1913 Louis P. Orphan & Gene Scott's Unoff. Practice Wreck at Herndon, Fresno

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Jesper Hvid
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1913 Louis P. Orphan & Gene Scott's Unoff. Practice Wreck at Herndon, Fresno

#1

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Image

Unknown driver of wrecked car in pic according to the son of his niece died an unknown period of time after suffering this accident, maybe from the lingering aftereffects of injuries sustained. In any case, that is was is suggested in the conversation, here:

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanPicker ... 398383192/

1:46: "This is actually the wreckage of the car my mum's uncle was driving", etc. Note that the following pic shown in a close-up is not the same as the one they are talking about, in the video. The family is Fresno-based for generations, so that is a clue in itself.

Mmorg hits for "Fresno" (43): http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/searc ... rch=Submit

Previously discussed here:

http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/forums/vi ... =7&t=17200
Last edited by Jesper Hvid 2 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
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#2

Post by PTRACER »

Slightly enhanced. I think we're still looking at the Teens rather than the 1920s.

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Looking in newspapers, E.B. Waterman seems to have taken part in his final races in 1913
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#3

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Could certainly be.

I've eliminated 13 of 43 mmorg entries, just quickly browsing. I'll be able to boil it down a lot more.
Bill Vukovich
Henri Cissac
Billy Vukovich III
Jules Schaub
Kenny Stoddard
Red Stainton
Juan Carlos Gálvez Gallardo
María Antonia Sánchez Trenado
Ben Ruedger
Larry Deaton
Jim Turner
Bob Pearson
J. W. Mitchell
Whatever remains, should be taken into account. Maybe there's nothing of use, but then at least "Fresno" has been checked.
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#4

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Just highlighting a possibly important detail. Click to enlarge:

Image

The "2" could be light shining off of bent metal, and I see a very vague possible "67" (circled in red). May be nothing at all. But I've looked at the figure in the pic, and he would be a match for your well-dressed man of circa 1920, or earlier, and the car is of course too large to be a 1930s midget, so I've revised the topic title to 1910s-20s.
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#5

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Joe James
Jack Habermehl
Dick Carmichael
Lloyd Nygren
Don Horvath
George Farmer
Van Edwards
Howard Shelly
Jimmy Holt
Ray Darney
Al Duris
Chet Bigham
Terry Wilkinson
These are also out of the question, so down to 17, and I don't expect to find anything useful among the rest.
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#6

Post by Jesper Hvid »

Just something I stumbled upon. Put here for the purpose of disambiguation, only.

A driver named Harris Hanshue was falsely reported killed in an accident at Fresno, Ca., in 1913: https://www.newspapers.com/image/?clipp ... vMl4JLQTY8

He died in 1937, and does not appear to have raced after that: https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/harris-hanshue/

His absence from mmorg seems to suggest that his final accident and much later death were unrelated.

He had another big accident in L.A. in 1910: http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/forums/vi ... ue#p334254
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#7

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Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago He died in 1937, and does not appear to have raced after that
A reasonable assumption.
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#8

Post by PTRACER »

The problem is..."These are my mum's uncles. They owned a Buick dealership in town [Fresno]. He survived the crash."

I think looking at fatal crashes of drivers who aren't named Waterman is basically going up a dead end street.
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#9

Post by Jesper Hvid »

EB wrote: 2 years ago
Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago He died in 1937, and does not appear to have raced after that
A reasonable assumption.
:haha:
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#10

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PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago The problem is..."These are my mum's uncles. They owned a Buick dealership in town [Fresno]. He survived the crash."

I think looking at fatal crashes of drivers who aren't named Waterman is basically going up a dead end street.
True. He initially survived (so sayeth the man). However, the mother of the man who uttered that married a man, presumably, and assumed that person's name, and then even knowing the surnames of these people needn't lead anywhere, either. Looking at Fresno stuff may lead to relevant track, or other things that could be useful. If Waterman's the guy, then he wouldn't be in mmorg, if you've discovered a new case of the Opperman or Jacobi type. Death date much later than accident date, but possibly eligible. I thought that was the most interesting bit, and I still cannot make it add up, agewise. Time frame is wrong. The photographs themselves can't be wrong, of course. Some of these were sold at drug stores and news stands, as postcards. Something is bound to turn up at some point. Right now, we're down dead end street, I'll give you that. There's a crack up in the ceiling and the kitchen sink is leaking.
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#11

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This was solved in an extraordinary manner by PTRACER, see: http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/forums/vi ... 0&start=30

Topic title revised.
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#12

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This accident and its consequences cannot be ignored by mmorg, and I've notified Nanni of this topic.
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#13

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Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago
Joe James
Jack Habermehl
Dick Carmichael
Lloyd Nygren
Don Horvath
George Farmer
Van Edwards
Howard Shelly
Jimmy Holt
Ray Darney
Al Duris
Chet Bigham
Terry Wilkinson
These are also out of the question, so down to 17, and I don't expect to find anything useful among the rest.
No point in researching this any further, so I won't.
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#14

Post by Jesper Hvid »

JThur01 wrote: 2 years agoI'd caution against assuming too much based on a 1924 newspaper claim that "internal injuries received in an automobile accident in 1913 were the real cause of the death, doctors believe." (that last part rightly emphasized).
This to me sounds a lot like "case dismissed". I can't really say I disagree, but is there even a small possibility of a Related Cases-entry? I'll tell you why, if you care to know.
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#15

Post by JThur01 »

Jesper Hvid wrote: 2 years ago
JThur01 wrote: 2 years agoI'd caution against assuming too much based on a 1924 newspaper claim that "internal injuries received in an automobile accident in 1913 were the real cause of the death, doctors believe." (that last part rightly emphasized).
This to me sounds a lot like "case dismissed". I can't really say I disagree, but is there even a small possibility of a Related Cases-entry? I'll tell you why, if you care to know.
"Case dismissed" from MM. He was moved to LWF.
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