[NASCAR] 2014 Season Discussion

All NASCAR Cup and general stock car discussion, including the Xfinity, ARCA and any feeder series.
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kals
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#271

Post by kals »

Bottom post of the previous page:

One fight in a season - rare and somewhat enjoyable / acceptable

More than one fight in a season - petulant children and unnacceptable
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#272

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

kals wrote:One fight in a season - rare and somewhat enjoyable / acceptable

More than one fight in a season - petulant children and unnacceptable
:agreepost:

When it becomes the expected, or what people 'want', it all becomes a bit too WWF for me.

Whereas if it is once in a decade, ie Piquet and Salazar, or Schumacher and Coulthard when Michael stormed into the McLaren pits screaming at DC "You tried to fucking kill me....). The only other similar incidents in F1 were when Ayrton Senna threw a punch at Eddie Irvine.

Back in the 70's, maybe when James Hunt decked a Marshall..... Or when Luigi Fagioli threw a wheel hammer at, IIRC, Rudolf Carracciola back in the thirties.

Image

Incidents like that are memorable and funny, even by those involved, for many years. They will remain so because they were unexpected and rare.

Even Nelson and Elisio now think of it as a laugh.....

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#273

Post by SBan83 »

It's just what this 'Chase' was designed to bring out of the competitors. Every point and position is precious as it could make the difference between you advancing to the next round of the championship or getting eliminated.

I'm not going to get on my high horse and call these guys unprofessional or anything. I'd rather have this any day over drivers acting like polite little corporate spokespersons and verbal sparring on Twitter like Button and Hamilton.
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#274

Post by kals »

SB83 wrote:I'm not going to get on my high horse and call these guys unprofessional or anything. I'd rather have this any day over drivers acting like polite little corporate spokespersons and verbal sparring on Twitter like Button and Hamilton.
Emotions are running high but these guys are highly paid public figures and are supposed to be role models, they are supposed to be professionals and act accordingly. Regardless of the competition, these fights are becoming somewhat of the norm. That's unacceptable. We all work, we all dislike certain things about our work environment and the conduct of people around us. But if we were to physically assault our peers then there would be serious repercussions. End of story. I'm fine with an altercation of some sort but only if it is a one-off. I'd prefer neither a Twitter "spat" or a fight, but if I were to choose between then I'll go with the Twitter thing.

Yes NASCAR is a show and these altercations are part of appeal, but all it means is that small children around the country are now questioning "why are they fighting?" and probably think that behaviour is perfectly normal.
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#275

Post by SBan83 »

First off, comparing it to your work environment makes absolutely no sense. Your workplace is not putting on a show. Racing is after all a form of entertainment, an escape. We don't want it to be like our humdrum daily lives, with everyone acting all prim and prissy and saying sorry or biting their lip and moving on. I want my race car drivers to be fiery individuals that don't take any nonsense if they feel they've been done wrong. Secondly, parents should tell their kids not to look at them as role models. If a small child asks why are they fighting, what's so hard about that? They had a difference of opinion and couldn't resolve it peacefully, that's why they are fighting. Not like kids don't fight.

Anyway, this is how it used to be in NASCAR anyway until they tried to be all 'professional' and 'mature' in the last decade and tried to stamp it all out. Huge fines and penalties for even the smallest fights or paybacks. Coincidentally the popularity took a drop during that period too. Now they have realized that was wrong and are allowing it again. Stock car fans expect this product from stock car racing. Always have, always will.
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#276

Post by Ian-S »

I tend to agree with kals, it's hard to explain to modern kids just exactly why it's wrong to punch someone when they do something you don't like when stuff like this is broadcast on the evening news, because you get the inevitable "but it was OK for Jeffy" answer.

IMHO the popularity didn't drop because of the lack of fights, but rather the on track product was, and for the main part, still is crap.
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#277

Post by SBan83 »

The popularity dropped due to a plethora of reasons but the corporatization/robotization of drivers was a big part of it as I always heard long time fans complain about it.
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#278

Post by kals »

Comparing to the work environment is perfectly legitimate. NASCAR is a multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people, drivers and teams are part of that. NASCAR relies on the investment from corporations and private individuals to thrive, i.e. it's customers. I work for a multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people, which relies on investment from corporations and private individuals to thrive... i.e. our customers. The difference is that my company isn't broadcast to homes at primetime every weekend. The difference is NASCAR is a sport not a reality show. The difference is that in our workplace we are held accountable to a strict code of conduct.

Like I said, I don't mind the odd scuffle as it is part of the sport's heritage, it shows that emotions exist and these sport men and women are hugely competitive and there is a human aspect after all. But when it happens all too regularly then there's a problem. If people want to see fights then there is MMA, boxing, etc... NASCAR increasing in popularity because of fights is the same as gaining in popularity because of crashes.
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#279

Post by SBan83 »

Surely NASCAR has a better understanding of what the corporations want than you or me. What you fail to realize is that a corporation cannot just demand changes to suit its needs. The sport is bigger than it. The corporations got behind it knowing what the history and perception of the sport has been for over 50 years and this sort of thing is part of it. And I don't know why you keep saying this is a regular occurance. It only happened twice this year out of over 35 weekends, that too near the end when it was expected to happen given the way this year's Chase has been structured..
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#280

Post by kals »

SB83 wrote:Surely NASCAR has a better understanding of what the corporations want than you or me.
Agreed, but no-one is denying that.
SB83 wrote:FWhat you fail to realize is that a corporation cannot just demand changes to suit its needs.
You couldn't be more wrong here Sandeep. My employer of 10 years is a global corporation which employs over 20,000 people and since January 2013 the entiire company has being going through a process of change. I won't bore you with the details but suffice to say I am at the coal face of understanding what a corporation needs to do to demand changes.
SB83 wrote:The corporations got behind it knowing what the history and perception of the sport has been for over 50 years and this sort of thing is part of it. And I don't know why you keep saying this is a regular occurance. It only happened twice this year out of over 35 weekends, that too near the end when it was expected to happen given the way this year's Chase has been structured..
It's 3 times isn't it in 2014? Mears and Ambrose, Kenseth and Brad, now Gordon and Brad. Make that 4 times in you go back around a year to the Logano and Stewart clash. Let's keep the competitiveness and emotion, have some shouting matches if needed, but mass brawls and physical violence doesn't need to happen. That's all. I'm only commenting because of the recent frequency. The same as I did those years ago when Edwards kept running Brad off into walls and when Kyle Busch kept melting down on track.
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#281

Post by SBan83 »

kals wrote:
SB83 wrote:FWhat you fail to realize is that a corporation cannot just demand changes to suit its needs.
You couldn't be more wrong here Sandeep. My employer of 10 years is a global corporation which employs over 20,000 people and since January 2013 the entiire company has being going through a process of change. I won't bore you with the details but suffice to say I am at the coal face of understanding what a corporation needs to do to demand changes.
Kieran, I meant a corporation that is a SPONSOR in NASCAR cannot demand that NASCAR (not the corporation LOL) be changed in order to suit the corporation's image. Point being they cannot say oh we don't like to see fighting so ban plz or we quit. They got into the sport knowing full well about it. Like muslims in Britain demanding British laws change to suit them.
kals wrote:
SB83 wrote:The corporations got behind it knowing what the history and perception of the sport has been for over 50 years and this sort of thing is part of it. And I don't know why you keep saying this is a regular occurance. It only happened twice this year out of over 35 weekends, that too near the end when it was expected to happen given the way this year's Chase has been structured..
It's 3 times isn't it in 2014? Mears and Ambrose, Kenseth and Brad, now Gordon and Brad. Make that 4 times in you go back around a year to the Logano and Stewart clash. Let's keep the competitiveness and emotion, have some shouting matches if needed, but mass brawls and physical violence doesn't need to happen. That's all. I'm only commenting because of the recent frequency. The same as I did those years ago when Edwards kept running Brad off into walls and when Kyle Busch kept melting down on track.
I forgot about Mears and Ambrose but Logano and Stewart was last year and it was nothing but a little shoulder grab by Stewart on Logano. Anyway, that still by no means makes it 'the norm' in a 30+ race season so far.
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#282

Post by kals »

I get you Sandeep, although the only thing I can think of that contradicts your point about sponsors is what happened with MWR with the Chase debacle last season. That sponsor had been with Waltrip personally for a couple of decades and terminated their contract as soon as NASCAR announced MWR had cheated to get Truex into the Chase. As for the fighting, three times in a season is a lot when it typically doesn't happen more than once a season. But after last weekend, I'll find it surprising if we have this conversation after the next races.
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#283

Post by SBan83 »

That was just the excuse NAPA needed to get out of sponsoring deadbeat driver Martin Truex Jr and hop on the Chase Elliott gravy train Kieran. ;) As you can see they wasted no time in doing that when we all thought they were actually leaving the sport.

I also wonder if after all this hype leading into Phoenix, we'll just see a tepid procession and not much else. We shall have to wait n see.
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#284

Post by Antonov »

apparently a police investigation is underway regarding K. Bush. the nature of the investigation is unclear at this time. i expect something like driving in drunken state.
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#285

Post by erwin greven »

There are accusations about domestic violence.
Brian Redman: "Mr. Fangio, how do you come so fast?" "More throttle, less brakes...."
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#286

Post by Ian-S »

His girlfriend says he bet her up, on the flip side he says she can't accept the end of their relationship and is stirring up shit, I've been around long enough to know what will happen.

But hey let's look at this objectively, the incident aparantly happened at Dover, months ago, but even as recently as this week she was tweeting about how she was at tracks to support Kurt, but you never saw them together in the pre-racd ceromies like you used to, and Kurt has been keeping a somewhat of a low profile...

I'll leave it up to you how you interpret that...

In other news someone forgot to top up the electric meter at Phoenix last night and the lights went off during the truck race, causing them to red flag and end it early.
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