting for ratification of new specs. That's all what counts right now. FiA is holding things up, as earlier linked article suggested. Without ratification of technical and financial specs it is going to be just another empty effort, and no VAG.
Again, on one side is VAG, on the other side are teams, FiA, and Liberty. All in all it is not very easy reconciliation process. To conclude, I think VAG is interested, but not desperate for entering the F1, and the insiders have to make some minimal effort if they are genuinely interested to get them in. There were some comments made recently about that process by Mr. Wolff, and it didn't sounds very enthusiastic. Issue - Money. He has (so it sounded) no understanding how much VAG would receive, and how much they would have to pay into common coffers. This has something to do with their designation as a new entrant, which wasn't apparently clarified. That's how I understand it.

[Aty]

Lawrence Stroll open to selling Aston Martin F1 Team to Audi

Had enough already, or this is also part of 5 year plan?

[Aty]

Talks continue.

Mumtalakat Holding Company from the Middle East - are allegedly willing to sell the loss-making car business

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/ ... r-mclaren/

There is a lot of spoons making this dinner meal. Mumtalakat had 4 weeks to respond. Time is up.

[Aty]

D/T 2022.04.30 8:06 UTC

While we are waiting, another op:

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... 1_in_2026/

Berger confident Audi and Porsche will join F1 in 2026

Well, I hope so too. It is good not to be overly dependable on one team. Audi in talks with 3 teams? McLaren has to be careful not to overstate its worth. They are involved in plenty PR, but as money loosing entity it's not their position of strength in negotiations.

[Aty]

D/T 2022.05.02 11:17 UTC

Volkswagen CEO confirms: 'Porsche and Audi are coming to Formula 1

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/109719/v ... ula-1.html

Herbert Diess, the CEO of Volkswagen, would have revealed on Monday that Porsche and Audi will make their entrance into Formula 1. He would also have added that Porsche is already further along in the preparations and has more concrete plans than Audi.

I say, I am pleased. My father was old DKW devotee, and Audi was my first car I've purchased from my income, so, I am little bit sentimental about it. I can probably speculate who or what is holding Audi's progress, but they will get over it, capable as they are.

[MonteCristo]

Devil's in the detail.

As a new team/teams, please.

[Aty]

There is almost certainly not enough time (IMO) to enter the F1 as a new team in 2026. There is however time to fix an existing team which is not doing well right now. Situation suggests, that Porsche is probably coming in as a PU supplier only, whereas Audi seems to have more deeper and broader plans.

[Everso Biggyballies]

D/T 2022.05.02 11:17 UTC

Volkswagen CEO confirms: 'Porsche and Audi are coming to Formula 1

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/109719/v ... ula-1.html

Herbert Diess, the CEO of Volkswagen, would have revealed on Monday that Porsche and Audi will make their entrance into Formula 1. He would also have added that Porsche is already further along in the preparations and has more concrete plans than Audi.

I say, I am pleased. My father was old DKW devotee, and Audi was my first car I've purchased from my income, so, I am little bit sentimental about it. I can probably speculate who or what is holding Audi's progress, but they will get over it, capable as they are.

More detail as to the why's wherefores and specifics here from Andrew Benson at the BBC. It seems to the 100% use of fully sustainable fuel is the thing that got it over the line.

Doesnt look to good for those wishing to see any new team springing up over it. More a takeover of something existing and presumably with with 40% of the teams being owned by investment groups (yes Stroll sees himself as an investor in F1 for the returns. He has already indicated at the right price it (AM) is for sale. If he gets out with more than he has put in, it would be a good excuse and way of directly employing his son as a driver. Going back to using his profits from an AM sale to return to Pay Driver status over Daddy's team status.

German car companies Audi and Porsche have decided to enter Formula 1, the boss of their parent group Volkswagen said on Monday.

VW chief executive Herbert Diess said discussions about F1 at board level had created divisions within the group.

He said Audi and Porsche bosses, whose brands are VW's biggest income generators, argued entering F1 would bring in more money than not doing so.

"You just run out of arguments [against it]," Diess said.

Speaking at an event in Wolfsburg, where VW is based, Diess added that Porsche's preparations were more concrete than Audi's, without specifying details.

Porsche is said by F1 insiders to be preparing an alliance with Red Bull.

Porsche would partner with the team's new engine division, which has been set up to design and build the drinks brand's own power-unit for the new engine regulations due in F1 in 2026, and the team would run as Red Bull-Porsche.

Audi will come in as a team and has been linked with buying out an existing entrant.

It is said to have had talks with McLaren, Sauber, Aston Martin and Williams.

The VW Group has toyed with the idea of entering F1 for decades, without ever formally committing.

It was included in discussions over the current engine rules when they were being discussed at the beginning of the last decade, but ultimately decided against entering.

Last year, then Porsche Motorsport vice-president Fritz Enzinger told BBC Sport the company was again considering an entry, as long as the new engine rules went in a way that suited it.

This is now the case. F1's new engine will run on fully sustainable fuels - a non-negotiable requirement for a VW Group entry - and will make electric power a greater proportion of the overall output of the engine than is currently the case.

Last month, the VW Board approved in principle the idea of Porsche and Audi entering F1, once the engine rules were confirmed.

F1 has not yet fully defined the engine regulations but the overall direction of travel is clear.

The architecture of the engine will be the same as now, a 1.6-litre V6 turbo hybrid.

The hybrid system itself will be simplified for 2026, with the removal of the complex MGU-H, which recovers and redeploys energy from the turbocharger.

The hybrid is planned to produce 50% of the total power output of the engine.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/61300470

[Aty]

Everybody is rushing to make electrical cars, however I am slightly lost where is the electrical power grid to meet the new demand. When Chicago power grid went down some time ago, I was 4 days without warm water. It was less fun than people realize.

[DoubleFart]

No this shit again. Maybe if we spent less energy refining oil we'd not have an issue. Look at the well to wheel efficiency of both, and then remember that it'll take 20 years to switch

[Everso Biggyballies]

.... And news today confirming the likleyhood of a VW IPO this year....

(IPO = Initial Public Offering.ie float the VW brand, to become independent of the VAG group in a way similar to Ferrari and Alfa ie Stellantis away from Fiat Chrysler.

So Audi will be in a financial group independent of VW as far as I can understand.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 022-02-25/