NASCAR Ain't F1

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strad
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NASCAR Ain't F1

#1

Post by strad »

I watched the race...wasn't a very good race...but it was a race.

The wry, almost snide, smile on the face of Indianapolis Motor Speedway president Joie Chitwood said it all.
His point was as clear as the sky was bright on Sunday morning.

What was his point? No matter how bad the tire issue seemed to be as the Allstate 400 at the Brickyard approached, no matter what needed to be done to assure a safe, competitive race, it would be done because this is NASCAR, not Formula One.

He didn't just infer that point. He flatly told every media member in a press conference on Sunday some three hours before the green flag dropped.

"What's different is that you have NASCAR sitting up here telling you we're all in this together," he said.

Chitwood was just repeating part of an earlier statement from NASCAR vice president of competition Robin Pemberton, though Chitwood had more flare with a message to Formula One supreme ruler Bernie Ecclestone, the man behind the 2005 farce when 14 of the 20 cars pulled out of the U.S. Grand Prix due to tire issues.

"We met with the crew chiefs (on Sunday morning) and told them we're all in this together," Pemberton said. "We know we're here to put on a good race for the fans. That's the No. 1 priority -- the fans."

Whoa! There's a novel concept: Put the fans first no matter what it takes.

Formula One didn't grasp that "fan-first" concept three years ago when it decided not to do a thing to make sure all 20 cars competed in the race.

Loser: The 120,000 or so fans who showed up and spent good money to see the only F1 event in the country. That's why attendance dipped below 100,000 in 2006, and even lower in 2007.

F1 didn't return to the U.S. this year, and may never return.

NASCAR, on the other hand, did everything possible to accommodate the fans. Last year there were similar issues with competition yellow flags implemented at laps 15 and 40.

This year with the new COT (Car of Tomorrow) causing the tires to wear way too quick, the first competition yellow was moved back to Lap 10. There was another at Lap 30 and intermittently every 12-14 laps after that.

It was annoying for drivers. It was annoying for car owners. It was really annoying for fans. But the first two, along with Goodyear, were determined to see the race completed with as little incidents as possible.

"NASCAR's doing a great job today of making the best of a not-so-good situation," said Tony Stewart in a television in-car interview during one of the cautions.

That doesn't sound like the Stewart his fans know and love -- brash and willing to criticize NASCAR -- but he understood the circumstances. Unlike Formula One, everyone was trying to be on the same page.

"NASCAR's doing the right thing and Goodyear's doing the best they can," car owner Rick Hendrick said during the race.

Fellow owner Joe Gibbs added: "Everybody's doing the best they can to work together."

Again, a novel concept.

Not everybody was happy with the solution to the weekend-long tire problem. While sitting in his car after his right rear tire blew, resulting in the car spinning and hitting the wall, Matt Kenseth blamed NASCAR.

"This is one of the two biggest races of the year and to never have this tire here before and not come and do an open test to work on these things and work on the tires, it's pretty darn disappointing," he said. "I feel bad for the fans. We're running three-quarters speed because we're worried about the tires blowing out."

Despite the dissenting view of a minority, most knew NASCAR and Goodyear handled it as well as could be expected.

And that's much better than F1 did in the same situation at the same place.
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#2

Post by ellis »

NASCAR did the best they could with a situation which was caused by Goodyear. Goodyear better come up with answers quickly.
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#3

Post by erwin greven »

Nascar could do this because their rules permit to come with the competion caution.

The F1 can't do that because their rules don't permit it.

The Michelin teams tried to overcome the problem with the "chicane before T13" proposal. But even that is against the F1 rules of the FIA. Because the race track has be the same as the qualification track.
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#4

Post by DoubleFault »

F1 should have made it a non-championship race where no points would be scored.
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#5

Post by Speedworx »

F1 shoulda come up with an answer (like adding the chicane) and putting on a race.
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#6

Post by gd49 »

NASCAR were very lucky none of the blowouts caused injury to the drivers. I know it's unlikely, but if it had, they'd been in a real mess now.
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#7

Post by erwin greven »

A race of 160 laps divided in sprints of 10 to 12 laps is in my point of view a debacle.

I agree with Matt Kensett who pointed out that NASCAR should have allowed an unlimited test on the Indianapolis track. Now only three drivers tested there. And Earnhardt said that the tires went after 5 laps while testing. That was a few months ago. And still Goodyear had not solved this problem.

While the US GP Michelin had to cope with their problem overnight. That is not possible.

And like i said before, the FIA rules state that a track may not be altered between the qualification and the race. Also it was the decision from the teams not to race. Not the FIA or the FOM. Even Minardi didn't want to race but raced because Jordan did. Edidie Jordan knew that this was the only chance to get very easy points, because the Jordan was a better car than the Minardi's.
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#8

Post by ellis »

gd49 wrote:NASCAR were very lucky none of the blowouts caused injury to the drivers. I know it's unlikely, but if it had, they'd been in a real mess now.
When you have done as much work as NASCAR has done into safety for drivers, luck has very little to do with it.
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#9

Post by Hamster »

...the first competition yellow was moved back to Lap 10. There was another at Lap 30 and intermittently every 12-14 laps after that.
Sounds like business as usual.
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#10

Post by kals »

Speedworx wrote:F1 shoulda come up with an answer (like adding the chicane) and putting on a race.
Yes they should, in fact the Michelin teams and even Bernie were supportive of this idea. But the FIA were not. Max et al refused to commit to this resolution because they were concerned about the potential legal implications had there been an accident or some other incident.
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#11

Post by BleedingGums »

erwin greven wrote:A race of 160 laps divided in sprints of 10 to 12 laps is in my point of view a debacle.

I agree with Matt Kensett who pointed out that NASCAR should have allowed an unlimited test on the Indianapolis track. Now only three drivers tested there. And Earnhardt said that the tires went after 5 laps while testing. That was a few months ago. And still Goodyear had not solved this problem.

While the US GP Michelin had to cope with their problem overnight. That is not possible.

And like i said before, the FIA rules state that a track may not be altered between the qualification and the race. Also it was the decision from the teams not to race. Not the FIA or the FOM. Even Minardi didn't want to race but raced because Jordan did. Edidie Jordan knew that this was the only chance to get very easy points, because the Jordan was a better car than the Minardi's.

I'm in total agreeance with you Erwin... :thumbsup:

The truth is the Michelin teams could've run a different tyre, but it wouldn't have been competitive. So they preferred to let F1/the fans/Ferrari cop it. Really the total blame was Michelins, but everybody remotely interested in F1 had to suffer... :sorrow:

Geez, they're not in F1 anymore... :tongue:
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#12

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

BleedingGums wrote:
erwin greven wrote:A race of 160 laps divided in sprints of 10 to 12 laps is in my point of view a debacle.

I agree with Matt Kensett who pointed out that NASCAR should have allowed an unlimited test on the Indianapolis track. Now only three drivers tested there. And Earnhardt said that the tires went after 5 laps while testing. That was a few months ago. And still Goodyear had not solved this problem.

While the US GP Michelin had to cope with their problem overnight. That is not possible.

And like i said before, the FIA rules state that a track may not be altered between the qualification and the race. Also it was the decision from the teams not to race. Not the FIA or the FOM. Even Minardi didn't want to race but raced because Jordan did. Edidie Jordan knew that this was the only chance to get very easy points, because the Jordan was a better car than the Minardi's.

I'm in total agreeance with you Erwin... :thumbsup:

The truth is the Michelin teams could've run a different tyre, but it wouldn't have been competitive. So they preferred to let F1/the fans/Ferrari cop it. Really the total blame was Michelins, but everybody remotely interested in F1 had to suffer... :sorrow:

Geez, they're not in F1 anymore... :tongue:
Im also in total agreeance, and feel that for a race to be reduced to a number of 12 lap sprint segments where the drivers and teams knew exactly when they would be allowed to pit under the 'competition yellow' wank.

Re the F1 crapfest, it is something I seem to have done a pretty good job to erase from my memory under the guise of 'there was no USGP in 2005', but what I do recall is that Michelin offered to have tyres that would have been safe for the conditions airfreighted in overnight on Friday.... and yes that tyre may well have proved competitive. However that offer was protested by Ferrari and Bridgestone, sensing an easy win in an otherwise nothing year for them. Not surprisingly the Michelin offer was not backed by the FIA.

I also recall that Bridgestone had made their selection of tyre for the event on the basis of subsidiary companies with much data on the oval, that had been resurfaced (IIRC) with a particularly abrasive surface. Again the FIA was perhaps a little shortsighted in not allowing testing in advance on a track unique to F1 cars and their unique characteristics over any of the less sophisticated but purpose built machinery that normally uses the oval. I think that the FIA used it as a political tool rather than an issue of putting a race on at all costs. It made the issue of 'getting rid of a loyal supplier' easier. There was a hidden agenda not ivolved with safety, and was an easy way of passing the buck. To blame it all on Michelin is and was an injustice that suited Max and co.

My point here is that (and I am not sure on this fact) but is NASCAR a one make series from a tyre supply POV? Had F1 been in a single supplier environment I am sure they would have made a better job than breaking the race into 10 lap sprints, and that certainly it would not have required running for over 30% distance behind a safety car(or should I say Pace car?).

I also recall that the head of the FIA, rather than hop a plane to actually oversee matters on site chose to stay on his balcony in Monaco and deal with it over the phone..... no doubt he had an alternate appointment with some 'Madame Lash' that he felt he couldnt cancel at short notice....

As for the thread title, 'NASCAR aint F!', all I can say is Yep, I agree. Thankfully. They each have their place. The US overall aint interested in F1 and the rest of the world aint interested in NASCAR. They will both survive nicely on that basis....

At the end of the day the NASCAR answer, whilst still not being satisfactory from giving the punters a 'real' race was (due to fewer parties involved, and with no hidden agendas) a better resolution than that which F1 came up with on the day.

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