Indycar 2019 - News and Discussion

Including the Indy 500 and all junior series leading up to IndyCar
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kals
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#1006

Post by kals »

Bottom post of the previous page:

We will disagree on Mid-Ohio between RHR and Newgarden, he shouldn't have to sit back and he does deserve racing room, like any driver. RHR on the other hand has shown multiple times than in wheel to wheel situations he has the spacial awareness of Sebastian Vettel.

In respect of Rosenqvist there are a couple of matters. Firstly I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, whereas you are not. That's fine. You're the only person with a highly critical viewpoint of him, again that's fine. What isn't fine is that no-one is / was suggesting his season was perfect, only objecting (previously and now) to your points against him. And while he may be experienced, that's fairly irrelevant when it comes to US racing and Indycars.

As for Herta, I'm not sure how his driving at Road America suddenly means he's reckless and needs to change his style. Also, how does that fit the context of him being unlucky with some mechanical failures through 2019?
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#1007

Post by MonteCristo »

Rosenqvist in some respects - given the car - underperformed. But he's still fairly young, and certainly new to the series. Really can't say bad things about him.

Ferrucci had a very good season. If he stays in the series, he's the much-needed person to hate.

Bourdais hasn't been the same since his Indy crash.

Herta could well be boom or bust in individual races. And that's great, frankly. He's fast enough that if he was that fast - and consistent - he'd be near unstoppable. And short of him over-revving the car or something stupid, he was very unlucky this season as well (mind you, he was lucky at COTA - but on sheer pace deserved a couple of wins).

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#1008

Post by Vassago »

kals wrote: 4 years ago We will disagree on Mid-Ohio between RHR and Newgarden, he shouldn't have to sit back and he does deserve racing room, like any driver. RHR on the other hand has shown multiple times than in wheel to wheel situations he has the spacial awareness of Sebastian Vettel.

In respect of Rosenqvist there are a couple of matters. Firstly I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, whereas you are not. That's fine. You're the only person with a highly critical viewpoint of him, again that's fine. What isn't fine is that no-one is / was suggesting his season was perfect, only objecting (previously and now) to your points against him. And while he may be experienced, that's fairly irrelevant when it comes to US racing and Indycars.

As for Herta, I'm not sure how his driving at Road America suddenly means he's reckless and needs to change his style. Also, how does that fit the context of him being unlucky with some mechanical failures through 2019?
I'm a Newgarden fan since the very beginning but that doesn't mean I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt like you are with Rosenqvist. Mid-Ohio was a horrible decision from him, last lap and you're running ahead of Rossi but go for a high-risk, low-reward pass on RHR? What for? He made equally stupid decision at Detroit before so I thought he won't do it at Mid-Ohio, different stage of the season when you just have to manage your points lead. Without these two errors the championship would be over before Laguna Seca tbh. The Ferrucci deal at Gateway was 50/50 so I'm willing to give him a pass but Detroit R2 & Mid-Ohio was just dumb and unneccessary.

It's not about Road America alone. I watched Herta back in the EuroBoss and he was driving like a maniac back then already. He wanted to win every single time and made several mistakes along the way. I get it, a young driver wants to impress the community but given Herta's family ties, he doesn't really have to. He has enough talent to be Andretti's #2 driver for years and who knows, maybe he will cause enough controversy going after Rossi's team leader status. Do you remember Rossi was sort of hit & miss driver in GP2 before? He has mellowed down in IndyCar as he realized consistency matters the most. Dixon & Franchitti knew that and that's a recipe for winning a championship. Sure, Herta has plenty of speed and can win a lot but that's not gonna make him a title contender. This is closer to the likes of Paul Tracy or Helio Castroneves from his CART days. Boom or bust. Herta can win 4-5 races next year but this won't help him if he suffers 5-6 DNFs.

These kind of drivers are labelled as future champions but guess what, they never win that championship (Castroneves) or need a historic run of circumstances go their way (Paul Tracy with 4-straight wins to open the 2003 season where Bourdais was still learning his spurs. Once Bourdais settled in, it was a no-contest).
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#1009

Post by kals »

I cannot comment on what you saw in Herta during his 2016 Euroformula Open season, only what I saw this season. I really didn't see his over exuberance at Road America as too bad. Sometimes drivers have a bad day. I'm not trying to change your mind but rather demonstrate we see things differently. Rossi I was never a fan of when he was in Europe. Don't know why, I just never warmed to him. That's changed since he moved into Indycar.

As for Newgarden v RHR, I get your point but I disagree. That doesn't mean I'm saying you're wrong. Far from it. We have different perspectives. Newgarden didn't need to go for the position but he had a fantastic run out of turn 1 and a very legitimate shot of an overtake, so why not? Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's racing. Detroit was a shame and yes, silly. But I for one am glad these top drivers makes mistakes.

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#1010

Post by Cheeveer »

Herta has definitely been this season's revelation. He's fast, he's modest, he's humble and he's intelligent enough to learn from his mistake the moment after the mistake had been done. Portland showed vast progress form Road America, and Laguna Seca showed vast progress from Portland.

Rosenqvist was where I expected really. He showed that he's the best driver that Ganassi can have alongside Dixon. For the first time in at least 5 years that team is now a two car team in reality.

Ericsson however was probably the driver in the entire field that made the most mistakes. He has great racecraft and probably gained the most position out of anybody during pit cycles, but he so rarely capitalised on that at race end. Then his qualifying performances were so weak he got caught up in first lap crashes way too often. He had a good clean run in maybe 3 or 4 races, 3 of which resulted in top 7 results. Can he progress? He barely showed any progress from 5 years in F1.

I think 2020 will be do or die for Rossi. Yes, Andretti Autosport has underachieved lately, but no, it should not be about "the big three" in Indycar; Ganassi (Dixon) and Penske is in a different league in reality.

Schmidt-Peterson is a good team, but they suffered the entire year from the loss of Wickens. I don't think the McLaren alliance will help them in 2020, maybe in 2021. Whoever will drive for them will have a hard time to do better than what Hinch has done these last few years.

Speaking of Hinch, I think his best case scenario would be getting a third RLL car. Rahal underperformed this year, but now Sato seems more comfortable than ever (even though he's still Sato'ing folks left and right). That team seems harmonious and professional, and with some extra resources could close in on the top.

RHR, Bourdais and Kanaan should all think about a farewell tour for 2020. That Power won 2 of the last 4 gave him another lifeline.

I don't want to talk about Fartucci.

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#1011

Post by John »

I think both Rosenqvist and Herta did one heck'uva job this year, finishing 6th and 7th respectively in the final standings. And looking at who was in front of them, well, that was JoNew, Rossi, Dixon, Pags and Power. Not exactly a bunch of leftovers. And ahead of drivers such as Sato, RHR, Hinch and a bunch of other established names. Felix performed a damn sight better than Ed Jones ever did in the #10 car.

Both of them will be around for a long time unless Herta heads off to F2, and the series is all the better for it. No point in splitting hairs about who outperformed who and what not, at the end of the day I think they both passed their rookie seasons with flying colors. We have to remember that Colton is like, 12 years old, he'll mature eventually I'm sure.
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#1012

Post by John »

Image

And with that image @kals - lock this thread and start the 2020 thread now that it peaked.
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#1013

Post by kals »



@John - now you've posted your weiner, are you going to open the 2020 thread?
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