Unknown 1960s Jarama F3 crash
- Smuto
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 3 years ago
- Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
- Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 79
- Favourite Driver: Ronnie Peterson
- Favourite Circuit: Osterreichring
- Location: Spain
Unknown 1960s Jarama F3 crash
I found this crash yesterday, and I've been trying to identify. I think it might be Ulf Svensson crash in a F3 race previous to the 1967 Spanish GP in Jarama, but I'd be grateful if someone is able to confirm it.
- theracer120
- Elite Member
- Posts: 6218
- Joined: 15 years ago
- Real Name: Simon
- Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
The part where the car goes through the guardrail is from Bobby Unser's Phoenix crash in 1965.
- Everso Biggyballies
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 48993
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Real Name: Chris
- Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
- Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
- Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
- Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
- Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
- Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.
Impressive work picking that.theracer120 wrote: ↑2 years ago The part where the car goes through the guardrail is from Bobby Unser's Phoenix crash in 1965.
* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left
“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)
* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
- Smuto
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 3 years ago
- Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
- Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 79
- Favourite Driver: Ronnie Peterson
- Favourite Circuit: Osterreichring
- Location: Spain
Thank you. I didn't expect that video to mix two races that different. Nice catch.theracer120 wrote: ↑2 years ago The part where the car goes through the guardrail is from Bobby Unser's Phoenix crash in 1965.
- EB
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: 18 years ago
- hollie3sa
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2992
- Joined: 9 years ago
Could one of the mods (@MonteCristo @Cheeveer) move this to the Identification & Analysis among with the relevant replies?
I feel like there it'll get the attention it deserves. (Plus it'll keep the Open Wheel Crashes thread a bit tidier. Not that I would mind.)
- Everso Biggyballies
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 48993
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Real Name: Chris
- Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
- Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
- Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
- Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
- Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
- Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.
I thought @theracer120 had already identified it as Bobby Unser, as per the video he posted confirming. Or am I thinking of something else? Other stuff to ID maybe?hollie3sa wrote: ↑2 years agoCould one of the mods (@MonteCristo @Cheeveer) move this to the Identification & Analysis among with the relevant replies?
I feel like there it'll get the attention it deserves. (Plus it'll keep the Open Wheel Crashes thread a bit tidier. Not that I would mind.)
theracer120 wrote: ↑2 years ago The part where the car goes through the guardrail is from Bobby Unser's Phoenix crash in 1965.
* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left
“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)
* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
- hollie3sa
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2992
- Joined: 9 years ago
The clip shown from 0:19 - 0:20 (which is replayed in slow-mo from 0:25 - 0:27) clearly shows another accident (see e. g. the impact angle of both cars; Unser's accident also happened in the middle of a corner (see screenshot below); Unser drove the #44 car in that race while the Formula car going off has #65 (or #85?))Everso Biggyballies wrote: ↑2 years agoI thought @theracer120 had already identified it as Bobby Unser, as per the video he posted confirming. Or am I thinking of something else? Other stuff to ID maybe?hollie3sa wrote: ↑2 years agoCould one of the mods (@MonteCristo @Cheeveer) move this to the Identification & Analysis among with the relevant replies?
I feel like there it'll get the attention it deserves. (Plus it'll keep the Open Wheel Crashes thread a bit tidier. Not that I would mind.)
theracer120 wrote: ↑2 years ago The part where the car goes through the guardrail is from Bobby Unser's Phoenix crash in 1965.
I think that's the one @Smuto wanted us to identify.
There's the problem that Svensson's race number is not listed in the only 1967 F3 race at Jarama
- EB
- Advanced Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Everso Biggyballies
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 48993
- Joined: 18 years ago
- Real Name: Chris
- Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
- Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
- Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
- Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
- Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
- Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.
@hollie3sa
I can give you the chassis number of Svenson's car (BT21-#31, built April 1967) , but not the race number.
I can also tell you he crashed that car on lap 2 at Jarama in 1967.
Pos Driver Entrant Chassis Laps Time/Retire
DNF Ulf Svensson Private entry Brabham BT21 - Ford 2 Accident
http://www.racingyears.com/race.php?GP= ... 3%20Jarama
I notice Ian Ashley is also shown as a lap 2 crash DNF on the above link. (Maybe a two car crash?)
What I do find strange is that in the F2 register results Svensson is shown as P13, yet others that crashed much later in the race are shown as finishing lower than Svensson. ie Steve Matchett crashed on lap 15 yet shows in the F2 register results as finishing down in P15. Ultimately I guess, there were a stack of DNFs and their finishing position is technically irrelevant.
Another (irrelevant) thing to point out is that the Spanish GP in 1967 was not a World Championship race but Non Championship in status. It was for a combination of F1 and F2 cars, mostly F2 (I think only 4 of 17 cars entered were F1 cars). Mentioned purely to perhaps help in researching the meeting.
(There was no Championship GP in Spain from 1954 at Pedralbes -1968 when it was held at Jarama. It then alternated with Montjuic until 1975).
I can give you the chassis number of Svenson's car (BT21-#31, built April 1967) , but not the race number.
I can also tell you he crashed that car on lap 2 at Jarama in 1967.
Pos Driver Entrant Chassis Laps Time/Retire
DNF Ulf Svensson Private entry Brabham BT21 - Ford 2 Accident
http://www.racingyears.com/race.php?GP= ... 3%20Jarama
I notice Ian Ashley is also shown as a lap 2 crash DNF on the above link. (Maybe a two car crash?)
What I do find strange is that in the F2 register results Svensson is shown as P13, yet others that crashed much later in the race are shown as finishing lower than Svensson. ie Steve Matchett crashed on lap 15 yet shows in the F2 register results as finishing down in P15. Ultimately I guess, there were a stack of DNFs and their finishing position is technically irrelevant.
Another (irrelevant) thing to point out is that the Spanish GP in 1967 was not a World Championship race but Non Championship in status. It was for a combination of F1 and F2 cars, mostly F2 (I think only 4 of 17 cars entered were F1 cars). Mentioned purely to perhaps help in researching the meeting.
(There was no Championship GP in Spain from 1954 at Pedralbes -1968 when it was held at Jarama. It then alternated with Montjuic until 1975).
* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left
“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)
* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
- PTRACER
- Forum Administrator
- Posts: 42138
- Joined: 20 years ago
- Real Name: Paul
- Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
- Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 49
- Favourite Driver: Gilles Villeneuve, James Hunt
- Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife
- Car(s) Currently Owned: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X JDM
- Contact:
Svensson would have been car #22. The video is too grainy to see the car number.
Jesper Hvid wrote: ↑19 years ago Wreck of Uffe Svensson's Brabham BT21a in a F3 race at Jarama in 1967. He was hit by none other than Ian "Crashley" Ashley, and spent 2 months in hospital due to injuries:
- from this interesting Swedish site: http://www.stahlmotor.se/formel3b.htm
Developer of the 1967v3 Historic Mod for Grand Prix Legends: viewtopic.php?t=17429
King of the Race Track, Destroyer of Tyres, Breaker of Lap Records
King of the Race Track, Destroyer of Tyres, Breaker of Lap Records
- Vassago
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3449
- Joined: 20 years ago
- Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1, IndyCar
- Favourite Driver: Senna, Clark, Montoya
- Favourite Circuit: Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
- Location: Poland
There are clearly 17 cars moving from the backshot so it has to be start of the 1967 Spanish Grand Prix which had 17 starters. Car #19 should be Jean-Pierre Beltoise's Matra.
If the #65 car crash is from the F3 race at Jarama '67 then it must have been from one of the heat races rather than the final race alone.
If the #65 car crash is from the F3 race at Jarama '67 then it must have been from one of the heat races rather than the final race alone.
07.04.1968 - Flower of Scotland when will we see your like again?
01.05.1994 - We'll never forget...
01.05.1994 - We'll never forget...
- Smuto
- New Member
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 3 years ago
- Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
- Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 79
- Favourite Driver: Ronnie Peterson
- Favourite Circuit: Osterreichring
- Location: Spain
The Svensson crash happened at a heat race according to this spanish newsreel. There is also some footage of him being transported in a stretcher into a helicopter.
Minute 3:26
https://www.rtve.es/filmoteca/no-do/not-1298/1487020/
Minute 3:26
https://www.rtve.es/filmoteca/no-do/not-1298/1487020/