Did DTM kill itself this season?

[PTRACER]

I heard the final race of the season ended in a total shit show. Liam Lawson was aggressively punted off by his championship rival Van Der Linde on lap 1. The impact broke Liam's suspension and he continued the race, lapping 20 seconds a lap off the pace out of desperation.

Then Van Der Linde was punted off by the person who only had an outside chance of winning (Max Gotz). The Mercedes cars, from rival teams, then slowed dramatically to allow Gotz through to victory in the race.

On the official DTM highlights they decided to omit these parts but the comments say it all:

https://youtu.be/PzHtvxvzVhQ

[Cheeveer]

The battle between Götz and KVL was pretty cool, both desperate to make the most of the situation and karma prevailed. Lap 1 though was a bit of a shit-show, a real anti-climax, it was below KVL to do that but he had to be aggressive.

But, consider it this way: would Mercedes implement such team orders if they didn't care a lot about the championship? Would an Audi factory driver race like that if he hadn't been under enormous pressure? And is that not a good thing for the series that the manufacturers care that much about DTM still? It's the real deal in Germany. People aren't happy, DTM's Facebook page is in total chaos (poor social media manager), but at least strong feelings are there, compared to other championships (STCC ).

So no, DTM did not kill itself. It made a farce of itself, but come 2022 the stakes will be even higher.

[erwin greven]

Then Van Der Linde was punted off by the person who only had an outside chance of winning (Max Gotz).
https://youtu.be/PzHtvxvzVhQ

I disagree with that. Van der Linde went after the hairpin hard left and Götz had nowhere to go. That caused Van der Linde getting a LR puncture.

Watch this angle of the crash.
https://youtu.be/IjLd0Okas50?t=21

[SBan83]

Clueless observer here but I recently tuned into a DTM race on YouTube and saw a GT3 race instead. This did not compute for me at all. What part of touringwagen/touring car translates to GT3?

[MonteCristo]

Clueless observer here but I recently tuned into a DTM race on YouTube and saw a GT3 race instead. This did not compute for me at all. What part of touringwagen/touring car translates to GT3?

Yep.

That's a far bigger existential threat to DTM than drivers being naughty.

[Cheeveer]

Agreed. While the Merc SLS and the Beemer could somewhat classify as touring cars, the Ferraris, Audis and Lambos are way out of place. DTM needs to find its niche again.

Why isn't there something in between TCR and GT3? A high end performance saloon car formula, preferably with a second hand market so you get something in return for your investment.

Oh right, there is one coming in 2023.

[SBan83]

Agreed. While the Merc SLS and the Beemer could somewhat classify as touring cars, the Ferraris, Audis and Lambos are way out of place. DTM needs to find its niche again.

Why isn't there something in between TCR and GT3? A high end performance saloon car formula, preferably with a second hand market so you get something in return for your investment.

Oh right, there is one coming in 2023.

Yes! DTM should go back to something like this.

[PTRACER]

Then Van Der Linde was punted off by the person who only had an outside chance of winning (Max Gotz).
https://youtu.be/PzHtvxvzVhQ

I disagree with that. Van der Linde went after the hairpin hard left and Götz had nowhere to go. That caused Van der Linde getting a LR puncture.

Watch this angle of the crash.
https://youtu.be/IjLd0Okas50?t=21

You're right. I wonder what KVDL was playing at?

And yeah, as nice as GT3 racing is, I don't see the point in having every single series - including a Touring Car series - as GT3 cars.
The original DTM was quite special, but the manufacturers kept leaving.

So why not just bring back good old fashioned, regular road cars?

[Cheeveer]

And yeah, as nice as GT3 racing is, I don't see the point in having every single series - including a Touring Car series - as GT3 cars.
The original DTM was quite special, but the manufacturers kept leaving.

So why not just bring back good old fashioned, regular road cars?

DTM is stuck between a rock and hard place. The manufacturers didn't want the old regs, and there are no suitable replacement regs either. GT3 is near the old regs performance wise, but not very "touring car" like. TCR are touring cars, but front wheel drive and not very interesting or spectacular. There are established championships using both regs in Germany already. So what is DTM supposed to do here?

[DoubleFart]

What's wrong with BTCC regs, which are RWD and include BMW?

[Cheeveer]

What's wrong with BTCC regs, which are RWD and include BMW?

Nothing, really. Other than the German crowd probably wants something faster. NGTC is faster than TCR at least, right?

I saw the first Norisring race at a German hotel room, and the English broadcast got nothing on the German. It's the real thing.

[Everso Biggyballies]

And yeah, as nice as GT3 racing is, I don't see the point in having every single series - including a Touring Car series - as GT3 cars.
The original DTM was quite special, but the manufacturers kept leaving.

So why not just bring back good old fashioned, regular road cars?

DTM is stuck between a rock and hard place. The manufacturers didn't want the old regs, and there are no suitable replacement regs either. GT3 is near the old regs performance wise, but not very "touring car" like. TCR are touring cars, but front wheel drive and not very interesting or spectacular. There are established championships using both regs in Germany already. So what is DTM supposed to do here?

I t says it all when we are here discussing a Touring Car Series.... the thread for which is (rightfully by category of actual vehicle ie GT3, within the Sportscar sub forum!

[Andy]

I heard the final race of the season ended in a total shit show. Liam Lawson was aggressively punted off by his championship rival Van Der Linde on lap 1. The impact broke Liam's suspension and he continued the race, lapping 20 seconds a lap off the pace out of desperation.

Then Van Der Linde was punted off by the person who only had an outside chance of winning (Max Gotz). The Mercedes cars, from rival teams, then slowed dramatically to allow Gotz through to victory in the race.

On the official DTM highlights they decided to omit these parts but the comments say it all:

https://youtu.be/PzHtvxvzVhQ

Not really something new.
DTM killed itself when it went megalomaniac and turned into ITC. And would do the same thing again roughly a decade later when it claimed itself the formula one of touring cars, with silhouette cars of all things. It's been the farcial shit show above eversince the ITC had died and got even worse when only two manufacturers still took part in silhouette days. DTM tries to keep level with its past as a bare minimum.

.........
But, consider it this way: would Mercedes implement such team orders if they didn't care a lot about the championship? Would an Audi factory driver race like that if he hadn't been under enormous pressure? And is that not a good thing for the series that the manufacturers care that much about DTM still? It's the real deal in Germany. ......

Coming from Germany, I disagree with the final 6 words.
A show for the broad mass as much as its big idol, the F1. And in that rotten as well as corrupt.

[Cheeveer]

29 cars entered for 2022.
https://www.dailysportscar.com/2022/04/ ... -cars.html

No, DTM did not kill itself. As it usually is, there no such thing as bad press, only press. Nobody liked the Norisring debacle, but as I said at the time:

But, consider it this way: would Mercedes implement such team orders if they didn't care a lot about the championship? Would an Audi factory driver race like that if he hadn't been under enormous pressure? And is that not a good thing for the series that the manufacturers care that much about DTM still? It's the real deal in Germany. People aren't happy, DTM's Facebook page is in total chaos (poor social media manager), but at least strong feelings are there, compared to other championships (STCC ).

So no, DTM did not kill itself. It made a farce of itself, but come 2022 the stakes will be even higher.

In the long run, it did not hurt.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

I'm surprised the DTM is still going but glad to see that it is even if it did have to switch to GT3 regs in order to keep going.