Noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage

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acerogers58
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#61

Post by acerogers58 »

Bottom post of the previous page:

White six wrote: 3 years ago Report from the FBI comes after that tweet?
Haven’t heard much more about it since, investigation likely being done quietly the way it should. Just says there is an investigation ongoing. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 243197001/

What is puzzling though is according to that article it was found on Saturday, which is a day before the Talladega incident surfaced
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#62

Post by White six »

Be interesting to have a debate about structural racism in motorsport. I guess it's had one of the highest levels given the finances, although you could probably also point at golf, cycling, swimming etc etc which would generally be cheaper to participate in
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#63

Post by XcraigX »

Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago So yeah, maybe not an apology, but maybe an acceptance that he and NASCAR got it wrong, the implication was the noose was put there as revenge for him getting the flag banned, even if it wasnt outright stated, it was implied, so maybe an acknowledgement of their own shortcomings would go a long way to patching things up
I agree with that (see the planets align every now and then :haha: :happy: :haha: )
Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago insulting 95% of your fanbase
I don't get this. Maybe there is a different version of events I missed, but I would almost say that 95% of the fanbase was just as shocked that it happened in the first place. (This is me estimating that about 5% of the fanbase are card carrying, confederate flag flyers. Even then, 5% may be a bit too large.)
Now, I'm sure there were plenty of talking heads in the news media throwing the entire NASCAR organization and fans under the bus (some version of "I told you those rednecks were racist!"). But I don't think it came from Bubba or NASCAR.
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#64

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It was on an ABC program, The Voice? the View? Something like that where he was doing an interview, anyway he said anybody questioning it was a simple minded racist. I don't have a direct link to the video but if you wish to search. Through YouTube Ben Shaperio included the segment on his show, the show was called "Fake Noose".
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#65

Post by jimclark »

Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago It was on an ABC program, The Voice? the View? Something like that where he was doing an interview, anyway he said anybody questioning it was a simple minded racist. I don't have a direct link to the video but if you wish to search. Through YouTube Ben Shaperio included the segment on his show, the show was called "Fake Noose".
I didn't see it, so is that actually Ben "Shaperio" or "Shapiro"? I never heard of Shaperio. I want to look it up myself.

Anywho, I've explained my past elsewhere, and if it's supposed to influence me in "apologizing for my white guilt", he can stick all the "tapes" of the show where the sun don't shine. I don't have any guilt and I question (note: NOT accuse) the occurrence's sincerity (not that it's the only such, that's for sure, which is why I do). Today was day four (Sun-Wed) and it's still getting major "airtime" in/on the media.

Congrats "guys" (NASCAR, et al), well played either way..... :whistling:

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#66

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@jimclark - we do you mean you don't have guilt? The vocal minority said you must have white guilt, we apparently all have white guilt. Apparently we're all at fault for not pointing out the systematic racism, and if we didn't see any then we're racist because we see it as normal. How dare we not speak up. #BlackLivesMatter

Note: Fed up with hearing this bullshit. I've never had the power to hire or fire, and I have never chosen or recommended somebody over another because of their skin, religion or any other personal identification. I hate being tarred with this racist brush. (Bet that's a racist saying now as well)
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#67

Post by Ian-S »

What's most worrying is that not instantly accepting whatever story is story of the week and maybe going, "OK, I'm gonna need some actual evidence of what you're claiming and not just believe it because you said it was true" also makes you racist in a lot of people's eyes (entire thread could be an exhibit), it's almost as if these people don't actually know the meaning of racism.

We've had this in the UK with women, there are now numerous cases where a woman made a claim about a man, and anybody who questioned her story was instantly labelled as a sexist, maybe even racist, there was a desire for instant mob justice, the accused was cancelled, hounded out of society and generally had their life ruined (along with anybody who didn't instantly consume the narrative), and then guess what, after proper scrutiny, investigation and this little thing called due process (aka a trial) the accused was found not guilty, and in one case the "victim" was prosecuted for perjury as CCTV evidence showed she was the one who instigated the sex when the guy raped her. But is there any admittance that the mob justice was wrong? Not in the slightest, Alex Samon, don't particularly like him, but just one example of a victim of this who would be rotting in jail now (or worse) if this mob justice had been allowed to decide his fate.

This attitude or desire to dispel with due process and to cancel anybody who dares question anything is I dare say, more damaging than anything else, there's now an entire generation of people who have no desire to listen to reason, or follow due process and only want instant mob justice, if they don't get it their answer is to go on a rioting rampage and destroy anything they perceive as offensive, anybody questioning the story must be cancelled and hounded to death, it's very worrying.

You know, to anybody here who got triggered by us questioning this, admitting that ostricating us for not instantly buying the "story" or implying we were racist for the same was perhaps wrong, is not a sign of weakness, nor does it instantly make you a far right racist card carrying White supremist, what is shows is you have integtity, and a basic level of self awareness most people seem not to have nowdays, but continuing to bang on about racism being everywhere and using this as justification to why every white person should apologise for their ancestors actions just shows how out of touch you are, I do hope none of you have to experience this mob rule social justice yourself that you so love to fall back on every time someone questions a narrative being shoved down their throat, because by all accounts, it's not very nice. Wonna have a taste of it? Go to a BLM rally about equality and hold up an All Lives Matter banner, when you get out of hospital, let us know how it was.
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#68

Post by MonteCristo »

Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago there's now an entire generation of people who have no desire to listen to reason, or follow due process and only want instant mob justice, if they don't get it their answer is to go on a rioting rampage and destroy anything they perceive as offensive, anybody questioning the story must be cancelled and hounded to death, it's very worrying.
Has it ever been different?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_riots

I thought, "Oh, there haven't been that many..." But then click on the sub links...
"They were the worst ethnically-motivated riots in the United Kingdom since 1985"
"It was the first rioting in Leeds since the Hyde Park riots of 1995."

But if you really want to see a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ted_States
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#69

Post by Ian-S »

MonteCristo wrote: 3 years ago
Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago there's now an entire generation of people who have no desire to listen to reason, or follow due process and only want instant mob justice, if they don't get it their answer is to go on a rioting rampage and destroy anything they perceive as offensive, anybody questioning the story must be cancelled and hounded to death, it's very worrying.
Has it ever been different?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_riots

I thought, "Oh, there haven't been that many..." But then click on the sub links...
"They were the worst ethnically-motivated riots in the United Kingdom since 1985"
"It was the first rioting in Leeds since the Hyde Park riots of 1995."

But if you really want to see a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ted_States
Maybe it's just the Internet making stuff more accessible and instant, but it does seem to be more prevelant nowadays. Maybe it's just me but what used to be a once a decade occurance, is now an annual event lol.
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#70

Post by MonteCristo »

Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago
MonteCristo wrote: 3 years ago
Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago there's now an entire generation of people who have no desire to listen to reason, or follow due process and only want instant mob justice, if they don't get it their answer is to go on a rioting rampage and destroy anything they perceive as offensive, anybody questioning the story must be cancelled and hounded to death, it's very worrying.
Has it ever been different?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_riots

I thought, "Oh, there haven't been that many..." But then click on the sub links...
"They were the worst ethnically-motivated riots in the United Kingdom since 1985"
"It was the first rioting in Leeds since the Hyde Park riots of 1995."

But if you really want to see a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ted_States
Maybe it's just the Internet making stuff more accessible and instant
No doubt about it. And there are simply more people than ever before.
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#71

Post by Ian-S »

Indeed.
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#72

Post by Cheeveer »

Straightening out the facts: https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/stor ... i-findings
Was there a noose found in Bubba Wallace's garage at Talladega?

Yes. NASCAR officials and FBI investigators have not disputed that. Rope pulldowns are installed on the roller doors in every bay of the Talladega Superspeedway garage. According to NASCAR, every one of those pulldowns was checked as part of the FBI investigation, and the only one of those fashioned into a noose was the rope in garage No. 4, which was assigned to the Richard Petty Motorsports No. 43 Chevy this past weekend.

FBI special agent Johnnie Sharp Jr. led a team of 15 FBI investigators as they inspected the garage and interviewed multiple people around Talladega Superspeedway, including Wallace. In his official statement, written with U.S. Attorney Jay E. Town, Sharp used the word "noose" four times and never disputed that it was a noose -- saying only that the timing of its hanging in garage No. 4, at least as early as October 2019, meant it was not directed at Wallace and thus was not a federal crime.

When asked about how frequently he has seen door pulls shaped in such a fashion, Bubba Wallace said on ESPN's First Take on Wednesday: "I've been racing since I was 9 years old; I'm 26 now, I'll be 27 this year, and I've never seen a garage pull like that. It makes me want to drive over to my mom's house where we used to race out of our garage and show a garage pull."

Was Wallace's team purposely assigned to the garage No. 4 stall so he would be exposed to the noose?

No. Garage workspaces are assigned to teams per their rank in the NASCAR Cup Series standings. Furthermore, because of COVID-19 pandemic-related social distancing policies, team garage assignments have been even more spread out than normal, making the idea of slotting a certain team in a certain garage seem even less plausible. The FBI stated that "nobody could have known Mr. Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week," and that, as a result, no federal crime had been committed.

Did Wallace ever see the noose?

Not until NASCAR brought it to his attention Sunday night. Again, because of pandemic team roster restrictions and the nature of a one-day race schedule, a very limited number of people were allowed into the garage area at all. One member of the No. 43 team found the noose, reported it to NASCAR security, and then took it to NASCAR president Steve Phelps and his executive team. This was widely reported Sunday night and Monday, despite what "Bubba Was In On It" conspiracy theorists might tell you.

With the FBI closing its investigation, why is NASCAR continuing its own inquiry?

The purpose is to identify the person who tied the rope into a noose and why they did it -- whether it be a NASCAR crew member, track worker or someone else with access to the garage before or during the October 2019 race weekend. As one NASCAR official told ESPN.com on Tuesday night: "There a lot of ways to tie a rope. This was unquestionably a noose. So, why?" Also, now that it has been proved that the noose was there during a race weekend in October, why was it not noticed until now, eight months later?

"I don't know if it was like, 'Hey, I'm gonna tie this as a noose, and see if anybody catches it,'" Wallace said on First Take. "I don't know if they did it with hate in their heart or [if it was] a joke, but it ended up being a misunderstanding, some will say. Unfortunately, I hate that I'm kinda on the bad end of the deal because of it, just because I was simply given information related to me, and we went on with it."

Why won't NASCAR just show the photo of the noose?

Officials say they won't do that because their internal investigation is ongoing. All evidence submitted as part of the FBI investigation is back in NASCAR's hands, including the photo and video evidence used to reveal that the noose was visible in the same garage, hanging from the door pulldown, during the October 2019 race weekend. While the official images and the noose itself remain withheld from the public eye so far, other images of the noose have surfaced from outside sources.

Why didn't NASCAR simply wait for both investigations to be finished before going public?

It certainly could have. As of Sunday evening, only the one crew member and NASCAR personnel had seen the noose. Wallace didn't even know about it until Phelps came to his motor home Sunday evening to tell him what was happening, a conversation during which Wallace says the NASCAR president was in tears. This was at the end of an emotionally charged day that had seen just-banned Confederate flags flown over the speedway behind an airplane and around the racetrack grounds by a convoy of pickup trucks.

When the noose was brought to NASCAR's attention, the decision was made to release a very bold public statement. ("We are angry and outraged, and cannot state strongly enough how seriously we take this heinous act.") NASCAR issued its statement in no small part to speak to those who had protested the flag ban throughout the day. Although NASCAR had anticipated pushback to its flag ban, the noose discovery was a last straw on a very frustrating day.

Are NASCAR officials embarrassed by the FBI's report?

Yes and no, with a much higher percentage toward no. They aren't happy about the optics of it all, and they certainly haven't enjoyed those conspiracy theorists believing they scored a win. But they also don't regret acting as swiftly and as publicly as they did. NASCAR president Phelps said Tuesday: "I do want to make sure everyone understands that, if given the evidence that we had delivered to us late [Sunday] afternoon, we would do the same thing -- we would have done the same investigation. It was important for us to do. There is no place in our sport for this type of racism or hatred. It's not part of who we are as a sport."

What is the mood among the drivers, who so dramatically supported Wallace during the Talladega prerace ceremonies?

The incredible scene on pit road Monday at Talladega was orchestrated entirely by the drivers without NASCAR's input, beginning with an angry group-text chain as they read NASCAR's statement Sunday night. On Tuesday evening, multiple drivers we texted with said that although they were frustrated their efforts were now tagged with an asterisk, they, too, wouldn't have changed what they did. Wallace addressed their support during an interview with CNN after Tuesday's announcement by the FBI: "We've seen everybody come together on Monday there; that was one of the coolest things that I have ever been able to be a part of. Not saying that I wanted that, but drivers wanted to do that; they wanted to show support of me. And now, it kind of looks bad, but it doesn't. Because, within their hearts, they know that it is something that they want to stand up for."

What has Wallace said in response to the FBI report?

Wallace first spoke to CNN on Tuesday night while social media platforms were fueled with multiple Wallace-related trending topics, none of them nice. During the interview, he reiterated that what was found in garage 4 at Talladega wasn't merely a garage door pull: "From the evidence that we have and I have, it's a straight-up noose. ... It was a noose that was, whether tied in 2019 or whenever, it was a noose. It wasn't directed at me, but somebody tied it." When asked about the social media chatter, he said, "I'm pissed. I'm mad because people are trying to test my character. They are trying to test my integrity. They are not going to steal that away from me, but they're trying to test that."

Wallace also reiterated his position on using his platform to continue to push for change in the sport, and beyond.

"If you had [seen] the Ahmaud Arbery video, and if it shook you the way it shook me, knowing that, I wanted to make change, I wanted to go down there and retaliate for that family and for that man," Wallace said on First Take. "But I knew hate doesn't win, love wins. It's about spreading the right message. And we go through the Breonna Taylor incident, and then we go through the George Floyd incident -- to get where change, I believe, is really happening.

"Whenever I get time away from interviews and get time to think, I am [going to be] on phone calls about 'What are the next steps for us in showing that we care and we're gonna make changes, instead of just saying it?' We have to have actions to back it up."
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#73

Post by John »

NASCAR has released images of the noose/handle whatever you wanna call it in Bubbas' garage.

Image

I get why people jumped the gun.
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#74

Post by erwin greven »

Not cool. Period.
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#75

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"Following Sunday’s discovery, NASCAR officials asked each track to sweep through their respective garages. Across the 1,684 garage stalls at 29 tracks, NASCAR found only 11 total that had a pull-down rope tied in a knot and only one noose — the one discovered Sunday in the No. 43 garage stall."

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2020/ ... talladega/

That's also a fantastic coincidence.
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#76

Post by jimclark »

DoubleFart wrote: 3 years ago @jimclark - we do you mean you don't have guilt? The vocal minority said you must have white guilt, we apparently all have white guilt.
You're right. I'm so sorry. I seem to have forgotten that racism is in my genetic make-up.

As I observe all the rioting, looting, destroying/burning buildings, throwing things at police, and knocking down monuments, I assume this is a "genetic" trait also......? :dunno:

Observation.....? Ha! Silly me! That's none of the above. That's "protesting". What am I thinking. I'm just being racist again......damn those genetics. :oops:

Oh lord, forgive me please. :roll:

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