[BTCC & Supports] 2012 Discussion - BTCC 2012 is go!

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#301

Post by PTRACER »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Brands Hatch used to provide the beat racing of the year, it must be the cars that are shite, just like F1.
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#302

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Both Plato and Neal are equal in the 'being a twat' stakes. Both equally embarrassing at times.
PTRACER wrote:Brands Hatch used to provide the best racing of the year, it must be the cars that are shite, just like F1.
Maybe it is just the drivers don't have the class of their predecessors.

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#303

Post by kals »

Everso Biggyballies wrote:Maybe it is just the drivers don't have the class of their predecessors.
This infinity! :thumbsup:

As for Plato now having a car advantage thanks to the Honda's being pegged back well, given HOW much advantage the turbos had for the first few meetings then it is about time the Chevy got some advantage back. Let's remember that the Honda's didn't need to run such an aggressive front camber in race 1 and they themselves screwed up and lost points for that. They same can be said for how the Honda twins behaved in the Oulton Park race where they took themselves out.

The sad thing is, is that none of the top 3 really deserve the championship this year. Plato has used up the twat quota he saved up after the two previous season. Shedden has been bumping people off left right and centre this year, which is unusual for him. And Neal is just Neal, someone who believes he is a lot better than he really is. The person who really truly deserves the title is in fourth place.
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#304

Post by DoubleFault »

Honda ran that camber as it was their best hope of keeping pace, just like Plato at Thruxton where he crashed with a puncture.

As I saw posted on crash - if McDowell can qualify in 2nd place, the Chev has an advantage as McDonut is average.
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#305

Post by kals »

Yeah exactly. Honda ran the camber but didn't need to. A 24 point gap is a very handsome one in touring car racing and to squander that in such a way is unforgivable. Plato's puncture at Thruxton was not caused by camber but by overdriving and kerbing the car in an effort to keep up with the turbos.

The way I'm looking at is what comes around goes around. The Honda's have had their advantage and a far greater one than the Chevy has now. Now it's someone else turn. But the see-sawing of the equalisation has been a real turn off and whilst the racing has been entertaining it has really soured the entire year. Bring on 2012.
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#306

Post by DoubleFault »

Actually, the Honda's didn't have a clear advantage - you can see that as Mat Jackson was leading the championship 3 rounds ago.
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#307

Post by kals »

Well that's irrelevant in the wider scheme of things though. The advantage was shown in laptimes rather than results. After all, it was clear the Honda's as well as the rest of the turbos had a speed advantage off the corners and in a straight line. The Honda has had an advantage throughout the season, one because of the turbo NGTC engine and two because it is a better car than the rest of the field.

By the way Chris, I should add an important element. I don't want Plato to win. If he does it will leave a sour taste. I'm more of a Plato fan than I am a Neal or Shedden fan, but that doesn't mean he deserves the title this year.
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#308

Post by DoubleFault »

Oh right. Well then, let's stop Vettel from racing for the rest of the season - he has had an unfair advantage, so swings and roundabouts, this would make things better.


There are rules, you build a car to those rules. Best car and driver wins.

RML and Daewoo chose to go n/a and it blew up in their face (Literally for McDowell yesterday)
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#309

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

kals wrote:Yeah exactly. Honda ran the camber but didn't need to. A 24 point gap with two rounds to go is a very handsome one in touring car racing and to squander that in such a way is unforgivable.
I added a bit to the quote to make it totally my line of thought.....
kals wrote:The way I'm looking at is what comes around goes around. The Honda's have had their advantage and a far greater one than the Chevy has now. Now it's someone else turn.
Again, exactly my thoughts. Any system that alters the cars either by weight every 5 minutes, or by other restriction, in some form of attempt at parity, particularly covering cars with delete as applicable front drive, rear drive, turbo, normally aspirated, different aero strengths and weaknesses, NGTC / S2000, fuelled by LPG, Petrol, squashed apples, corn on the cob and chicken shit etc, is going to have its ups and downs, roundabouts and swings.

You cant please all the people all the time. :wink:

Just a thought, but Neal would no doubt be ahead of Plato in the title race had he not chosen to take him and his teamate into the boonies earlier in the season on the last corner / last lap of the race. :sarcasm: :wink:

Edit: Added further comment relating to this next quote not seen until posting my previous comments above
DoubleFault wrote:Oh right. Well then, let's stop Vettel from racing for the rest of the season - he has had an unfair advantage.
Unfair advantage? More talent has never been seen as an unfair advantage before. It isn't Seb's fault he has talent in abundance over some of his competitors. As I keep saying, it seems that even Hamilton can manage to beat the #2 RB when he keeps it on the island, minimises the errors and drives within his ability.... he isn't the only one who is unable generally to beat the same car with Vettel at the controls. Even Hamilton admits Seb is a better driver than he this year, as he has said of Button....
Lewis would be second in the title race comfortably now if he had driven to the level he has done in the past and not made so many errors. Let us not forget that the McLaren has often been the better race package, and it does have the benefit of more power and speed thanks to Mercedes over Renault power.

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#310

Post by DoubleFault »

What I'm saying is that the Red Bull, in the right hands, is the superior car. People shouldn't be punished for building a good car, but Honda have. The other turbo teams have..
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#311

Post by kals »

But you're missing a crucial fact Chris.

When the new rules were announced and Alan Gow explained that NGTC rules would be phased in throughout the 2011 and 2012 seasons before a full adoption in 2013 he promised all teams running S2000 or combined S2000 and NGTC cars an equalisation. This would ensure that teams would not need to go through expensive redesigns and builds immediately. RML and Plato, before the start of the season, believed they were offered a fair chance to compete with new generation of cars and engines. This was clearly not the case when the season started and Gow has tinkered around with the rules ever since. Yes it's not fair that the teams who've built a good car have been penalised, but in reality, given Gow's original plans it was always going to be the case.
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#312

Post by kart99 »

Pirtek get NGTC Civic's for 2012 with Jeff Smith and Andy Jordan staying on:

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2690
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#313

Post by PTRACER »

If they want equalisation, then make them all run the same car. Motorsport has never been about equalisation, just setting the rules and see who can come up with the best equipment.
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#314

Post by kals »

That's entirely missing the point though Paul. It's not about what they wanted but about what they were promised. The NGTC rules are designed to reduce costs and increase the number of entries. But an immediate adoption would have been expensive for many teams and the series would have suffered as a result. Alan Gow has long planned to do a phased adoption of the rules in 2011 and 2012 before a full NGTC grid in 2013. In order to ensure each variant of car had a similar performance Gow promised a parity. That's not a team or driver's fault now is it?
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#315

Post by kals »

Oh yes... :cool:

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#316

Post by kals »

It is the final round of the BTCC this weekend at Silverstone. It's tight between the top three and both Jackson and Nash have an outside shot. The big news heading into this weekend is that James Thompson is coming back and will be supporting Mat Jackson in a Motorbase Ford Focus.
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