Big meeting regarding engines this weekend feat. Porsche and Audi

[Everso Biggyballies]

Bottom post of the previous page:

.... And news today confirming the likleyhood of a VW IPO this year....

(IPO = Initial Public Offering.ie float the VW brand, to become independent of the VAG group in a way similar to Ferrari and Alfa ie Stellantis away from Fiat Chrysler.

So Audi will be in a financial group independent of VW as far as I can understand.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 022-02-25/

[DownForce]

I am never ever gonna buy/drive an electric car. I love my cars' sound plus I don't like driving a Magnet engine.
On a side note, many Japanese who owns and drives a magnet car complains of headache after driving for more than 2 hrs. Not for me

[Aty]

During a symposium I've attended in Mexico some time ago, well known automaker predicted in their discussion of future technology powering commuter cars, that hydrogen will be medium replacing oil, and electricity. Decade later I still don't know whether it's true, but I doubt it is as simple as that, as we always face unforeseen factors popping along way, no one thought about. On the side of more pragmatic thought I rather think it is most likely going to be some kind of combination of energy sources (modern hybrid), with need for personal commuting very limited as digital world eliminates need for daily travel. Travel in the future I can envision as relaying on well developed public transport. I can vouch it works, if a nation wants it. It works in cities like Tokyo or Nagoya, it works where I reside today. Public transport is well developed, I really don't need a car. Suits me just fine.

[MonteCristo]

For cars, the ability to 'refuel' at home makes it a game changer for consumers.

For transport (trains, buses, trucks, planes) with the need to travel long distances, hydrogen makes sense.

[Aty]

D/T 2022.05.03 10:45 UTC

Audi, Porsche discussion 'not unanimous' on VW board

Well, I would have been surprised if it was.

http://www.f1reader.com/news/audi-porsc ... ard-313642

According to Reuters, Porsche will be looking to team-up with Red Bull while Audi have tabled a 500 million euros (£418million) for McLaren, allowing them to enter the sport as a constructor and not just an engine manufacturer.

...both divisions began to work on the engine already, says Dr. Diess. So, rumors can dry up.

[DoubleFart]

Hydrogen is BS. Its fucking useless for private vehicles. It's not the future unless you work in the oil industry.

Also, no headaches in my EV.

If you day you'll never drive one, good for you. Enjoy the taxes for polluting the planet.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Hydrogen is BS. Its fucking useless for private vehicles. It's not the future unless you work in the oil industry.

Also, no headaches in my EV.

If you day you'll never drive one, good for you. Enjoy the taxes for polluting the planet.

Im doing my bit. Ive weaned my self off of V8s and now happy with a 3.0V6 with a couple of turbos.
Ill add my insignificant contribution to the pollution from my gas guzzling,.... To offset it I planted some trees in the garden and have a roof full of solar panels.

Those with EV's can wonder where their (most peoples) electricity comes from (in Aus anyway most electricity usually comes from places with big chimneys and a sky full of smoke that keeps our coal industry going)

When we have an infrastructure that will allow me to recharge an EV at all, let alone with a fast charger, and when my government give me an incentive to drive an EV rather than load me more on tax / registration because I will use the roads that are funded by fuel taxes and thus im not contributing to the road maintenance, then I will think of it. Hopefully by the the ridiculous premium on an EV here will have evaporated and make it viable for Joe Public to drive an EV then I will reconsider. Hopefully by then they ill also have found eco-friendly production (and distribution) bio-degradable batteries that dont more negatives than plusses.

I'll do it one day, but only when all the stars align.

As I have said before I like engines that go brmmm brmmm not weeee-weeee.

[Vassago]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

[MonteCristo]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

Energy providers who are already connected to the home; very often the same energy suppliers install solar panels.

Industries do shift and evolve over time, you know.

Eg: Studebaker is dead. They survived the shift from horses to cars; but didn't survive evolving consumer demands.

[Vassago]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

Energy providers who are already connected to the home; very often the same energy suppliers install solar panels.

Industries do shift and evolve over time, you know.

Eg: Studebaker is dead. They survived the shift from horses to cars; but didn't survive evolving consumer demands.

Yeah, but battery usage isn't exactly a life-changing technology anymore. You need something better than that to run petrol cars out of business. Ecology won't cut it if the electic cars prices will be so high you'd tell hundreds of millions people to use bikes or public transport again. LPG was supposed to drive petrol out of car business already and I don't see that being the case some 20 years after the initial craze (I never owned a LPG car but my cousin used to).

[MonteCristo]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

Energy providers who are already connected to the home; very often the same energy suppliers install solar panels.

Industries do shift and evolve over time, you know.

Eg: Studebaker is dead. They survived the shift from horses to cars; but didn't survive evolving consumer demands.

Yeah, but battery usage isn't exactly a life-changing technology anymore. You need something better than that to run petrol cars out of business. Ecology won't cut it if the electic cars prices will be so high you'd tell hundreds of millions people to use bikes or public transport again. LPG was supposed to drive petrol out of car business already and I don't see that being the case some 20 years after the initial craze (I never owned a LPG car but my cousin used to).

How about better maintenance? EVs have fewer moving parts, so less breaks and they're cheaper to run (especially if you can charge from home).

How about better performance? We live in a world of speed limits, but most EVs will dust their ICE equivalent off the line. Accessible thrills.

How about autonomous cars (this isn't strictly EV - could be ICE - but it's heading the way of EV more thanks to Tesla)? With remote charging on a pad, no human is required to refuel them when they sit idle. Makes vast robotaxi fleets easy to run (and cheaper with no driver required).

And none of that goes into feel good environmental aspects.

My next car will be an EV, and I can't wait for it to happen. If only they were the same cost in Australia as they were overseas (thanks government).

[Vassago]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

Energy providers who are already connected to the home; very often the same energy suppliers install solar panels.

Industries do shift and evolve over time, you know.

Eg: Studebaker is dead. They survived the shift from horses to cars; but didn't survive evolving consumer demands.

Yeah, but battery usage isn't exactly a life-changing technology anymore. You need something better than that to run petrol cars out of business. Ecology won't cut it if the electic cars prices will be so high you'd tell hundreds of millions people to use bikes or public transport again. LPG was supposed to drive petrol out of car business already and I don't see that being the case some 20 years after the initial craze (I never owned a LPG car but my cousin used to).

How about better maintenance? EVs have fewer moving parts, so less breaks and they're cheaper to run (especially if you can charge from home).

How about better performance? We live in a world of speed limits, but most EVs will dust their ICE equivalent off the line. Accessible thrills.

How about autonomous cars (this isn't strictly EV - could be ICE - but it's heading the way of EV more thanks to Tesla)? With remote charging on a pad, no human is required to refuel them when they sit idle. Makes vast robotaxi fleets easy to run (and cheaper with no driver required).

And none of that goes into feel good environmental aspects.

My next car will be an EV, and I can't wait for it to happen. If only they were the same cost in Australia as they were overseas (thanks government).

You're talking about a luxury problem literally half of the world if not more doesn't have. Electric cars replacing petrol cars in Western Europe, USA, Canada, Japan & Australia. Fine. What about those billions of mopeds used in the Far East or thousand of old post-colonial trucks used on the African desert. Good luck in re-charging that electric car when it conks out 300 kms east of Mombasa in the middle of nowhere

[MonteCristo]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

Energy providers who are already connected to the home; very often the same energy suppliers install solar panels.

Industries do shift and evolve over time, you know.

Eg: Studebaker is dead. They survived the shift from horses to cars; but didn't survive evolving consumer demands.

Yeah, but battery usage isn't exactly a life-changing technology anymore. You need something better than that to run petrol cars out of business. Ecology won't cut it if the electic cars prices will be so high you'd tell hundreds of millions people to use bikes or public transport again. LPG was supposed to drive petrol out of car business already and I don't see that being the case some 20 years after the initial craze (I never owned a LPG car but my cousin used to).

How about better maintenance? EVs have fewer moving parts, so less breaks and they're cheaper to run (especially if you can charge from home).

How about better performance? We live in a world of speed limits, but most EVs will dust their ICE equivalent off the line. Accessible thrills.

How about autonomous cars (this isn't strictly EV - could be ICE - but it's heading the way of EV more thanks to Tesla)? With remote charging on a pad, no human is required to refuel them when they sit idle. Makes vast robotaxi fleets easy to run (and cheaper with no driver required).

And none of that goes into feel good environmental aspects.

My next car will be an EV, and I can't wait for it to happen. If only they were the same cost in Australia as they were overseas (thanks government).

You're talking about a luxury problem literally half of the world if not more doesn't have. Electric cars replacing petrol cars in Western Europe, USA, Canada, Japan & Australia. Fine. What about those billions of mopeds used in the Far East or thousand of old post-colonial trucks used on the African desert. Good luck in re-charging that electric car when it conks out 300 kms east of Mombasa in the middle of nowhere

Sure. And other places still use livestock to move people and goods around. So...?

[Vassago]

As usual, you have to follow the money. "Refuelling" at home? Alrighty then but who profits from that? Energy suppliers are not car makers and if they'd want that slice of the pizza it can lead to a economical war unless the car business can be self-affordable in that regard. If they can that will obviously lead to higher car prices though since the technology would require more spending to begin with. Did I miss something?

Energy providers who are already connected to the home; very often the same energy suppliers install solar panels.

Industries do shift and evolve over time, you know.

Eg: Studebaker is dead. They survived the shift from horses to cars; but didn't survive evolving consumer demands.

Yeah, but battery usage isn't exactly a life-changing technology anymore. You need something better than that to run petrol cars out of business. Ecology won't cut it if the electic cars prices will be so high you'd tell hundreds of millions people to use bikes or public transport again. LPG was supposed to drive petrol out of car business already and I don't see that being the case some 20 years after the initial craze (I never owned a LPG car but my cousin used to).

How about better maintenance? EVs have fewer moving parts, so less breaks and they're cheaper to run (especially if you can charge from home).

How about better performance? We live in a world of speed limits, but most EVs will dust their ICE equivalent off the line. Accessible thrills.

How about autonomous cars (this isn't strictly EV - could be ICE - but it's heading the way of EV more thanks to Tesla)? With remote charging on a pad, no human is required to refuel them when they sit idle. Makes vast robotaxi fleets easy to run (and cheaper with no driver required).

And none of that goes into feel good environmental aspects.

My next car will be an EV, and I can't wait for it to happen. If only they were the same cost in Australia as they were overseas (thanks government).

You're talking about a luxury problem literally half of the world if not more doesn't have. Electric cars replacing petrol cars in Western Europe, USA, Canada, Japan & Australia. Fine. What about those billions of mopeds used in the Far East or thousand of old post-colonial trucks used on the African desert. Good luck in re-charging that electric car when it conks out 300 kms east of Mombasa in the middle of nowhere

Sure. And other places still use livestock to move people and goods around. So...?

Nothing. You've just proved my point rich don't care about the poor and there will still be demand for petrol vehicles going forward We can also move forward from this since it doesn't really matter what VW plans are in the near future. The next technological jump that renders the previous one irrelevant hasn't been invented yet.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Maybe we should have a thread in off topic for the Pros and Cons of EV's. Throw in other non ICE alternatives as well.
Rather than clutter up this thread with basically stuff that is irrelevant to the matter of Audi / VW going into F1.
Just a thought.

[Vassago]

It's fine, everything is settled. We can always bump this thread in 2026 or sooner if Porsche & Audi decide to the pull the plug in the meantime!