Paul Warwick's Fatal Accident, Oulton Park 1991

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#16

Post by White six »

Bottom post of the previous page:

hollie3sa wrote: 3 years ago
Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago Yes there was and the Police also stopped everybody leaving the area and confiscated photography equipment, most of which was never returned to them.
No intention to criticise the police here.

But is that even lawful in the UK? I get that the police must have a possibility to obtain evidence. But never returning pieces of footage (sth that is not crucial to a case like e.g. a murder weapon) to the legal owner seems a bit weird.

Plus: If the police seizes some kind of footage. Does that automatically disallow the copyright holder from publishing that footage?
Private land so the venue or organizer could claim that footage or stills belonged to them. Perhaps they were returned to the venue?

Obviously such things are normally overlooked as 99.9% of photography will just be for personal use, but in a case like this it's not surprising if the police and venue invoked any law they could as the material would likely end up being published.

Very cheeky if equipment wasn't returned though, i'd have been writing to my mp!
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#17

Post by PTRACER »

It would be up to the family. If I died in a bloody accident in a public place, would my family allow the original photographers to have the photos back? I would imagine all of it has been destroyed by now.

Who knows, maybe someone at the track sneaked his/her camera out and still has the photos somewhere...
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#18

Post by hollie3sa »

PTRACER wrote: 3 years ago It would be up to the family. If I died in a bloody accident in a public place, would my family allow the original photographers to have the photos back? I would imagine all of it has been destroyed by now.

Who knows, maybe someone at the track sneaked his/her camera out and still has the photos somewhere...
I highly doubt that it would be legal to simply ignore the author's rights like that. At least in Germany, even in the case of death, the author's rights remain somewhat intact.
I don't think that a legally non-involved 3rd party would have a say in what's happening with these photos.
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#19

Post by White six »

hollie3sa wrote: 3 years ago
PTRACER wrote: 3 years ago It would be up to the family. If I died in a bloody accident in a public place, would my family allow the original photographers to have the photos back? I would imagine all of it has been destroyed by now.

Who knows, maybe someone at the track sneaked his/her camera out and still has the photos somewhere...
I highly doubt that it would be legal to simply ignore the author's rights like that. At least in Germany, even in the case of death, the author's rights remain somewhat intact.
I don't think that a legally non-involved 3rd party would have a say in what's happening with these photos.
No, because like I said the photos would likely belong to the organiser or venue. You can't photograph sporting events for free. These people would not have paid the organiser for the rights to photograph the event. This allows the police to collect the images; likely an instruction from the organisers.
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#20

Post by Ian-S »

You're all making the mistake of applying modern social and legal standards to a historic event from 30 years ago. My friend got his tape back but only because he wasn't at the accident scene, 30 years ago there was not "a camera in every pocket", they were infact quiet rare and generally only nerds had photographic cameras, video cameras were even rarer than that.
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#21

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Ian-S wrote: 3 years ago You're all making the mistake of applying modern social and legal standards to a historic event from 30 years ago. My friend got his tape back but only because he wasn't at the accident scene, 30 years ago there was not "a camera in every pocket", they were infact quiet rare and generally only nerds had photographic cameras, video cameras were even rarer than that.
Not the dark ages either though. I remember going to the British gp in those years and made sure i was armed with a camera even as a teenager with only a passing interest in photography. There were plenty big 35mm's but also loads of compacts available then. Given that this event would attract more enthusiasts than casuals I'd reckon you'd be surprised how many would have a camera.

Also if you looked in the dictionary at the time for nerd it said 'people who attend motor racing events at oulton park' ;)

You're right about the police not giving a feck about niceties though!
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#22

Post by hollie3sa »

Ian-S wrote: 12 years ago
Jesper Hvid wrote:
Ian-S wrote:My friend also got Warwick's crash on video from Old Hall, but it's not a great video because he goes behind the Cascades hill at one point and he's quiet a long way away, so you don't see a lot, just dust and then a big explosion and lots of black smoke.
I don't suppose this is going to be made available?
I doubt it, I haven't spoken to him for years.
As I found myself, unfortunately a lot of tapes from that period don't survived the passage of time that well, I had some great stuff on video from the 1990's but when I checked the tapes a few months ago they were all naff.
I'm sorry I'm digging out this topic again.

Would you be willing to share the name of your friend? I have no intentions of contacting him in any way. I was just wondering if I maybe came across his name in the Facebook group Oulton Park Racing.
Plenty of regular visitors to the track share their stories, photos and videos there, for example Steve Jones is flooding (Or is this word used only pejoratively? If so, which term would you choose?) with amazing footage from the late 1980s.
And I could imagine that you probably got to know each other a bit.
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#23

Post by Ian-S »

I’d rather not without talking to them first, which is practically impossible since I haven’t spoken to them for 15 years.
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#24

Post by acerogers58 »

I found this a while back in newspapers, terrible quality so you can't see much, but it seems to confirm some people snuck their cameras out that day.
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#25

Post by hollie3sa »

Ian-S wrote: 2 years ago I’d rather not without talking to them first, which is practically impossible since I haven’t spoken to them for 15 years.
I fully understand that, thank you!

acerogers58 wrote: 2 years ago I found this a while back in newspapers, terrible quality so you can't see much, but it seems to confirm some people snuck their cameras out that day.
Image
http://the-fastlane.co.uk/cpdb/crashpho ... ditid1=371
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#26

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I find it amazing that Paul still managed to win the title despite only actually being a "finisher" in 5 races, albeit winning them all.

Looking at the results Ekblom in second won rounds 8, 9 and 10, but then only finished 4th in Round 11 when only another win would have scored him the title.

Some season review footage is here, just to give people a better idea of the era.

https://motorsport.tv/duke-classic-vide ... 1991/21550
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#27

Post by hollie3sa »

I posted this a few years ago in another thread:

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#28

Post by PTRACER »

hollie3sa wrote: 2 years ago I posted this a few years ago in another thread:

I see there is an interview with Paul Warwick the weekend of his fatal crash at 22:45 or so. First time I heard him talk. He sounds almost identical to Derek.
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#29

Post by Ian-S »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago I find it amazing that Paul still managed to win the title despite only actually being a "finisher" in 5 races, albeit winning them all.

Looking at the results Ekblom in second won rounds 8, 9 and 10, but then only finished 4th in Round 11 when only another win would have scored him the title.

Some season review footage is here, just to give people a better idea of the era.

https://motorsport.tv/duke-classic-vide ... 1991/21550
His car broke in the finale, he had a misfire that the team couldn’t trace or fix, then mysteriously when they got the car back to the workshop and stripped it down, the misfire had gone, make of that what you will. IIRC the finale was at Donington and the car sounded sick from the time it rolled off the truck to the time they put it away.
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#30

Post by DoubleFart »

That piece with Derek is heart wrenching.
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#31

Post by Nononsensecapeesh »

I wonder if Paul would have been any good if he'd made it to F1?
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