Michael Schumacher - 10 years on

[Everso Biggyballies]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Just a couple of weeks off 10 years since Michael suffered the ski-ing accident that changed his life.


We have all got used to the family driven privacy that surrounds his current condition, which is as always often speculative but rarely factual.

However I just found a video update of Michael and his apparent current status..... it still obviously does not show any current footage of him and his current level of ability / disability but it does contain comment from Todt, who watched a race with Michael on TV at Michaels home. Bernie speaks of him not being Michael but that he believes Michael will be able to answer questions. Son Mick talks of the sadness of not being able to talk to Michael conversationally about his own racing. Other in the inner circle all contribute their bit.

There are lows in it.... Willi Webber, Michaels one time manager and mentor, is bitter and resentful and makes some unfavourable allegations.... he is, and has never been, allowed access, and seeing his input I understand why not. Plus others, and including a medical (neurology) professional's point of view. That is I guess where reality comes into it more.

Anyway FWIW, it is respectful and as informative as anything I have ever seen regarding Michael. The small inner circle that have visited Michael give their opinions and the message I see is that he is not able to communicate verbally but exists in his own way. Sad, but he is still being well looked after, loved by a dutiful family and those close, and I guess is in as good a place as he can be. Thats my take.

Watch it and take from it what you wish. Make your own mind up.

The title of the video talks of it being heartbreaking. Of course it is to an extent, but I guess I see it as realistic. I was not, and I and am sure others would not be expecting to hear Michael was on the cusp of any sort of recovery beyond being able to breathe normally and may have very limited movement, whilst still being to all intents and purposes unresponsive.

[Aty]

Most damage to Michael inflicted camera mounted on his helmet. Being a vivid Alpine skier myself, I can see how that could happen.

Comments by Corinna describing the family relationship in the past tense are quite telling without further explanation. I am appalled by the doctor lending himself to unprofessional behavior and rendering diagnosis on public waves without examining the patient. Simply atrocious. Willy should give up. It is what it is, and if he liked Michael as his son, his words then his spiteful comments aren't helpful. Mick, of course, is hurt as well. It is a family tragedy.

Lastly, until my very last day I will never put an equal sign between Schumacher's and Hamilton's achivements. Some people have nerve to do that, but I think it's insulting to former Ferrari driver. Max, on the other hand, now we are talking about a deserving champion!

[Star]

Thanks for putting that up @Everso Biggyballies. I can't say I was a huge fan of Michael Schumacher, but he's a driver you couldn't ignore and I think what happened to him was just awful. All those years in a dangerous sport like F1 and he ends up getting badly hurt so soon after he's retired.

It sounds like he's in a bad state still and not likely to improve, unless some miracle happens I guess. It's got to be incredibly tough on him, but also on those around him who love him, I mean he's there, but he's not in so many ways. That has to be incredibly hard to cope with on a day to day basis. Bless them all, I wouldn't wish what happened to them, (because it's happened to all of them not just Michael), on anyone.

[Michael Ferner]

Well, to me it looks like a lot of superfluous and irrelevant twaddle, the same you can read every month or so in one of the many gossip magazines here in Germany because it sells copy. Do people have an interest in Schu's ultimate fate? Of course, they do - we're all humans, and humans are conditioned to take an interest in people, animals and things they "know", it's the competitve edge of our species. Do they have a "right to know" his fate? Why should they? Because they "care"??? C'mon, pull the other one.

Nothing has changed since about a week after the accident, when it became clear that the accident was very serious, and likely to result in a vegetative state. The family have every right to close that chapter, and people who continue to talk about it do so because they think they are themselves important. It's not about Schu, it's about them. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

[EB]

Lastly, until my very last day I will never put an equal sign between Schumacher's and Hamilton's achivements. Some people have nerve to do that, but I think it's insulting to former Ferrari driver. Max, on the other hand, now we are talking about a deserving champion!

Care to explain why? It's fairly obvious but no doubt you will try to justify it for more "acceptable" reasons and hide your true colours.

[DoubleFart]

Lastly, until my very last day I will never put an equal sign between Schumacher's and Hamilton's achivements. Some people have nerve to do that, but I think it's insulting to former Ferrari driver. Max, on the other hand, now we are talking about a deserving champion!

Care to explain why? It's fairly obvious but no doubt you will try to justify it for more "acceptable" reasons and hide your true colours.

This sounds an awful lot like you're saying he is racist. I hope that's not the case.

We can dislike Lewis' padded achievements for reasons other than him being black.

[EB]

I hope that's not the case

So do I!

But Michael's achievements are just as padded, maybe even more so if you factor in the greater subservience of his teammates in comparison to Lewis. On the flip side it can be argued that Lewis had more seasons in the dominant car.

Whatever side of the coin you argue for though, to suggest that there is a big gulf between them is a nonsense, it can be only be a fairly close call unless other biases are at play. And to prematurely grant Max a status way above Lewis is absurd at this stage, further arousing my suspicions.

So let's pretend all 3 are equally likeable/dislikeable and all from the same country, and hear a coherent argument as to why Hamilton is some level below the others.....

Fwiw none of them would feature in my top half dozen of all timers anyway!

[MonteCristo]

The family have every right to close that chapter, and people who continue to talk about it do so because they think they are themselves important. It's not about Schu, it's about them. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

As you say, people are curious creatures. Hundreds of people around the world get brained every day in accidents or through illness. And it's only because we know (of) Michael that people care. Not the nameless/faceless countless others in ultimately the same sad fate.

However, the one thing the family's stance does encourage is speculation. If they put out a definitive statement saying "This is where things are at, and this is what is realistically going to happen" then it would put most (but certainly not all) of the stories to rest.

But it's entirely their right. And either way (public knowledge, or private knowledge) it changes nothing if he's dribbling and in a nappy, or paralysed but happily talking, or awake and on a good day semi responsive.

[Everso Biggyballies]

I hope that's not the case

So do I!

But Michael's achievements are just as padded, maybe even more so if you factor in the greater subservience of his teammates in comparison to Lewis. On the flip side it can be argued that Lewis had more seasons in the dominant car.

Whatever side of the coin you argue for though, to suggest that there is a big gulf between them is a nonsense, it can be only be a fairly close call unless other biases are at play. And to prematurely grant Max a status way above Lewis is absurd at this stage, further arousing my suspicions.

So let's pretend all 3 are equally likeable/dislikeable and all from the same country, and hear a coherent argument as to why Hamilton is some level below the others.....

Fwiw none of them would feature in my top half dozen of all timers anyway!

I was just about to get the popcorn out.... but the final line of @EB's post brightened my day and I was back with it again. I agree with that

[Aty]

Lastly, until my very last day I will never put an equal sign between Schumacher's and Hamilton's achivements. Some people have nerve to do that, but I think it's insulting to former Ferrari driver. Max, on the other hand, now we are talking about a deserving champion!

Care to explain why? It's fairly obvious but no doubt you will try to justify it for more "acceptable" reasons and hide your true colours.

This sounds an awful lot like you're saying he is racist. I hope that's not the case.

We can dislike Lewis' padded achievements for reasons other than him being black.

It's not about personalities. Discourse about racing achievements involves statistics. We weigh the data with a focus on how regulatory conditions influenced competitive environments of different eras. If some fans think 2014 onwards were years of championships on fair and square to all teams, so be it. I am not one of them. I can still detect differences in having rivals racing next to you or having them hand-cuffed by tokens far behind you.

[XcraigX]

Schumacher and Hamilton are very much equal to each other with a slight edge to Hamilton because Schumacher crashed a lot more (into rivals and on his own).
Period of competitve rivals - yes
Period of car domionation - yes
Suspect teammates - yes

Their stats are alot closer than you think. The contentious opinion of each driver is close as well. Many people were calling Schumacher an unworthy champion at the time he was still in the Ferrari. It was a split opinion at the time (with people placing him far lower than Senna, Prost, Lauda, etc). Over the years the lens has changed and many more are now calling him great.

As for Max. He has potential, but has not really achieved much yet. Give it a few years. So far he is really just one better than Damon Hill.

[Star]

It's all about personal opinions too. If you like a driver you tend to talk up their achievements, if you don't like them, well then they're not as good are they?

I have personally never liked Lewis Hamilton or Kevin Magnussen. Now no one seems to care that I don't like K Mag, but in some circles if I say I don't like Hamilton I'm automatically a racist. I don't care what colour he is, I just don't like his attitude and personality.

I know the stats. are used as evidence about how good a driver is, but I do think our own personal opinions give weight to whether or not we conisder them as good as A. N. Other driver of similar stats. Personal preference is an individual thing and we're all entitled to them, even if they can lead to arguments when people disagree.

[DoubleFart]

When Lewis had rivals and a comparative car: 1 title out of 7
When Schumacher had rivals and a comparative car: 4 titles out of 8

That's the difference.

And I use rivals plural. As in outside of your teammate.

[XcraigX]

When Lewis had rivals and a comparative car: 1 title out of 7
When Schumacher had rivals and a comparative car: 4 titles out of 8

That's the difference.

And I use rivals plural. As in outside of your teammate.

Thats your opinion.
In 2017 Vettel had more wins than Mika Hakkinen did in 2000. 2018 and 2019 more of the same regarding rival competition. See what @Star posted above. It's very true.

So either Schumacher's championships weren't as competitive as you remember or Lewis' were more competitive than you are letting on. It's a matter of perspective depending on whether you like the driver or not. As I mentioned previously, time will likely change the public opinion on Lewis just like it did for Schumacher.
(Fixed the mention)

[Michael Ferner]

Another thing to consider is whether drivers were able to operate their cars themselves without being told what to do and when. Which is why I tend to agree with EB.

[DoubleFart]

When Lewis had rivals and a comparative car: 1 title out of 7
When Schumacher had rivals and a comparative car: 4 titles out of 8

That's the difference.

And I use rivals plural. As in outside of your teammate.

Thats your opinion.
In 2017 Vettel had more wins than Mika Hakkinen did in 2000. 2018 and 2019 more of the same regarding rival competition. See what @Star posted above. It's very true.

2000 - 4 in 17, but the McLaren took 7/17 and lost one to a track protester. Pretty much 50% for the car. The Ferrari took 10/17, which is 58%, but adjusted for the clear loss at Hock, and it's 53%

2017 - 5 in 20, and the Ferrari managed... 5 in 20. That's 25% for that car. The Merc meanwhile took 12/20, which is 60%.

The difference between the two titles is that the Merc was so good on its good days that Bottas, a Barrichello level driver, took 3 wins (15%) and 6 second places.

Rubens took 1, which was due to the protester, so 6% victory mark.

You cannot say Bottas is better than Rubens.