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Monaco 1984. Senna faster than the leader Prost but third man Bellof faster than Senna and chasing him down from back of the grid in torrential rain conditions. Race became shortflagged unfortunately.Your favourite Grand Prix
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Yet the man who gets the credit for a brilliant drive was Senna, who also made the most fuss about the race being red flagged when it was. Certainly Senna put his name on the F1 map that day, and did drive an awesome race, but Bellof moved up from stone dead last due to his being the only non turbo car in the field. (This was no doubt something of an advantage to Bellof in the monsoon conditions, but Senna only moved forward half a grid compared to Bellof climbing near enough 20 spots.
The truth of the story remains that many years after the event I think it was Pat Symonds made the disclosure that the Toleman of Senna would not have lasted more than a further few race laps, Senna having clouted a wall just prior to the red flag. The front suspension was severely cracked and unlikely to have lasted to 75 % distance, the point at which the pointscore would have been full points awarded rather than the half points it actually did score. IIRC Pat said the suspension actually failed as the car was returned to pit lane. I think at the time Symonds was Senna's chief engineer at Toleman.....
The truth of the story remains that many years after the event I think it was Pat Symonds made the disclosure that the Toleman of Senna would not have lasted more than a further few race laps, Senna having clouted a wall just prior to the red flag. The front suspension was severely cracked and unlikely to have lasted to 75 % distance, the point at which the pointscore would have been full points awarded rather than the half points it actually did score. IIRC Pat said the suspension actually failed as the car was returned to pit lane. I think at the time Symonds was Senna's chief engineer at Toleman.....
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I still remember the move on Arnoux like it was yesterday. Into the Casino of all places.Everso Biggyballies wrote:Yet the man who gets the credit for a brilliant drive was Senna, who also made the most fuss about the race being red flagged when it was. Certainly Senna put his name on the F1 map that day, and did drive an awesome race, but Bellof moved up from stone dead last due to his being the only non turbo car in the field. (This was no doubt something of an advantage to Bellof in the monsoon conditions, but Senna only moved forward half a grid compared to Bellof climbing near enough 20 spots.
The truth of the story remains that many years after the event I think it was Pat Symonds made the disclosure that the Toleman of Senna would not have lasted more than a further few race laps, Senna having clouted a wall just prior to the red flag. The front suspension was severely cracked and unlikely to have lasted to 75 % distance, the point at which the pointscore would have been full points awarded rather than the half points it actually did score. IIRC Pat said the suspension actually failed as the car was returned to pit lane. I think at the time Symonds was Senna's chief engineer at Toleman.....
Advantage of the non turbo sure, but it was also the killer instinct to make use of it. Merciless would be a word to describe Stefan's drive there.
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Another race that I seem to have missed in this thread is Adelaide 1990. It was one of the races that I replayed time after time as a kid when I finally managed to learn how to use the VCR. Drove my parents nuts!
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What year?xavier28 wrote:My favourite was the Belgian Gp but it is now has to be the Canadian Gp.
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Trying to remember...was that a dry race?ReneLotus wrote:Another race that I seem to have missed in this thread is Adelaide 1990. It was one of the races that I replayed time after time as a kid when I finally managed to learn how to use the VCR. Drove my parents nuts!
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PTRACER wrote:Trying to remember...was that a dry race?ReneLotus wrote:Another race that I seem to have missed in this thread is Adelaide 1990. It was one of the races that I replayed time after time as a kid when I finally managed to learn how to use the VCR. Drove my parents nuts!
1990 was a dry race, Senna led by miles until his gearbox jammed and he crashed into the barriers. Piquet was then chased down by Mansell.
Racing is in my blood, ( Senna @ adeliade press confrence after the he was excluded from the 1989 japanesse grand prix
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I have read somewhere, and maybe from same Symonds source, that considering heavy rain conditions they gambled on GP suspension filling half tank on Toleman n°19Everso Biggyballies wrote:Yet the man who gets the credit for a brilliant drive was Senna, who also made the most fuss about the race being red flagged when it was. Certainly Senna put his name on the F1 map that day, and did drive an awesome race, but Bellof moved up from stone dead last due to his being the only non turbo car in the field. (This was no doubt something of an advantage to Bellof in the monsoon conditions, but Senna only moved forward half a grid compared to Bellof climbing near enough 20 spots.
The truth of the story remains that many years after the event I think it was Pat Symonds made the disclosure that the Toleman of Senna would not have lasted more than a further few race laps, Senna having clouted a wall just prior to the red flag. The front suspension was severely cracked and unlikely to have lasted to 75 % distance, the point at which the pointscore would have been full points awarded rather than the half points it actually did score. IIRC Pat said the suspension actually failed as the car was returned to pit lane. I think at the time Symonds was Senna's chief engineer at Toleman.....
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Senna hit the high kerb of the harbour chicane which was the reason for the suspension damage, it's shown in the TV broadcast (although I can't remember if any commentators pick up on it).Everso Biggyballies wrote:Yet the man who gets the credit for a brilliant drive was Senna, who also made the most fuss about the race being red flagged when it was. Certainly Senna put his name on the F1 map that day, and did drive an awesome race, but Bellof moved up from stone dead last due to his being the only non turbo car in the field. (This was no doubt something of an advantage to Bellof in the monsoon conditions, but Senna only moved forward half a grid compared to Bellof climbing near enough 20 spots.
The truth of the story remains that many years after the event I think it was Pat Symonds made the disclosure that the Toleman of Senna would not have lasted more than a further few race laps, Senna having clouted a wall just prior to the red flag. The front suspension was severely cracked and unlikely to have lasted to 75 % distance, the point at which the pointscore would have been full points awarded rather than the half points it actually did score. IIRC Pat said the suspension actually failed as the car was returned to pit lane. I think at the time Symonds was Senna's chief engineer at Toleman.....
Bellof undoubtedly was flying - passing most of the grid is definitely impressive. At the end of lap 1 he was 11th! However he gained four places automatically at St. Devote on lap 1 when the Renaults took each other out, and De Angelis and Patrese had to stop and wait until the rest of the pack had passed before being able to pass the stricken Renaults. Johhny Cecotto also retired on lap 1, though Bellof may have already passed him.
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Likewise I believe Senna benefited equally from the two Renaults crashing, as both had started ahead of Senna. At the end of lap 1 Bellof was immediately behind Senna, the two running in 9th (Senna) and 10th (Bellof).JBT wrote:Senna hit the high kerb of the harbour chicane which was the reason for the suspension damage, it's shown in the TV broadcast (although I can't remember if any commentators pick up on it).Everso Biggyballies wrote:Yet the man who gets the credit for a brilliant drive was Senna, who also made the most fuss about the race being red flagged when it was. Certainly Senna put his name on the F1 map that day, and did drive an awesome race, but Bellof moved up from stone dead last due to his being the only non turbo car in the field. (This was no doubt something of an advantage to Bellof in the monsoon conditions, but Senna only moved forward half a grid compared to Bellof climbing near enough 20 spots.
The truth of the story remains that many years after the event I think it was Pat Symonds made the disclosure that the Toleman of Senna would not have lasted more than a further few race laps, Senna having clouted a wall just prior to the red flag. The front suspension was severely cracked and unlikely to have lasted to 75 % distance, the point at which the pointscore would have been full points awarded rather than the half points it actually did score. IIRC Pat said the suspension actually failed as the car was returned to pit lane. I think at the time Symonds was Senna's chief engineer at Toleman.....
Bellof undoubtedly was flying - passing most of the grid is definitely impressive. At the end of lap 1 he was 11th! However he gained four places automatically at St. Devote on lap 1 when the Renaults took each other out, and De Angelis and Patrese had to stop and wait until the rest of the pack had passed before being able to pass the stricken Renaults. Johhny Cecotto also retired on lap 1, though Bellof may have already passed him.
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Started watching sometime mid seventies; precious few full-race broadcasts back then (German GP most years, and a few far-away locations that aired around midnight in Europe) so you had to make do with what you were fed, including the dreaded 2'59" clips - still, manna to a young boy starving of F1!!
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Long Beach 1983 - just a crazy race
Hungary 1988 - two of the best drivers ever in arguably the best car ever, trying to outsmart each other - too bad the wrong one won.
Hungary 1997 - dreadful track, but another memorable race - it almost snowed in hell!!
A few of those that stand out, for one reason or another:
British GP 1975 - one of my earliest memories: lots of confusion, drama, what-ifs and best of all: nobody hurt
Austria 1982 - edge-of-the-seat stuff, with a fairy-tale ending
Long Beach 1983 - just a crazy race
Hungary 1988 - two of the best drivers ever in arguably the best car ever, trying to outsmart each other - too bad the wrong one won.
Hungary 1997 - dreadful track, but another memorable race - it almost snowed in hell!!
Last edited by Michael Ferner 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Strange - I could have sworn it was at Mirabeau, down the road from the Casino...Andy wrote: I still remember the move on Arnoux like it was yesterday. Into the Casino of all places.
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Yep, it was the Mirabeau.
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My memories seem to be fadingMichael Ferner wrote:Strange - I could have sworn it was at Mirabeau, down the road from the Casino...Andy wrote: I still remember the move on Arnoux like it was yesterday. Into the Casino of all places.
I remember a badass move by Stefan into Casino in this slight bend right before
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