Sprint races approved and happening in 2021. Balls.

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Everso Biggyballies
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#106

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Hopefully some good news in the offing for those not keen on the press on for more frequent Sprint races...... and being F1 it all comes down to $$$$. Oh and the teams having too much say in how the sport is run.

F1 money dispute could scupper 2022 sprint race plans

Formula 1 risks having to abandon plans for sprint races in 2022 amid an ongoing stalemate over costs, according to McLaren CEO Zak Brown. (I have to say when Zal Brown came into McLaren I was a bit anti his persona ..... I have to say I have done a complete change and now see his involvement as a breath of fresh air over the usual whingeing hard done by Horners and Wolff's of F1. I like Zak's seeming "Suck it up Princess" attitude.

In fact he is part of the reason, along with the drivers and general aura why McLaren has become my favourite team. Something I would never have thought back in RD's days. The aura and feel I believe is a direct consequence of his leadership style.

As with all these things it is both good and bad. It seems this little hiccup might only affect this year and Sprint races seem set to be in on a longer term.
Grand Prix racing’s chiefs are hoping to push on with plans to hold six sprint races this year, following the success of the experiments at Silverstone, Monza and Interlagos in 2021.

However, the green light has not yet been given because teams have yet to agree with F1’s commercial rights holder on a funding package for the races.

It is understood teams were paid an extra $100,000 per event for each sprint in 2021. They were also given a cost cap allowance of $450,000 for the three events, plus scope for an extra $100,000 per car for accident damage in the event of a serious incident.

For this year, it is understood that F1 does not want to offer any extra allowance for crashes. Instead, its initial offer was a straight $500,000 payment per team for the first five events, plus an extra $150,000 for each event above that. This effectively meant an extra $2.65 million for each team for the six races in 2022.

It is understood that this offer has not gone down well with the bigger teams who are at the limit of the cost cap and are worried it is not enough. They fear that the addition of extra sprint costs could force them to compromise in what they can devote to pure performance improvements in the event of crashes.

According to Brown, one unidentified team wants the cost cap limit raised by $5 million dollars instead of what is on offer.

However, the smaller squads believe that calls for the cost cap to go up by such a margin are simply a cover for the bigger squads to spend more on making their cars go quicker rather, than being necessary for the sprint races.

The ongoing failure to find a middle ground is a problem for F1 because, with just a few weeks to go ahead of the first F1 race of the season, the dispute over the money risks derailing the sprint race plans entirely.

F1’s current governance structure means that, for the rules to change in the current year, then it needs a ‘super majority’ of 28 votes from the 30 representatives in the F1 Commission.

While the 10 votes each from F1 and FIA are guaranteed, getting eight teams to back the idea could be a problem with it understood that Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari are the most concerned about the situation – and could force the hand of customer teams to support their stance.

Brown, whose team is happy with the current financial package on offer, is worried that there is a danger of a couple of outfits pulling rank and scuppering the sprint idea completely.

Asked how F1 can get out of the impasse over money, Brown said: “We might not, which would be the unfortunate thing.”

Brown was far from happy with the push being made by bigger spending outfits to try to push up the cost cap limit.

“We all have the same challenge,” he said.

“If you do happen to have more incidents, that's the same problem we all have. And to me that's part of the sport. It is dealing with challenges: not I just want to solve it by getting my chequebook out.”

He added: “One team in particular wanted a $5 million budget cap increase, which was just ridiculous, and had no rational facts behind it.

“Then, when you challenge those facts, they go, ‘but you need to anticipate things just in case’. So you just sit there and you go: ‘That is just nonsense.’”

With the battlelines drawn, Brown believes the best approach may well be to ditch plans for sprints in 2022 and instead focus on getting approval for 2023 – where only six teams would need to support the plans because only an overall majority is needed for long term rule changes.

“I'd like us not to run into a situation where we're voting for 2022, where we have to get back to eight votes, because we passed a milestone date,” he said.

“I think we should go ahead and lock in now 2023, with no budget cap raise at all, if you want to be hard about it.

“Then maybe either there can be a compromise made and we can raise it a little bit so we can go ahead and start with 2022, or we skip 2022. And then I think a couple of these teams should have to explain to the fans why there's no sprint races.”

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#107

Post by MonteCristo »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago It seems this little hiccup might only affect this year and Sprint races seem set to be in on a longer term.
This thread never fails to make me sad.
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#108

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

MonteCristo wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago It seems this little hiccup might only affect this year and Sprint races seem set to be in on a longer term.
This thread never fails to make me sad.
Yes Im with you there.... I still dont see the point of it all, and it seems the only folks that do are the part of F1 I try to put distance between me and them.... the rabid Twitter / social media fanboi warriors that lack a lot more than respect for the traditions of F1.

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#109

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Well, surely nobody can claim I lack respect for the traditions of F1 :haha: but I would be sorry to see the Sprint races go. They're far from perfect, yes, but right now I feel they're the only format in which F1 is just about enjoyable. I really can't be motivated to watch pit wall chess on Sundays, it's just too sad, a travesty of a once great sport.
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#110

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

It seems now that the proposal for 6 Sprint races for this year is now an official no-no.
Formula 1 bosses are pushing for a compromise solution of hosting just three sprint race events in 2022, amid the ongoing dispute over costs.

From what I can understand this is a revised Liberty offer. Having originally pushed for 6 Sprints.....the season opener in Bahrain, then Imola, Canada, Austria, the Netherlands and Brazil, they are now offering a compromise of 3. No decision has yet been made about where the three sprints would take place if the revised plan is given the green light.

The idea / compromise of 3 rather than 6 will be put to the February 14 meeting of the F1 Commission,

It is understood that Liberty, the FIA and the majority of teams will not support any proposal for the cost cap to be lifted, meaning that the fate of the sprints is now dependent on finding a deal next week. The three big teams (RB Merc and Ferrari) want a bonus payment way beyond what was offered (on the budget cap). The smaller teams dont because they want to keep the costs down.

While F1(Liberty) remains eager long term for there to be up to six sprints, it does accept that with teams facing struggles to get to grips with the new cars in 2022, then a halfway house of three would still be good for fans who liked the sprints.

But, without the support of Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari, there remains a chance that F1 could have to abandon the sprint race idea completely. :fingers: :fingers:

Hopefully the idea of Sprints gets canned for this year at least. The good news is it is not going to be 6 as threatened, and I reckon the compromise of 3 will be what happens.

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#111

Post by MonteCristo »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago But, without the support of Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari, there remains a chance that F1 could have to abandon the sprint race idea completely. :fingers: :fingers:
No. Just no.

I don't believe it.

Don't do this to me.

Don't make me have some level of hope.
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#112

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Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago Well, surely nobody can claim I lack respect for the traditions of F1 :haha: but I would be sorry to see the Sprint races go. They're far from perfect, yes, but right now I feel they're the only format in which F1 is just about enjoyable. I really can't be motivated to watch pit wall chess on Sundays, it's just too sad, a travesty of a once great sport.
So you want a 1.5 hour race with no refuelling and one set of tyres?
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#113

Post by Aty »

D/T 2022.02.05 08:37 CET

Lets sum it up:
  • New specs. (Design has not been validated on the track).
    Less time is permitted for testing in a wind tunnel through the season.
    Pre-season track testing is shorter this season. (I didn't think it was possible, but they managed).
    Restrictive regulations on in-season corrective work continue to hamper rate of recovery (if that at all will be possible).
    Impact of budgetary restrictions is self explanatory. (Materials, human resources)
    Jammed calendar will place cars on the road, not really available for some meaningful work in a factory.
Add several Saturday races on the same or lower budget, and work restrictions. (Under negotiations).

I have to admit that I can't make any sense out of these regulatory arrangements, never-mind how hard I try.

Regarding qualifying methodology, my own preference is simple, 1 hour qualifier for everyone. Cars being tossed out in Q1 or Q2 makes very little sense to me. There are factors beyond driver's control, and I want them to have another chance, instead running out of time just because someone went off the track, and there is yellow flag somewhere. US style qualifying is not the F1 I felt in love with. Negotiate circuit best you can, unimpeded but your own abilities with a car you have, and that's where you will park on the grid. on Sunday
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#114

Post by Michael Ferner »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago Well, surely nobody can claim I lack respect for the traditions of F1 :haha: but I would be sorry to see the Sprint races go. They're far from perfect, yes, but right now I feel they're the only format in which F1 is just about enjoyable. I really can't be motivated to watch pit wall chess on Sundays, it's just too sad, a travesty of a once great sport.
So you want a 1.5 hour race with no refuelling and one set of tyres?
For starters.
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#115

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Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago
PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago Well, surely nobody can claim I lack respect for the traditions of F1 :haha: but I would be sorry to see the Sprint races go. They're far from perfect, yes, but right now I feel they're the only format in which F1 is just about enjoyable. I really can't be motivated to watch pit wall chess on Sundays, it's just too sad, a travesty of a once great sport.
So you want a 1.5 hour race with no refuelling and one set of tyres?
For starters.
Didn't they try that in 2005? And it didn't turn out very well from what I remember...
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#116

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I'm all for no refueling and one set of tyres.

But it's shit if the cars can't pass.
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#117

Post by Michael Ferner »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Didn't they try that in 2005? And it didn't turn out very well from what I remember...
I don't know, I wasn't paying attention in 2005 :haha:

What went wrong?
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#118

Post by Aty »

The specs were changed to ensure that a race is something more than "just chess" on the pit-wall. Maybe we should wait until fog clears, before we start changing traditional F1 profile too much. Besides, choosing Sprint races as substitute for dull races seems poor solution to the problem.
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#119

Post by PTRACER »

Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago
PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Didn't they try that in 2005? And it didn't turn out very well from what I remember...
I don't know, I wasn't paying attention in 2005 :haha:

What went wrong?


And a quote:
Tyres had to last the entire race and changes were only able to be changed without a penalty in very specific circumstances like punctures, bad flat-spots and obviously if weather conditions changed. It’s safe to say the rule didn’t go down well or help the on-track action, and we never saw it again after the conclusion of the season. Thankfully.
Let's face it, just about the only time when every driver could comfortably make it from start to finish on one set of tyres was the 1960s. I've seen plenty of tyre change footage from the 1950s and 1970s.
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#120

Post by XcraigX »

Yeah. 2005 sucked.
But the change ended Ferrari dominance (as intended by the FIA with the rules change). Bridgestone had the hardest time getting the tires to last. Their only win was the farce of a race at Indianapolis that year (where Michelin runners withdrew).

So a big Hell NO! to tires lasting the entire race.

I really don't care about format of the rules. I just want there to be some even competition. It can be done many ways, but it would be good to see several different teams be able to win through the season via racecraft, strategy, etc.
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#121

Post by Michael Ferner »

Hm, I don't know. That Kimi accident didn't look much like a tyre issue, more like a wheel out of balance. Anyway, shit happens even with the best rules. YT offered a follow-up of the top ten tyre failures in F1 (or something like that), and the majority was from the last twenty years, so if anything it's worse than it was before. And it worked well for almost a full century. True, there were races in the eighties and nineties (and the longer ones in the fifties and before the war) when tyres sometimes didn't last a full race for everyone, but it wasn't like today. I used to watch because I like racing. Pit wall chess just sucks. :idunno:
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