Sedre wrote: ↑3 years ago
No, I did not find any hidden entries on Mosport Park, so likely newspaper counts motorcyclists. Maybe they also count Chris Mudge (http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... q=a&n=3268) who died in a post-race accident instead of an unnamed biker.
However, I will give about 5-10% percent of possibility that there were two more fatal accidents which were almost unnoticed in available newspapers. George Milne (http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/focus ... =ct&n=2690) spent about 14 years on site without exact date and circumstances of accident - and still, everything I found was one small newspaper article.
I found McNally's page on MyHeritage website which provides me with his dates of birth and death (26.07.1969 - 03.09.1993). I'll create his page at the weekend alongside with several Argentinean cases which were sent to me by mi amigo Isbel Quiroz.
Sedre wrote: ↑3 years ago
@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).
There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.
[...]
Second accident happened on 13.04.1997 at Rallye Régional des Vignes de Régnié. One spectator was killed during the last special stage (video description tells "spectatrice" - maybe it means female spectator if I understood correctly). Any information about this accident is desirable.
[...] and second one depicts several other accidents where spectators were in close proximity to Darwin Award.
The first part of the audio file is pretty much irrelevant. Informations about the organisation of the Rally (i. e. number of voluntary/paid gendarmes, budget etc.) and the 2nd part doesn't really tell you anything new except for one thing. Transcript of part 2 (from ca. 0:26) below:
L'enquête confit à la gendarmerie de Beaujeu (possibly) determinera si l'accident relève de l'imprévision ou de la responsabilité individuel des spectateurs. La spectatrice décédée des suites de ses blessures a été placé à l'extérieur de la courbe de Verjus (?) comme le sont 16 (unsure. but also irrelevant for this accident) spectateurs du Charbonnières à [19]90.
C'est en effet dans les courbes extérieures que les amoureux de (one word missing. No idea. Translates to: The lovers of the mechanical ...) méchanique aiment à se placer. C'est là que les impressions sont les plus fortes mais c'est aussi là que les pilotes même chevronnés perdent le contrôle de leurs véhicules.
Depuis les dramatiques sorties de route du [Rallye] Monte-Carlo 1990, il est interdit de se placer en extérieur sauf en position élevé. La présence hier(= yesterday)d'un commissaire tous les 500 metres n'a pu empêcher ce nouvelle accident.
Re the 'Courbe de Verjus': I'm not certain about the spelling. This is very likely the name of a certain place/spot/corner/mountain/village or sth similar. As you can see on the screenshot below (Source: Google Maps), there are many places like these. I can only assume that one of the corners of that special stage was called 'Courbe de Verjus' or sth. similar. But I have not been able to make a match.
Sedre wrote: ↑3 years ago
@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).
There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.
[...]
Second accident happened on 13.04.1997 at Rallye Régional des Vignes de Régnié. One spectator was killed during the last special stage (video description tells "spectatrice" - maybe it means female spectator if I understood correctly). Any information about this accident is desirable.
[...] and second one depicts several other accidents where spectators were in close proximity to Darwin Award.
The first part of the audio file is pretty much irrelevant. Informations about the organisation of the Rally (i. e. number of voluntary/paid gendarmes, budget etc.) and the 2nd part doesn't really tell you anything new except for one thing. Transcript of part 2 (from ca. 0:26) below:
L'enquête confit à la gendarmerie de Beaujeu (possibly) determinera si l'accident relève de l'imprévision ou de la responsabilité individuel des spectateurs. La spectatrice décédée des suites de ses blessures a été placé à l'extérieur de la courbe de Verjus (?) comme le sont 16 (unsure. but also irrelevant for this accident) spectateurs du Charbonnières à [19]90.
C'est en effet dans les courbes extérieures que les amoureux de (one word missing. No idea. Translates to: The lovers of the mechanical ...) méchanique aiment à se placer. C'est là que les impressions sont les plus fortes mais c'est aussi là que les pilotes même chevronnés perdent le contrôle de leurs véhicules.
Depuis les dramatiques sorties de route du [Rallye] Monte-Carlo 1990, il est interdit de se placer en extérieur sauf en position élevé. La présence hier(= yesterday)d'un commissaire tous les 500 metres n'a pu empêcher ce nouvelle accident.
Re the 'Courbe de Verjus': I'm not certain about the spelling. This is very likely the name of a certain place/spot/corner/mountain/village or sth similar. As you can see on the screenshot below (Source: Google Maps), there are many places like these. I can only assume that one of the corners of that special stage was called 'Courbe de Verjus' or sth. similar. But I have not been able to make a match.
Thanks!
I think this place is Verjus Emmanuel, located in Le Champ, just 4,4 km to southwest of Regnie-Durette.
Sedre wrote: ↑3 years ago
@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).
There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.
[...]
Second accident happened on 13.04.1997 at Rallye Régional des Vignes de Régnié. One spectator was killed during the last special stage (video description tells "spectatrice" - maybe it means female spectator if I understood correctly). Any information about this accident is desirable.
[...] and second one depicts several other accidents where spectators were in close proximity to Darwin Award.
The first part of the audio file is pretty much irrelevant. Informations about the organisation of the Rally (i. e. number of voluntary/paid gendarmes, budget etc.) and the 2nd part doesn't really tell you anything new except for one thing. Transcript of part 2 (from ca. 0:26) below:
L'enquête confit à la gendarmerie de Beaujeu (possibly) determinera si l'accident relève de l'imprévision ou de la responsabilité individuel des spectateurs. La spectatrice décédée des suites de ses blessures a été placé à l'extérieur de la courbe de Verjus (?) comme le sont 16 (unsure. but also irrelevant for this accident) spectateurs du Charbonnières à [19]90.
C'est en effet dans les courbes extérieures que les amoureux de (one word missing. No idea. Translates to: The lovers of the mechanical ...) méchanique aiment à se placer. C'est là que les impressions sont les plus fortes mais c'est aussi là que les pilotes même chevronnés perdent le contrôle de leurs véhicules.
Depuis les dramatiques sorties de route du [Rallye] Monte-Carlo 1990, il est interdit de se placer en extérieur sauf en position élevé. La présence hier(= yesterday)d'un commissaire tous les 500 metres n'a pu empêcher ce nouvelle accident.
Re the 'Courbe de Verjus': I'm not certain about the spelling. This is very likely the name of a certain place/spot/corner/mountain/village or sth similar. As you can see on the screenshot below (Source: Google Maps), there are many places like these. I can only assume that one of the corners of that special stage was called 'Courbe de Verjus' or sth. similar. But I have not been able to make a match.
Thanks!
I think this place is Verjus Emmanuel, located in Le Champ, just 4,4 km to southwest of Regnie-Durette.
Sedre wrote: ↑3 years ago
@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).
There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.
I recorded the whole segment so maybe it would be difficult to translate it. I'm interested in the date of the rally (Saturday/Sunday) and details of the accident of Mouetron/Crochet if it will be available..
Some passages are really hard to understand for me. I think the accident is only briefly mentioned at the very end of the report.
a regretté l'accident de Joel Mouetron à deux spéciales de l'arrivée, le R5 Turbo a prix feux et son coéquipier ??? de plusieurs fractures mais ??? espéront sont rétablissement rapide
The accident happened two stages from the arrival. The co-driver suffered multiple fractues but they (can't make out who they are talking about) are hoping for a quick recovery.
Note: The report points towards a male co-driver ('son coéquipier'); a female co-driver probably would've been mentioned as "sa coéquipiere"
Sedre wrote: ↑3 years ago
@hollie3sa, I need your help (again).
There are two more audios from INA Archives. First one about an accident which is already entered on MM.org and I'll add the second one after your translation.
I recorded the whole segment so maybe it would be difficult to translate it. I'm interested in the date of the rally (Saturday/Sunday) and details of the accident of Mouetron/Crochet if it will be available..
Some passages are really hard to understand for me. I think the accident is only briefly mentioned at the very end of the report.
a regretté l'accident de Joel Mouetron à deux spéciales de l'arrivée, le R5 Turbo a prix feux et son coéquipier ??? de plusieurs fractures mais ??? espéront sont rétablissement rapide
The accident happened two stages from the arrival. The co-driver suffered multiple fractues but they (can't make out who they are talking about) are hoping for a quick recovery.
Note: The report points towards a male co-driver ('son coéquipier'); a female co-driver probably would've been mentioned as "sa coéquipiere"
Understood. Thanks for translation.
Not sure why the reporter talked about the co-driver as male. Sylvie Crochet was Mouetron's co-driver in 1991; following her death at this rally he retired from racing. French Death Index shows her death happened on Monday (next day), so her injuries actually were fatal.
I updated information on both of these accidents and now I'm waiting for an MM update (usually happens every day). I also added a very obscure accident that happened with Soviet rally driver Rein Rummel.
I also remember about Chuck Lambert and will add him in the next one or two days.
Sedre wrote: ↑6 years ago
During 1989 Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship) held from 2 to 4 June 1989, German crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel that was involved in fatal crash, but I don't found any other information about unfortunate crew.
Jesper Hvid wrote: ↑6 years ago
Thanks both of you for the info on the new Belgian case. I'll await hollie3sa's comments, and submit the case then.
I have to say that I've not heard from mmorg for a long time, now. No update emails for weeks.
Anyhow,
---
Name: Christian Wolf or Oliver Michel (one survived).
Year: 1989.
Race: Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship), during one of the Wartet special stages.
Date of accident: 2 to 4 June.
Nationality: German.
Role: Driver or navigator.
Brand/Model: Peugeot 309 GTI.
Notes:
Crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel.
Quand à la mort, j'ai vite réalisé qu'elle était une réalité dans la vie de pilote qu'on soit amateur ou pro. En 1989 en l'espace de deux semaines, j'ai vu mourir deux jeunes en Samba rallye enroulée autour d'un poteau aux Boucles d'El Pannetrie. Je partais 3 voitures derrière eux et dans le chaos indescriptible on m'a lâché en spéciale et j'ai rattrapé l'ambulance au moment où elle arrivait sur les lieux. L'image des corps disloqués me hante encore. Deux semaines plus tard, le second jour du rallye de Wallonie a été fatal à un équipage allemand engagé sur une Peugeot 309 Gti 16S. Pilote décédé et copilote tétraplégique. Aussi trois voitures devant nous...
Christian Wolf
Complete name: Christian Wolf
Birth date: ??.??.????
Birth place: unknown
Death date: 03.06.1989
Death place: Wartet, Belgium
Nationality: West Germany
Gender: male
Age at death: ??
Event date: 03.06.1989
Series: Belgian Rally Championship
Race: 6. Rallye de Wallonie
Country: Belgium
Venue: Rallye de Wallonie
Variant: 1989, unknown special stage, Wartet
Role: driver
Vehicle type: car
Vehicle sub-type: touring car
Vehicle brand/model: Peugeot 309 GTI 16S
Vehicle number: ??
Crashed into fence and fell three meters below. Co-driver Oliver Michel was left tetraplegic.
It's actually the other way around. Just spoke with an acquaintance of mine and a friend of his. She worked in the car dealership which was owned by Wolf's parents at the time.
Christian Wolf survived and his co-driver Oliver Michel (from Rohrbach, Saarland) was killed. He was apparently braindead and the life supporting machines were turned off Monday after the accident.
Wolf is still alive but apparently severly disabled. He was cared for by his parents.
Sedre wrote: ↑6 years ago
During 1989 Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship) held from 2 to 4 June 1989, German crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel that was involved in fatal crash, but I don't found any other information about unfortunate crew.
Jesper Hvid wrote: ↑6 years ago
Thanks both of you for the info on the new Belgian case. I'll await hollie3sa's comments, and submit the case then.
I have to say that I've not heard from mmorg for a long time, now. No update emails for weeks.
Anyhow,
---
Name: Christian Wolf or Oliver Michel (one survived).
Year: 1989.
Race: Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship), during one of the Wartet special stages.
Date of accident: 2 to 4 June.
Nationality: German.
Role: Driver or navigator.
Brand/Model: Peugeot 309 GTI.
Notes:
Crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel.
Quand à la mort, j'ai vite réalisé qu'elle était une réalité dans la vie de pilote qu'on soit amateur ou pro. En 1989 en l'espace de deux semaines, j'ai vu mourir deux jeunes en Samba rallye enroulée autour d'un poteau aux Boucles d'El Pannetrie. Je partais 3 voitures derrière eux et dans le chaos indescriptible on m'a lâché en spéciale et j'ai rattrapé l'ambulance au moment où elle arrivait sur les lieux. L'image des corps disloqués me hante encore. Deux semaines plus tard, le second jour du rallye de Wallonie a été fatal à un équipage allemand engagé sur une Peugeot 309 Gti 16S. Pilote décédé et copilote tétraplégique. Aussi trois voitures devant nous...
Christian Wolf
Complete name: Christian Wolf
Birth date: ??.??.????
Birth place: unknown
Death date: 03.06.1989
Death place: Wartet, Belgium
Nationality: West Germany
Gender: male
Age at death: ??
Event date: 03.06.1989
Series: Belgian Rally Championship
Race: 6. Rallye de Wallonie
Country: Belgium
Venue: Rallye de Wallonie
Variant: 1989, unknown special stage, Wartet
Role: driver
Vehicle type: car
Vehicle sub-type: touring car
Vehicle brand/model: Peugeot 309 GTI 16S
Vehicle number: ??
Crashed into fence and fell three meters below. Co-driver Oliver Michel was left tetraplegic.
It's actually the other way around. Just spoke with an acquaintance of mine and a friend of his. She worked in the car dealership which was owned by Wolf's parents at the time.
Christian Wolf survived and his co-driver Oliver Michel (from Rohrbach, Saarland) was killed. He was apparently braindead and the life supporting machines were turned off Monday after the accident.
Wolf is still alive but apparently severly disabled. He was cared for by his parents.
Well, I think that you're right that it's the same Christian Wolf who was involved in the 1989 Wallonie accident. Almost everyone in the comments remembers Olli - likely, Oliver Michel.
Sedre wrote: ↑6 years ago
During 1989 Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship) held from 2 to 4 June 1989, German crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel that was involved in fatal crash, but I don't found any other information about unfortunate crew.
Jesper Hvid wrote: ↑6 years ago
Thanks both of you for the info on the new Belgian case. I'll await hollie3sa's comments, and submit the case then.
I have to say that I've not heard from mmorg for a long time, now. No update emails for weeks.
Anyhow,
---
Name: Christian Wolf or Oliver Michel (one survived).
Year: 1989.
Race: Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship), during one of the Wartet special stages.
Date of accident: 2 to 4 June.
Nationality: German.
Role: Driver or navigator.
Brand/Model: Peugeot 309 GTI.
Notes:
Crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel.
Quand à la mort, j'ai vite réalisé qu'elle était une réalité dans la vie de pilote qu'on soit amateur ou pro. En 1989 en l'espace de deux semaines, j'ai vu mourir deux jeunes en Samba rallye enroulée autour d'un poteau aux Boucles d'El Pannetrie. Je partais 3 voitures derrière eux et dans le chaos indescriptible on m'a lâché en spéciale et j'ai rattrapé l'ambulance au moment où elle arrivait sur les lieux. L'image des corps disloqués me hante encore. Deux semaines plus tard, le second jour du rallye de Wallonie a été fatal à un équipage allemand engagé sur une Peugeot 309 Gti 16S. Pilote décédé et copilote tétraplégique. Aussi trois voitures devant nous...
Christian Wolf
Complete name: Christian Wolf
Birth date: ??.??.????
Birth place: unknown
Death date: 03.06.1989
Death place: Wartet, Belgium
Nationality: West Germany
Gender: male
Age at death: ??
Event date: 03.06.1989
Series: Belgian Rally Championship
Race: 6. Rallye de Wallonie
Country: Belgium
Venue: Rallye de Wallonie
Variant: 1989, unknown special stage, Wartet
Role: driver
Vehicle type: car
Vehicle sub-type: touring car
Vehicle brand/model: Peugeot 309 GTI 16S
Vehicle number: ??
Crashed into fence and fell three meters below. Co-driver Oliver Michel was left tetraplegic.
It's actually the other way around. Just spoke with an acquaintance of mine and a friend of his. She worked in the car dealership which was owned by Wolf's parents at the time.
Christian Wolf survived and his co-driver Oliver Michel (from Rohrbach, Saarland) was killed. He was apparently braindead and the life supporting machines were turned off Monday after the accident.
Wolf is still alive but apparently severly disabled. He was cared for by his parents.
Well, I think that you're right that it's the same Christian Wolf who was involved in the 1989 Wallonie accident. Almost everyone in the comments remembers Olli - likely, Oliver Michel.
Sorry. I should've put a bit more effort into my reply. Yes, it definitely is the same Christian Wolf. I talked on the phone with the person who helped us correct the initial entry. And he mentioned that Wolf had died recently.
Sedre wrote: ↑6 years ago
During 1989 Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship) held from 2 to 4 June 1989, German crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel that was involved in fatal crash, but I don't found any other information about unfortunate crew.
Jesper Hvid wrote: ↑6 years ago
Thanks both of you for the info on the new Belgian case. I'll await hollie3sa's comments, and submit the case then.
I have to say that I've not heard from mmorg for a long time, now. No update emails for weeks.
Anyhow,
---
Name: Christian Wolf or Oliver Michel (one survived).
Year: 1989.
Race: Rallye de Wallonie (round of Belgium rally championship), during one of the Wartet special stages.
Date of accident: 2 to 4 June.
Nationality: German.
Role: Driver or navigator.
Brand/Model: Peugeot 309 GTI.
Notes:
Crew left the road during one of Wartet special stages, crashed into fence and fell three meters below; one of drivers was killed and second was left tetraplegic. According to ewrc-results.com, it was Peugeot 309 GTI of Christian Wolf and Oliver Michel.
Quand à la mort, j'ai vite réalisé qu'elle était une réalité dans la vie de pilote qu'on soit amateur ou pro. En 1989 en l'espace de deux semaines, j'ai vu mourir deux jeunes en Samba rallye enroulée autour d'un poteau aux Boucles d'El Pannetrie. Je partais 3 voitures derrière eux et dans le chaos indescriptible on m'a lâché en spéciale et j'ai rattrapé l'ambulance au moment où elle arrivait sur les lieux. L'image des corps disloqués me hante encore. Deux semaines plus tard, le second jour du rallye de Wallonie a été fatal à un équipage allemand engagé sur une Peugeot 309 Gti 16S. Pilote décédé et copilote tétraplégique. Aussi trois voitures devant nous...
Christian Wolf
Complete name: Christian Wolf
Birth date: ??.??.????
Birth place: unknown
Death date: 03.06.1989
Death place: Wartet, Belgium
Nationality: West Germany
Gender: male
Age at death: ??
Event date: 03.06.1989
Series: Belgian Rally Championship
Race: 6. Rallye de Wallonie
Country: Belgium
Venue: Rallye de Wallonie
Variant: 1989, unknown special stage, Wartet
Role: driver
Vehicle type: car
Vehicle sub-type: touring car
Vehicle brand/model: Peugeot 309 GTI 16S
Vehicle number: ??
Crashed into fence and fell three meters below. Co-driver Oliver Michel was left tetraplegic.
It's actually the other way around. Just spoke with an acquaintance of mine and a friend of his. She worked in the car dealership which was owned by Wolf's parents at the time.
Christian Wolf survived and his co-driver Oliver Michel (from Rohrbach, Saarland) was killed. He was apparently braindead and the life supporting machines were turned off Monday after the accident.
Wolf is still alive but apparently severly disabled. He was cared for by his parents.
Well, I think that you're right that it's the same Christian Wolf who was involved in the 1989 Wallonie accident. Almost everyone in the comments remembers Olli - likely, Oliver Michel.
Sorry. I should've put a bit more effort into my reply. Yes, it definitely is the same Christian Wolf. I talked on the phone with the person who helped us correct the initial entry. And he mentioned that Wolf had died recently.
Thanks for the confirmation. I'll try to add his LWF page as soon as possible (as well as Chuck Lambert, who was mentioned by you several months before in this thread, but I simply did not had time for him and promtly forgot about him).