[BTCC] 2008 Season

[kart99]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Oulton Park was packed to the rafters.

As was Knockhill, yesterday. There were around 28,000 poeple in Knockhill. And interestingly enough, there were a few thousand at Knockhill on the Saturday as well.

I dont really understand where this criticisim is coming from. The racing this year has been top notch - its provided more action in a race than the WTCC and definitly the DTM have manged all year. What more do you want? Alan Gows come back in, sorted the series out after the West years. Hes made changes which as far as I can see have done nothing but to benefit the championship. Attendences at tracks are near enough what they were in the late 90's (Knockhills crowd was the biggest since 1999), They have, lets face it, a brilliant television package now (although the presenters are a pain in the arse) which not only shows the BTCC, but support packages aswell - was that occuring in the 1990s.

I sometimes feel that people are looking back into their rose tinted glasses when they complain about the 3 race format, or bemoan the fact there are only two manufacturer backed teams in the championship. They seem to forget teams like Dynamics and WSR, and the fact there are pushing on 8 different manufactures in the championship. Manufacturer-backed teams will come (and if the rumours are true 1 other will be joining either 2009/10), but people have to understand that the BTCC that we have now is a completely different beast to the 1990s.

Gow, by implementing these changes has bascially created one of the best racing series out there, period. Its evolved and improved. It had to go through the bad times to bring back the good times. So stop bloody moaning about it.

[kals]

Wow this conversation has gone off at a tangent.

I dont really understand where this criticisim is coming from. The racing this year has been top notch

Not criticism, I refer back to my original comments about the three race format and the fact that race 2 often has a similar finishing order to race 1. That's just my opinion, like it or not. And that is what the conversation is about, not how great the TV package is or the crowd numbers....

That's sometimes the case. In others, we've had some cracking race 2 performances, Mat Jackson going from 18th-2nd at Croft being one.

Absolutely right, but it's been the majority of the rounds of the past couple of seasons. Croft was one of those that had different race 1 and race 2 winners, and that was mostly down to the weather. For me the BTCC has been worth watching for 2 reasons only this year, Giovanardi and Jackson. Again, my opinion...

I sometimes feel that people are looking back into their rose tinted glasses when they complain about the 3 race format

Paul mentioned about having stopped watching BTCC after 1999 and other than that nobody has made a looking through rose tinted glasses comment

So stop bloody moaning about it.

Sorry, I didn't realise you were sensitive. I'll be more thoughtful next time I want to express an opinion about a Championship which I have been following so closely for 20 years...

[lollipop dan]

My two cents on the BTCC - It's at the moment my favourite series after F1. Sure it has its weaker points, the cars are not as dramatic as ten years ago and the TDi's are to quick in a straight line, but nothing makes me shout at the TV like the BTCC.

Parts of race 3 at Knockhill were simply pure racing entertainment. I love watching Plato drive his butt off to close the championship gap, and then suffering the inevitable disaster in race 3. I love (and hate) how Gio always manages to avoid trouble and always comes out smelling of roses. Watching the various struggles of the privateers is so much fun as well.

Great series, hope it continues to grow.

[PTRACER]

All of my "heroes" (well, not heroes but favourite drivers) from the BTCC are all in the WTCC at the moment. Look at the grid and you'll find many of them were in the BTCC back in the mid-to-late 1990s.

[kals]

Who are your heroes Paul?

Sadly for me mine have all long since retired or passed away.

[PTRACER]

Heroes is definitely the wrong word..."Drivers I grew up watching" is more accurate. Yvan Muller, Gabrielle Tarquini, Rickard Rydell, Alain Menu, James Thompson...

The thing is - regardless of TV coverage - the BTCC had a high enough profile back in the 1990s to attract former Formula 1 drivers. Ok so there weren't many and they weren't all of the highest profile, but we still saw Nigel Mansell, Derek Warwick, Gianni Morbidelli, Gabrielle Tarquini, Jo Winkelhock and Tiff Needell taking part.

BTCC was pretty much the pinnacle of touring car racing in the late-90s - everyone aspired to drive in it. Most of the field in the late-90s was made up of drivers who had won the touring car championship in other countries, such as Roberto Ravaglia who won the ETCC championship twice, the WTCC once, the DTM once and the Italian Touring Car championship three times. Then you had David Leslie, who was a great driver in the WSC in the 1980s driving in the C2 class.

BTCC was a truly international series back then...Only two non-Brits in the field these days, while the majority of the rest of the field have very little racing pedigree compared to their predecessors of a decade ago.

[Cheeveer]

STCC is pretty cool too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0sOVq3yK0A

[kals]

Heroes is definitely the wrong word..."Drivers I grew up watching" is more accurate. Yvan Muller, Gabrielle Tarquini, Rickard Rydell, Alain Menu, James Thompson...

The thing is - regardless of TV coverage - the BTCC had a high enough profile back in the 1990s to attract former Formula 1 drivers. Ok so there weren't many and they weren't all of the highest profile, but we still saw Nigel Mansell, Derek Warwick, Gianni Morbidelli, Gabrielle Tarquini, Jo Winkelhock and Tiff Needell taking part.

BTCC was pretty much the pinnacle of touring car racing in the late-90s - everyone aspired to drive in it. Most of the field in the late-90s was made up of drivers who had won the touring car championship in other countries, such as Roberto Ravaglia who won the ETCC championship twice, the WTCC once, the DTM once and the Italian Touring Car championship three times. Then you had David Leslie, who was a great driver in the WSC in the 1980s driving in the C2 class.

BTCC was a truly international series back then...Only two non-Brits in the field these days, while the majority of the rest of the field have very little racing pedigree compared to their predecessors of a decade ago.

That was a massive sell for the series, and it was back then the best touring car series in the world (DTM/ITC aside). However that influx international drivers was also a problem because it meant British drivers in the lower Formulas like Ford Fiestas and Renault Clios couldn't find any decent works drives, or much funding for the privateer championship. Really, during the 90's boom only Menu (yes I know he's Swiss but he spent almost his entire junior career in England), Plato and Bintcliffe managed to progress into works drives. Nowadays drivers can more easily progress from Clios or Seats, but there aren't enough International drivers.

[OSNOF]

Heroes is definitely the wrong word..."Drivers I grew up watching" is more accurate. Yvan Muller, Gabrielle Tarquini, Rickard Rydell, Alain Menu, James Thompson...

The thing is - regardless of TV coverage - the BTCC had a high enough profile back in the 1990s to attract former Formula 1 drivers. Ok so there weren't many and they weren't all of the highest profile, but we still saw Nigel Mansell, Derek Warwick, Gianni Morbidelli, Gabrielle Tarquini, Jo Winkelhock and Tiff Needell taking part.

BTCC was pretty much the pinnacle of touring car racing in the late-90s - everyone aspired to drive in it. Most of the field in the late-90s was made up of drivers who had won the touring car championship in other countries, such as Roberto Ravaglia who won the ETCC championship twice, the WTCC once, the DTM once and the Italian Touring Car championship three times. Then you had David Leslie, who was a great driver in the WSC in the 1980s driving in the C2 class.

BTCC was a truly international series back then...Only two non-Brits in the field these days, while the majority of the rest of the field have very little racing pedigree compared to their predecessors of a decade ago.

At the end of the 1990s, there was no DTM and no WTCC, nor even an ETCC. That left the BTCC, the ITCC and the Spanish TCC as the biggest three, and there was plenty of top-line talent to go around. When those series came back, you saw manufacturers and inevitably drivers go back to them. And then you have the damage that West made, which Gow is still trying to fix. Maybe it'll come back to where it was in the 1990s, but I'm perfectly happy with where it is now.

And yes, we may have just 2 internationals, one of whom with an unpronouncable surname, but the other is the most successful active touring car driver today. As much as I dislike him, Plato is also a popular person, even to the extent of having his own TV show. The BTCC still has name value.

[Cheeveer]

At the end of the 1990s, there was no DTM and no WTCC, nor even an ETCC. That left the BTCC, the ITCC and the Spanish TCC as the biggest three, and there was plenty of top-line talent to go around.

German STW had much more international coverage than ITCC and the Spanish championship. At the time, I had never heard of them two, and I have yet to see any footage from those two championships. Also the S(Swedish)TCC had the biggest field by 1999 and had plenty of international "stars" visiting (Christian Abt, Roberto Colciago, David Leslie, Kelvin Burt), all of them getting soundly beaten except Colciago.

[HC]

I've just seen the third race from the Knockhill circuit and I'm disgusted by the driving standards of the Vauxhalls. First there's Onslow-Cole who tries to imitate Neal's drive at Thruxton last year. Now defense driving isn't illegal but taken someone off certainly is. Whether it was a rough pass from Plato I don't know (it wasn't shown on the telly). However Jason admitted it wasn't the cleanest pass so I guess it was. But that did not give Tom the right to take off a championship contender. Wrecking on the straights is always stupid. Ten there's of course Matt Neal who hits, well I can better say who he didn't hit. First he hammers his former teammate, Shedden, into the gravel and later on does the same with Turkington. He hit him so hard that the suspension broke. He was driving like a kamikaze pilot. If I was the race director I would penalize both and have them sit out a race.

Obviously the championship is now over. Although I would rather see a real fight between Gio and Plato I do think Fabrizio deserves it. While his teammates have been crashing around he's been banging in the points. And driving as clean as possible, that more reminds me of previous Vauxhall drivers like Muller and Thompson.

[OSNOF]

That's touring car racing. Plato tried to keep Onslow-Cole on the grass after the corner, something that he wasn't happy about, and he decided to force his way back on. Plato suffers, meh, no skin off of my nose.

Matt hit Shedden because he was punted sideways by Turkington long before the corner- he couldn't stop himself from hitting Shedden. And 2 laps later both he and Shedden paid Turkington back. Fair's fair.

[HC]

There was only the rear camera of Shedden that captured the incident and I'm not sure that Turkington had anything to do with it.

It more seemed like Neal was angry that he ran into the back of the Civic and almost losing it. Thus trying to do anything do keep Turk behind and before he knows it he's hit Shedden. Yeah, touring car racing is rough but somewhere you need to draw the line and only penalties will keep drivers from doing the same thing next round. I remember in 2004 at Silverstone, Reid was just driving rough but the series decided to hand him a penalty. These days everything seems golden.

[kart99]

There was only the rear camera of Shedden that captured the incident and I'm not sure that Turkington had anything to do with it.

No, Turkington was the cause certainly of that incident. He went far to late into Carlube and touched Neal, who was already sticking his nose inside Shedden. Contact ensued and it pushed both Neal and Shedden wide. Really wasnt Neal or Shedden's fault that one.

Still not sure about the Onslow-Cole and Plato incident. In my opinion it was a bit tit-for-tat. Plato pushed O-C wide and left him with no where to go, while O-C moved across on Plato.

And Kieran. I am sorry, my posts werent actually directed to you. But I would say you arent the only one who has followed it as closely as you have. I have watched every race, that I can, since 1994

[kals]

Some good racing at a wet Silverstone today and Giovanardi, barring a disaster at Brands Hatch has all but won the Championship now. Gio has been great for the BTCC since he joined, but I lost a little respect for him today thanks to his bruising performance in race 2 and his pathetic excuses for his actions during the post race interview live on TV! SEAT and Darren Turner in particular were right to feel very agrieved after race 2 after Giovanardi decided to blatantly remove Turner from the race, only shortly after trying to bump him out of the way. Just a couple of laps later Gio spun Mat Jackson out of the way, instead of backing off and avoiding an incident. As I mentioned in the WTCC thread, I feel very let down by Touring Car racing today. After the race Giovanardi was summoned to the stewards, and let off without punishment! FFS That's absurd! The other Vauxhalls behaved in the seemingly normal manner, bumping people left right and centre. Seriously now, when is someone at TOCA going to take some action here? To use the immortal words of John Cleland "This is not stock car racing, this is motorsport!"

[OSNOF]

As far as Turner is concerned, he was asking for it after his actions at the end of race 1. Gio gave him one tap at Maggots, and ran him into the gravel at Woodcote to stop him getting traction. Even Ben and Tim could see it coming judging by their comments after race 1.

With Jackson, Gio says he fucked up on the brakes and slid into him. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. What I do know is that he passed Plato completely cleanly 2 laps later.

And of course Gio wasn't going to get punished. Jackson didn't file a complaint, and the stewards are so sick of SEAT moaning to them about everything they can that they don't listen. About bloody time.

And Cleland should stop being a hypocrite. Although I did like his line regarding the designer of that retarded T1 at Oschersleben.