Supercars Gen 3 Discussion thread

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Everso Biggyballies
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#46

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
theracer120 wrote: 2 years ago They're keeping the manual :flag:

https://www.supercars.com/news/champion ... -for-gen3/
YES> Great news ...... Common sense and my God a series that listens to the fans and drivers for once. :twothumbs: :drunk: :mates:
Interesting to see the post decision poll on Speedcafe of "Did they make the right decision.to stay with stick shift" is 88% Yes with 12% No. So clearly a win for the stay with the stick.

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#47

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Supercars cans Gen3 test to install new gear shifter system

No surprises there and tbh it makes sense to hold off whilst they do the changes to the final gear selection oily bits now they have confirmed they are using a stick shift and not paddle.

Supercars has elected not to run its Gen3 prototypes as planned in pre-season testing this week at Winton Motor Raceway to fast-track the installation of its sequential stick shift.

Earlier this month the category confirmed it would not adopt paddle shift and automatic throttle blip and will instead continue using the gearbox configuration as it appears in the Gen2 cars.

Plans were in place for Supercars to continue testing the new-look Ford Mustang and all-new Chevrolet Camaro tomorrow and Wednesday at Winton Motor Raceway.

However, the testing programme has been put on hold until the gearbox configuration is revised.

“I think we all knew deep down what the fans wanted,” Supercars head of motorsport Adrian Burgess said.

“We knew what the drivers wanted, I think it was a very easy decision, and it was obviously the right one. We just had to go through the process before we could come out with it.

“Now we’ve made the decision, we’ve moved on. There are a couple of mods we’ll do to the car, we’re changing the selector slightly for what they call the NASCAR-spec selector.

“Because we’ve had to design the car around doing either, there were compromises within the design to be able to go paddle or to go stick shift.

“There are some parts that are due this week from Xtrac [Supercars transaxle supplier], so we didn’t see the point in going to Winton with paddle shift again when we need to get the gear shift in.

“We need to be able to then make sure the engines are built correctly because the engine will be susceptible to over-revs now as it is currently.

“A little bit of hardware will change in the engines and the mapping now that these engines are different to drive with a single throttle body.

“It wasn’t worth us testing with paddle shift still and wasting two days where we’re not really going to learn anything, so the correct decision is just to sit back and wait a little bit and get these things installed in the car correctly.

“We’ve got to remember these are prototypes and this is what you do with prototypes, you make changes, you find things, and then you fix them before you make 26 of them.

“We’re not stressed about it. We’re still on track with some of the other key timelines and decision timelines that we’ve got going forwards. So yes, it’s the right thing to do.”

As a result of the decision to ditch paddle shift, some chassis floor reinforcement will need to happen to account for the lever.

The engines themselves will have to be strengthened too, although Burgess doesn’t envisage a cost increase given the expensive electronic actuators will be ditched.

“We’ll probably change some of the top end a little bit,” said Burgess.

“Paddle shift, you can stop it from over-revving. With a manual, you won’t. The drivers, if they get it wrong, will still buzz them.

“We will just put some different valve rockers in and make some different valve springs, a couple of small changes.

“It won’t really affect the price of the engine, it will be just a more robust part compared to the safety of having a paddle shift.

“It won’t slow us down, it won’t slow the programme down or anything. The engines are already being modified now. It’s not a big issue.”

As for when the prototypes will be back on track, Burgess hasn’t set a date.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/21/su ... w-shifter/

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#48

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

PR wank alert

Not so much in Tanders case as he is still (last year) a driver in enduros, but Ambrose was retired and gone LONG before (like 10years+ than even Gen 2 first came along.
Supercars champions Marcos Ambrose and Garth Tander are set to get their first taste of the category’s Gen3 prototypes at Symmons Plains later this month.

Ambrose, who won the 2003 and 2004 drivers’ titles, will get behind the wheel of the Ford Mustang while 2007 champion Tander will sample the Chevrolet Camaro.

The pair will have their first run on Friday, prior to the Repco Supercars Championship field rolling out that weekend.

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#49

Post by theracer120 »

Ambrose is actually returning to racing proper this year albeit in the 6 Hour so it's not super out of left field.
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#50

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

theracer120 wrote: 2 years ago Ambrose is actually returning to racing proper this year albeit in the 6 Hour so it's not super out of left field.
Yeah, im just thinking over 15 years out of Supercars and no racing experience of Gen 2 Supercars doesnt make him that relevant for developing Gen 3 beyond the publicity benefits. But that might be based on my not being much of a fan of his back in the day. ( No I have never been a Holden or Ford one eyed fan, and my preferences have always been driver related whatever they drive.)

But I guess i've mellowed over the years as I quite enjoy him in the Supercars broadcasts when around. :huh:

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#51

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Gen 3 is still plodding along being developed and still the plan is to launch the new concept from round 1 in 2023. The cars have been tested regularly and have become part of the furniture at Supercars rounds doing demos as part of the support package. Some teams are starting to get concerned that with the final spec still not put to bed that building enough new cars in time for round 1 is going to become a struggle. That of course is compounded by the fact that the old Gen 2 cars become obsolete overnight in terms of the Supercars main sries, so multi car teams like BJR will no doubt struggle. It is also becoming a factor with guys like Blanchard who wanted to expand to a two car entry in 2023. I think he has already put that idea to bed as not viable due to the lateness of a final product.

To make things potentially more difficult Supercars have today announced some major changes to the design of the cars in multiple areas.

Gen3 Supercar going through late redesign

Revisions are being made to a number of components, the most significant of which is a width increase to the engine bay.

While the wheelbase and outside of the car will not be any different, more space has been made to the area in which the engines will be housed (basically expanding the engine bay)..... this being to accommodate a request, made early in the project, to improve the space teams have to work with in the engine bay of the Gen3 cars.

Jamie Whincup, (as Principal of T888, the GM Homologation team, shed light on the redesign of the control chassis, which is nearing completion in what will be its latest iteration.

His comments I have to say come across as a bit confused, trying to (verbally) minimise the nature of the changes yet at the same time saying yes its going to be a time pressure but it will be great when its done.
“It’s actually just the chassis, so the front clip underneath all the bodywork,”

“So the wheelbase, and the width of the car will be exactly the same on the outside, just the inside, underneath the bodywork, we have what we call the front clip, which forms part of the chassis.

“We’re just finishing that design now for the category.

“And it is going to be a little bit wider than it originally was to give the engine a little bit more room to be able to put in and out.”

There will also be some front suspension changes to allow greater adjustability.

“So they came early in the piece to say, ‘oh, we’d like a bit more room here’,” Whincup added.

“And then we went, ‘okay, but the front end is already designed’, but then we’re like, ‘hang on…now we need to change it [anyway] [because] we want adjustable roll bars.

“Now we want all these other things. Okay, let’s go and redesign the front end and while we’re doing that, yeah, let’s accommodate [the] request to have a little bit more room.

“Why wouldn’t you do that? We’ve just made the design better; so that’s how the whole process occurred.

“And yeah, it’s late, but we’re going to end up with a better car for the design change.

“So I’d rather redesign it, which we are doing now and have a better thing rollout next year than not [and instead] just have a little bit more time to manufacture.”
They need to get it finalised bloody soon otherwise some teams will struggle to build up the new cars. Dont forget the actual chassis is a ready made third party supply item. (PACE innovations, although some of the sub structures are being built by some of the teams)

The issue is that the suppliers cant just press a button and produce 30 odd chassis overnight once the final designed, developed, tested and confirmed as the final spec...

That final spec has to be finalised soon, and they are faffing around making fairly significant changes still. Yes they need to get it right but in these days of supply chain struggles there has to be a timely cut off point, a D-Day, when they commit to producing the bloody stuff without any more last minute changes. And it has to be soon.

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#52

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Maybe I have been a bit harsh in my criticism of Gen 3 being, as seemed from reports and fears within the paddock, a long way behind schedule and indeed some teams fearful of being able to have cars ready for the first race of the year.

Updates of the situation from Supercars released today seem to have a more positive vibe to them. Having said that much of the detail is by nature of stuff promised expected and planned to be available.... very different to the teams are now in a position to build cars.

I also picked up in the release that it suggests "some teams" (ie the homologation teams and those such as T8 building their own cars} being ready to test in December. But then later saying but that might be January. Which realistically is late Feb for customer cars......

However this latest update does give me a belief that although likely a struggle we will get the cars to the opening round, even if some will be suffering from minimal pre season track time. Sadly the T888's and DJR homologation teams will be a long way ahead of the customer cars in development and thus pace. There will be a team learning curve for all the quirks and differences between Gen 2 and 3, from how to adjust settings, change engines, and much of the stuff they could do with their total familiarity and with eyes shut almost.

I will say though how good and more in scale with the real car the Gen 3 Mustang is. The Camaro looks good too. The Gen 2 version of. the Mustang as we know was a body shaped and stretched to fit a Ford Falcon 4 door saloon car chassis and cage.

Pics below of the Gen 3 side profile of the test / development mules.

Image



Delivery of full Gen3 Supercars field expected in December

Supercars’ Head of Motorsport, Adrian Burgess, predicts some teams will be testing their Gen3 cars in December.

Production of the next generation of Supercar chassis is now underway, ahead of their competitive debut in a Newcastle season-opener tentatively scheduled for March 10-12.

Gen3 has recently gone through a late redesign, potentially adding to turn-around pressures for teams, who may need to assemble cars over the Christmas break.

Walkinshaw Andretti United, Erebus Motorsport, and Triple Eight will construct their own chassis, while PACE Innovations will turn around another batch of builds for select teams to then assemble themselves.

Burgess gave an update on the timeline of Gen3’s rollout, outlining the project is on track, with an expected delivery of chassis to teams in December.

“You always want more time, that’s just life,”

“We’re on track; we’re certainly not saying it’s easy, there will be a lot of work between now and the end of the year.

“Hopefully the cars will run in team hands in December, but if not, it’ll be January. That’s what we’re working towards.

“Chassis are back in production now; we obviously had to halt production while we did the big ergonomic changes earlier.

“So the four manufacturers that are making the chassis are back in production there.

“Every seven or eight days there’ll be another chassis from [PACE]; I think they‘re making 15 or 16 cars so they’ve got quite a good production plan in how quickly they can make them.”

It’s the finalising and signing off of the various control components that is also a time-critical point, enabling teams to begin manufacturing parts for the in-house assembly phase.

“The fuel systems are being made now…the teams are making rear suspension, they’re making uprights, spindles,” explained Burgess.

“A lot of that information has gone out to the teams and they’re starting to manufacture.

“The further we go in the programme, we’re signing off on a lot more parts.

“We’re trying to give the teams as much information as we can, but equally, we’ve got to make sure we validate it correctly and sign it off correctly before we hand the information over.

“Otherwise, there’s going to be a million updates and they’re going to be making stuff that’s redundant.

“So we don’t want to do that, obviously. Every time we go testing, we’re finalising or validating particular parts, and then that information gets released.”

As reported last month, Triple Eight is in fact ahead of schedule on its eight Chevrolet Camaro builds.

It could present a situation where some teams are on track testing before others, based upon assembly timelines.

Burgess affirmed the process will run smoothly.

“It’s certainly not perfect. And it never is,” he added.

“We’re comfortable and the teams know they’ve got a good amount of work in front of them.

“But this is what they do, and this is what we will do together, and we’ll make it as painless as we can.

“Everyone’s confident we’ll be on the grid with 25 cars next March and hopefully we’ve got a number of those testing towards the end of this season.

“If it’s not December, then January then we should be out with the full field.”
https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/08/05/de ... -december/

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#53

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Huge cost blowout for Gen 3.... like double budgeted!

Yeah im not joking. But Supercars say they have not lost their minds and there are benefits.

Remember when the idea of Gen 3 was launched it was touted as being a far cheaper base package than the current Gen2 models.
Hasnt quite worked out that way.

In 2020, the target for Gen 3 was under $350,000 per car, including the engine. however, recent estimations suggest the end figure could be roughly double that.

Supercars are not concerned justifying the doubled initial cost on the basis of improved longevity of components for Gen3 leading to a cost benefit down the track. They are also saying team owners are part of the steering group that approved everything.

It seems to me there is a lot of buckpassing going on plus the inevitable "current world situation" as a justification of anything and everything.

Adrian Burgess of Supercars had this to say...
“I don’t think any product in the world is hitting the target of where it wants to be compared to where we were two years ago,” Burgess said, referencing supply chain constraints.

“So clearly, the car has become a little bit more expensive than we would have liked.

“But a lot of those things are completely out of our control with COVID. Would you like it cheaper? Of course you would.

“We’re trying to build a platform that will be good for us for the next five-six-seven-eight-nine years.

“We’re not trying to build a cheap racecar, we’re trying to build a good product that will last us for a good amount of time.

“So we’ve put quality pumps in the car, we made sure we put the best refuelling system in the car, we made sure we put a heated windscreen in the car. We haven’t saved.

“All these things have been done in conjunction with the teams and in full support of the teams or the Steering Group.

“We have taken some decisions — that have cost us maybe 20 grand — collectively as a group but to make sure we’ve got the best product we can.”

A focus for the new formula has been on standardisation, a leading factor in the move to control parts.

That way componentry, such as suspension, is the same for the entire grid, with the idea of bringing teams onto a more level playing field.

“There’s no point in me trying to give you a number. Clearly we track what the car is going to cost us and clearly we’ve got an eye on cost,” added Burgess.

“We’re trying to work as a series to make sure we manufacture in bulk and we achieve the best price for everyone by doing things in volume as opposed to one-offs.”

Burgess insisted Supercars continues to have the teams’ backs, though is confident each organisation is well-versed in what needs to be done.

“It’s not for me to get into how the teams fund it. The series is here to support them and it has been supporting our teams through this process,” he commented.

“Generally, a team will build a new car every second or third season, so they’re actually sort of going through this process on their own.
What I dont understand is they say decisions relating to better quality components have added $20,000 to a car cost. The target ws 350K, and 20=370K..... yet the cost is projected to be nearly double the 350K. So a cost blowout of 300 grand. Something doesnt add up. Yes we know motor racing is expensive but justifying the change to Gen 3 as being a cost saver? Hmmm.

I wonder what a privateer set up[ like Brad Jones, running 4 cars think. 4 cars budgeted originally at a total of $1.4 million are now likely to be $2.5 million. Most two car teams will need a spare car for back up, so that is 3 needed per team.

And the teams need all new cars on day 1 given Gen 2 cars become obsolete and ineligible overnight come the end of this season. A few will get sold to Super 2.

Burgess said in the above they are not tying to build a cheap racecar. Well they have succeeded in that. But they promised a much cheaper car to build than Gen 2.... that appears to not have been achieved.

They need to hope like hell the longevity of components is phenomenal.

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#54

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

We have not had much addition to this thread of late, as the teams are now busy building their cars in readyness for shakedowns and testing before the season opens on Mar 10 - 12 for the Thrifty Newcastle 500.

Sounds easy.... however most are aware that the original plan was for cars to have been ready for testing by now to give the teams time to learn about their totally new machines. The original December target was soon out of the window.... then a target of mid January became late January with a target for shakedown with the Victorian squads to head to Winton on Tuesday January 24, while Queensland-based teams will test at Queensland Raceway on Monday, January 30.

Southern teams will test again at Winton on Tuesday, February 7, while the Queensland squads will head to the Ipswich venue on Thursday, February 9.

The testing programme is set to be completed at Sydney Motorsport Park on Wednesday, February 22, where all teams will come together for final preparations ahead of the 2023 season.

REALITY CHECK TIME

But.... even today they are still fine tuning the prototypes and running them.

Teams are saying that shakedowns wont happen until well into February.

Erebus has today announced that things they have control over are on schedule.... that includes control items where the teams have the choice of buying them in or manufacturing in house.

What is not happening is the actual Supercars directed control parts. Team builds are currently stalled awaiting these external control parts.

Erebus Motorsport has issued an “honest update” on the progress of its Gen3 Camaro Supercars, predicting it will shake them down in mid-February. They have outlined the problems in an open letter.
Now to an honest update on where Erebus is up to on our car builds. We chose a direction different from most other teams and committed to building our own chassis in house under the direction of our long term “welder” James White. James is a brilliant person, fabricator, engineer and designer but prefers the term “I’m just a dumb welder”. Our Gen3 chassis and clips will arguably be the best in the category and that’s where we wanted our base to start.

The rest of the build comes down to the control components that we could choose to source from other avenues or to make in house. We carefully selected the best manufactures we know from years of experience and have made everything so far via these lines. Control parts we have no choice and no control over, and need to purchase via the accredited manufacturer.

All components we have assembled in house under the leadership of Brad Tremain (Crew Chief) and Brad Packham (Chief Mechanic). The attention to detail is where gains can be made in Gen3 and I think we have already made many gains without turning a lap.

Controlled component delays is where we are currently stalled in our car builds.

Delays with controlled components is what currently stalls our car builds. We don’t have engines, exhausts, air boxes, radiator ducts, front splitters, front crash bars, dashboards, leg protection/drivers floor trays (both these items are now for us to make), rear wings, uprights and several designs and items we are expecting for assembly direction.

We could send out a picture of a car on wheels and pretend we are nearly ready but that would be misleading and simply waste critical time that can be spent making things better.

That’s not Erebus. As someone wise once said to me, always use the six P’s: Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance!

Erebus will shake our cars down and test when we have 100% complete cars. Testing an incomplete car without proper initial set up time is a waste of everyone’s time
The dates Erebus are aiming for are a couple of weeks shy of what supercars are talking up. They are targeting a shakedown February 13-15..... dates recently identified by Supercars as a back-up plan for the southern-based teams.

Basically they are trying to achieve a shakedown date a week after Supercars have test dates planned. And teams are still awaiting control supercars parts from controlled suppliers.

I guess the homologation teams, T8 and DJR are in the box seat and will be first cab off the block. But T8 also are building a number of customer cars as well.

Hopefully we get a full grid of cars come Newcastle.

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#55

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Further to my ramble of non availability of parts above yesterday, Supercars have today announced that the teams are getting one engine each (each team of two cars gets one engine).

And they will be allocated by lottery! Just so there is no "T8 got a better engine than I did" whinges. No word on when they will get their full engine allocation of 2 per car.

It doesnt really seem very satisfactory.
While Herrod and KRE are the incumbent suppliers for the respective homologation teams (among others), the powerplants are being distributed through Supercars’ engine specialist, Craig Hasted.

Cragsted Race Engines, Hasted’s company, dynamometer tests each unit before it is sent but, to absolutely stave off any suggestion of bias, they will also be randomly allocated up and down pit lane.

The process is now underway, with one engine initially distributed for every two cars in a team, meaning six for the Ford squads and seven for their Chevrolet counterparts.

It is believed that lottery was conducted in recent days, using a computerised random number generator, with the competitors fielding Mustangs to receive those engines as soon as today but more likely early next week.

Tickford Racing will get two from the first draw given it runs four cars, with one each for Dick Johnson Racing, Walkinshaw Andretti United and Grove Racing.

Blanchard Racing Team will also receive one engine as, being the only single-car outfit in the field, it is necessarily an exception to the one-per-two allocation from the first tranche.

Ultimately, each entry (car) will have two engines.
It sounds like a circus.

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#56

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Supercars Commission meets amidst chaotic Gen3 builds

I mentioned above about delays in delivery of control parts affecting the builds of new cars and how teams are struggling to meet any of the end January shakedown dates and also the first weeeks of general testing set for c 7th February..

The situation seems to be enough to have sparked a bit of a crisis meeting of the Supercrs Commission (the body which consists of key figures from the Supercars organisation, as well as team representatives, and makes recommendations on matters both sporting and technical to the Supercars board.

Apparently it is now looking like possibly only one car will be able to meet the shakedown date on Feb 1. Perhaps only the Blanchard Ford Mustang and even they are not a cert. I guess they have the advantage of only one car to build, but it strikes me as odd, if the delay is on control parts not manufactured by the teams, thaat any team can have everything needed, especially a team that I would classify as a bit of a minnow in terms of resources.

it’s now suggested that the delays in parts supply that have limited build progress across all teams may mean a Gen3 Supercar in race trim will not turn a wheel on a racetrack anywhere in the country until mid-February.

Not really covered in the press, but the biggest worry to me is that even if all the cars are ready for Newcastle, surely spares will become an issue if these parts are so unobtainable.

Especially given that everything is new and untried other than in prototype form. It has to impact on how hard the cars will be driven at Newcastle, knowing a breakage, or accident damage in practice or qualy will likely put a car on the sidelines early in the weekend with no spares available.

This of course will be compounded by the unforgiving nature of Newcastle as a layout, made worse by no data and testing to sort or understand the cars.... which lets not forget apparently have 60% less downforce than the Gen 2 cars everyone is used to.

Not ideal. Hopefully its all been over dramatised but given the widespread comment by the teams clearly things are not 100%. No one has put their hand up and said we are certain to make shakedown on Feb 1, either Queenland or Victoria teams, Mustang or Camaro. Not even the DJR / T888 homologation teams.

"What could possibly go wrong" springs to mind. :wink: :haha:

Full latest story https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/01/25/su ... n3-builds/

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#57

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

It gets more ridiculous by the day.....

Triple Eight and DJR to miss Gen3 Supercars shakedown test

These are the two homologation teams of course. Not only that T888 are also building customer cars which one would imagine would be in no better position or state of readiness.

Having confirmed they will miss the 30th Jan scheduled shakedown for Queensland teams, both T888 and DJR are now hoping to be able to shakedown on Feb 7th in Queensland.

Matt Stone Racing has also confirmed via social media that it won’t be at QR this Monday. They blame it specifically on lack of parts...."we simply don’t have the parts to turn out a single complete car." "Instead our focus is now on February 7."

Victorian based teams are facing the same challenges for their Feb 1 shakedown target. Erebus is targetting the planned test day of Feb 13th as their shakedown target. BJR might have 1 or 2 of their 4 cars ready earlier and Cooldrive also hope to be ready for Feb 1st.

Its a bloody joke that the parts holding things up are the. Supercars fixed supplier items.
Im not even sure that Ford have had their car even officially homologated yet, with rear wing specifications and stuff still to be finalised.

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#58

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

And todays news re the ongoing farce of Gen 3 lack of parts and delays in building cars able to test.
What a bloody circus. Couldnt run an orgy in a brothel or a piss up in a brewery this mob. :nuts: :nah:
At least they have made the right call on the original testing dates.....

Supercars abandons Gen3 test dates

Supercars has abandoned its structured Gen3 testing plan in favour of a ‘flexible testing program’ after teams unanimously voted for changes in light of the ongoing build issues

Pre-empting the genuine possibility of empty racetracks, the previously set shakedown and test dates have been abolished, with teams now able to test independently of others and at a time of their choosing. This enables teams to test individual cars, whereas testing is typically for a team, not a specific vehicle.

The previous 60km mileage limit for each car’s shakedown has also been removed, with unlimited mileage now permitted.

The first shakedown was scheduled for January 30 at Queensland Raceway before a February 1 outing for southern-based teams at Winton, with tests days booked for February 7 at Winton and February 9 at Queensland Raceway.

The all-in test at Sydney Motorsport Park on February 22 remains in place.


The other major issue that still remains is that it is my understanding that the cars have still been undergoing various aero parity tests after Ford in the US objected to certain ongoings in the process that favoured GM.

As we stand I dont believe the Fords have even been signed off with a confirmed homologated rear wing and splitter package..

Barry Ryan (Erebus CEO) had suggested that teams that could make the shakedown – whether with completed Gen3 race cars, or Gen3 cars that were non-compliant and rushed to the track with non-homologated parts – were at a significant advantage to those who could not.

At present teams still only have 1 engine per team (BJR hasve 2 because they have 4 cars. That I think is about to change this next week with second engines scheduled for delivery.

I have been saying for the last couple of weeks, spares of anything are going to be a huge issue at Newcastle.

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#59

Post by Vassago »

This kinda reminds me of all the hoopla in the 80s when they had to ship parts from Europe as even most 'works' Holden cars were build there (apparently only HRT had a genuine shop in Australia). Homologation issues also sounds all too familiar. Really shouldn't even be a footnote in 2023...
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#60

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

As most will be aware most of the Supercars teams have, albeit way behind schedule, at least done a shakedown run with their Gen 3 cars. The delays were generally blames on a lck of parts to build the cars.

SUpercars themselves have copped a lot of flack for the delays, and indeed a late finalisation of spec on the cars, with engine parity and aero parity at the top of that list.

The engine parity, with the exception of some uncertainty and argument over ECU mapping in relation to gearbox change points.

In the last couple of weeks Ford have been very vocal in terms of their belief they are disadvantaged in the specification that was set. Indeed confusion arose as to whether the final aero packages had indeed been signed off. A state of confusion exists to ay the least.....

Todays news only give cause foir the confusion to rise, despite the cars now testing and the Newcastle season start fast approaching. (March 10th)....

Gen3 Supercars set for further aero testing


Supercars is likely to conduct further aerodynamic testing on its Gen3 cars before the season starts. The tests known as VCAT (Vehicle Control Aerodynamic Test) were initially done on an airfield as it has always been, back in November. AFAIK VCAT Validation (the final spec for the Ford and Chev cars) has still not been confirmed.

It seems the arguments currently surround not so much the overall / total downforce variance of the two brands but more relates to the balance of front and rear downforce. The target of Gen 3 was for the cars to have less overall downforce.... by about 65% over Gen 2.

The problem, according to figures from both sides, is , the Mustang either has or is claimed to have more front downforce and less at the rear than the Camaro.

That would make the Ford a better qualifying car, at least at most tracks which the Championship visits, but give the Chevrolet the upper hand over a race distance.

One prominent paddock figure said recently, “Right now, they reckon that the Fords will be faster over a lap but the Chevy’s are going to win all the races."

“The way the aero balance has worked out, [the Mustang has] got too much front and not enough rear, and the Chevy’s the opposite.

“Obviously, over a distance, you always want rear downforce for tyre life, especially when you’ve got less aero – the tyre’s going to chew out more, especially at the rear.”

It is believed that VSDs, defined in the Supercars Operations Manual as “vehicle specification document containing the relevant requirements which are specific for a particular make and model of Car”, have not been finalised despite an Operations Manual now being issued for the 2023 season.
Whether the additional aero testing takes place at an airfield or as part of the general circuit testing seems to be undecided.... just that there might / maybe / will be additional aero testing undertaken. Perhaps. :dunno: :huh: :nuts:

WHAT. A. BLOODY. SHAMBLES.

Conjecture on my part..... As an aside I had noticed that the finished Chev's now have endplates on the front splitter but the Ford is open ended. I wondered why that would be but I guess with todays news it is a move to increase front end on the Chevs and reduce the Ford front end downforce..(They were initially both similar on the prototypes in testing.)
Obviously an endplate will concentrate more air to increase front downforce than the unfenced Ford version which allows air to spill off the end.

Here is a pic first of the Chev showing the fence / endplate on the end of Chev front splitter

Image


And the Ford equivalent without endplate.

Image

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