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#1216

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

On this Day 15th Februrary 1929

Two-time Formula 1 champion and five-time Monaco winner Graham Hill was born on this day in 1929.


Hill loved the principality's street race, and it loved him. Lets look at the most famous driver/circuit relationship in motor racing.

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Hill after taking the first of five Monaco victories in 1963

From the March 2002 Motorsport Mag archives Paul Fearnley looks at the relationship between Graham and Monaco
Why Graham Hill was – and still is – Mr Monaco


Time was running out. On several levels. The most pressing problem, however, was to qualify. This process would have been straightforward — until just a few days ago. Which is when, in response to the huge accident at Montjuich Park during the Spanish GP, the grid had been slashed from 26 to 18. Oh, and qualifying was being held over two days this year, rather than the traditional three.

The season was just four races old, but his team had been through the wringer already. First, there was the usual time-and-motion conundrum of building the new car and contesting the flyaway South American races. After back-of-the-grid performances in Argentina and Brazil, the new car arrived at Kyalami — and showed promise, team-mate Rolf Stommelen finishing just outside the points. The flip side was his own huge crash, on oil, in the old car, during practice, from which he was lucky to walk away.

The rumour mill cranked into action again. For six years, ever since his leg-mangling somersault at Watkins Glen, the press had awaited the announcement of retirement. They thought it might have come after his 1971 International Trophy win. Or perhaps after his ’72 Le Mans success. It didn’t.
Image
British racing driver Graham Hill (1929 - 1975) during practice for the Monaco Grand Prix, 1st June 1973.
12 years after his first Monaco victory, Hill failed to qualify – and was “gutted”

He stood down in Spain, though, for journeyman Francois Migault, and endured a fraught introduction to the agonies and helplessness of ‘competing’ from the pitlane. Stommelen led a chaotic race for eight laps, until a rear wing failure over a 150mph crest caused his car to pinball between the barriers. He was badly hurt, and worse, four bystanders were killed. It was a sombre Embassy Racing with Graham Hill that pooled their resources and went to Monaco, where the boss would be their only driver.

And he was struggling. With 10 minutes of Friday morning’s two-hour session to go, Mr Monaco was the wrong side of the cut. Ian Flux was the junior member of the team: “You could see he was really trying. He drove as hard over those last few laps as he had done for some of his wins at Monaco.” Sadly, it wasn’t enough.

For the first time in the then-longest F1 career (176 starts), Graham Hill had failed to qualify for a GP, falling 0.37sec short. “He was gutted,” continues Flux, “and we were as disappointed as he was.

“But I only realised the next day what a big deal it was, when we gathered at the top of the hill in our team gear and walked towards Ste Devote behind Graham and [wife] Bette. He was all smiles and the crowd’s reaction was incredible. It was then that it dawned on me what Monaco meant to him, and what he meant to Monaco.”

An earnest and impecunious Graham Hill used to bluff his way into the Steering Wheel Club and nurse half a pint so he could mix with, and listen to, racing’s establishment. Monaco must have been a motif and (no doubt embellished) stories of its glitz and glamour could only have inspired him. He was spannering for Lotus at the time, picking up drives when he could; nobody could ever accuse him of shirking, but good hotels, good food, success and adulation, all sandwiched between the crisp white Alps and the deep blue Med, was a strong, albeit distant, incentive.

Nobody, however, not even Hill, could have predicted how inextricably linked he would become with the Principality. The connections are freakish: first grand prix, last grand prix, five wins, overhauling Fangio’s record points haul (1970), his 150th GP start (’73) — all occurred at Monaco. But the relationship was more than simply statistics. He was the life and soul of motor racing’s biggest party. He revelled in the atmosphere. And the appreciation was mutual. Ayrton Senna, who won six times, never replaced Mr Monaco, even though his flat was a toy’s throw from Portier. Like all things for Hill, though, this symbiosis did not come easily. The apprenticeship was long, difficult, but crucial. For instance, he arrived in Monaco in 1958 for his and Lotus’ GP debut (having buzzed through France in an Austin A35!) only to discover that the transporter had broken down. This delay put practice lappery at a premium, and he and team-mate Cliff Allison did well to squeak onto the 16-car grid — 12 others were not so lucky. This effort, however, had not been without incident: Graham hit a kerb at the Station Hairpin and his Lotus 12 folded underneath him.

“I remember spending all night putting it back together,” recalls Allison. “None of the mechanics wanted to take responsibility for the welding; I’d done a course at BOC in Middlesbrough, and so I did it.” Hardly ideal preparation for your GP debut.

In the race, Hill kept out of trouble, and was perhaps heading for a points finish when a halfshaft snapped after 70 laps and a rear wheel parted company. He hopped out and collapsed with heat exhaustion — a rare display of weakness for this tough competitor.
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MONTE CARLO, MONACO - MAY 10: Graham Hill waves to the crowd while taking a victory lap after winning the 1964 Monaco Grand Prix at the Circuit de Monaco on May 10, 1964 in Monte Carlo, Monaco.
Crowd spill onto track after ’64 victory

“Graham was very determined,” says Allison. “I was testing a Lotus down at Brands Hatch once and watched him go round in someone else’s Aston Martin. He spun five times or so — at just about every corner. He really got cars by the scruff of the neck and hurled them about I certainly didn’t think I was watching a driver who’d win Monaco five times.”

And so we reach that ‘natural’ thing. Already. The Jimmy Clark versus Graham Hill thing. The gifted versus the grafter thing. The Scot was certainly blessed, able to go quicker than his rivals while taking little out of the car. He could drive around problems; if there was any adapting to be done, he would find it within himself. In contrast, Graham attempted to extract every last ounce from a car’s mechanicals, and was forever fiddling with its set-up in a bid to find an edge. But his record at the unforgiving, stop-start Monaco, one of the toughest tracks on car and driver, scotches the myth that he was an unfeeling car-breaker, that he was all arms and elbows as a driver.

Bob Dance was Lotus’ chief mechanic when Graham took their 49s to victories at Monaco in 1968-69: “He didn’t slip into a car as neatly or as easily as some. He tended to be more upright, which perhaps gave the impression that he was being a bit heavyhanded. But it wasn’t as bad as it looked. He had a good mechanical feel for a racing car.”

Hill suffered in comparison with Clark — and later Jackie Stewart, another uncannily smooth, seamless Scot — but who didn’t? The bottom line was that he knew his strengths and those of his car (particularly his BRMs), and in an era that boasted John Surtees, Dan Gurney and Jack Brabham, Graham was the second-most successful driver after Clark. If Jimmy didn’t win, Graham tended to. Which is basically what happened at Monaco.

The polarity of their results there is remarkable. Despite four poles and two fastest laps from six starts, Clark never completed the course and gleaned only three points (classified fourth in 1964). Hill scored just two poles and two fastest laps in his 17 starts, but clocked up 10 finishes (nine top-sixes in a row, 1962-70) and 58 points —20 per cent of his eventual grand total of 289.

In Clark’s defence, it was his Lotus that usually let him down — clutch, gearbox, engine, suspension. But his difficulty in nailing one of his trademark rocket getaways at Monaco, his first-lap clipping of the chicane’s bales while attempting to establish one in 1964, and his and Chapman’s decision to tackle Indy rather than Monaco in 1965, suggest that the spate of defeats here, and the track’s attendant problems, were not something the dominant partnership of the era revelled in. “It’s a special place with special pressures,” says Stewart, BRM team-mate to Hill in 1965-66, Monaco victor in the latter year. “Graham demonstrated that he knew what it took to win there, that he could last the pace — he was a robust man, quite big for a racing driver. And he proved he could drive very accurately. He’d learned that you didn’t win by making mistakes. If you look at his career, he didn’t have many accidents.” Once BRM had given him a reliable, competitive car, Hill determined to make the most of it, to maximise his hard-won experience.

Stewart: “BRMs were never as good as a Lotus in terms of grip, but they were fast, strong and reliable — good Monaco cars.”
Image
Graham Hill pushes his BRM back onto the circuit during the 1965 Monaco Grand Prix. The ’65 off led to incredible comeback drive

Which is why they won four in a row (1963-66), securing eight podium finishes in the same period. They should have won in ’62, too, but Hill’s most dominant Monaco performance in the presence of Clark led to disappointment eight laps from home, when his V8 croaked, dry of oil. Clark’s gearbox failure with 20 laps to go in ’63, which gave Hill his first Monaco win, was justice done.

In 1964, Hill, Clark and Gurney’s Brabham slugged it out. Graham and Tony Rudd, BRM’s technical chief, the two men most responsible for pulling the team around, had worked a stroke for this race, fitting ventilated rear discs from the 1960 2.5-litre car to the front of the new P261. Hill bided his time before picking off Gurney at Mirabeau, his favourite overtaking point, around mid-distance. He then staved off Clark to win, finishing with two gallons of fuel, only half-worn brakes and the fastest lap to his name. A calculating, dominant performance.

His hat-trick victory showed another side to Hill: the charger. Forced up the chicane’s escape road by a hampered backmarker on lap 25, he dropped to fifth, having lost 30sec pushing his car back onto the track and restarting it. Forty laps later, he was back in the lead. Some of the shine was taken off this by Clark’s absence but, by Rudd’s reckoning, it was still Hill’s finest drive in a BRM.

His driver stated the car had not given him a moment’s anxiety, even though he had “hammered it”.

It wasn’t always so. His next two years were spent nursing cars home. His Tasman-spec P261 gave him plenty to cope with in 1966 (slipping clutch, low oil pressure, cutting-out engine and bad handling) as did his Lotus 33-BRM in ’67 (gearbox, clutch, low oil and low fuel). He was lapped on both occasions, but still finished third and second.

“Graham certainly knew how to bring a car home,” says longtime GP correspondent John Blunsden. “He was almost as good as Jack Brabham in that respect. Perhaps their mechanicking backgrounds helped them in this.

“There was no great expectation each year that Graham would win at Monaco. To be honest, the buzz was always, ‘Will this be Jimmy’s year?’ You knew Graham would qualify well, have a good run and be in with a shout — especially as he seemed to go better on the slow to medium-speed circuits. I think he found it harder to be quick at Monza than he did at Monaco.”
Image
Graham Hill (Lotus-Ford) in the 1968 Monaco Grand Prix.
Hill rounds Massenet en route to claiming a win which help lift Lotus after Clark’s death

Early use by BRM of electronic sector timing proved Stewart to be far quicker than Hill through a particular Snetterton corner. Jackie braked early and gently in order to carry more speed into the apex and get back onto the power earlier. Hill, who preferred a much stiffer set-up, braked late and hard, put the power down later, but more aggressively. Asked if he would adapt his style, he pointed out that he was quicker over the full lap. He stuck to what he knew. Which continued to serve him well at Monaco. Hill had moulded BRM around himself; but at Lotus he ran head-on into the Chapman/Clark axis. He was man enough to take it on the chin and step into the breach when Clark was killed at Hockenheim in 1968 and a distraught Chapman absented himself from the team. Chapman reappeared at Monaco and was, understandably, in an odd mood. The atmosphere was strained, but Hill kept his eye on the ball to score his fourth Monaco win, thus ending Lotus’ seven-year Monaco victory drought with the first run of the 49B.

It was a strange race, Stewart non-starting because of a broken wrist, and 11 of the 16 starters retiring by lap 17. Hill provided an oasis of calm, while Richard Attwood provided the only spark of interest. Replacing Mike Spence at BRM, and with just one GP start since 1965, he gave chase in the torquey V12 P126.

“I wasn’t sure how to pace myself or the car,” says Attwood. “It had been reduced to an 80-lap race that year, but at the end I realised I had enough energy to do 90 laps, or 100.” Attwood, catching glimpses of the Lotus diving into Mirabeau, increased his pace throughout, setting the fastest lap on the last lap, but Hill controlled the gap. It was only when Attwood drove the 49B at Monaco in 1969, deputising for the injured Rindt, that he realised how good a car it was, and that Graham had probably had the ’68 race in his pocket throughout.

The stronger B, its Hewland ’box better suited to Hill’s preferred blockchanging style (eg fifth to second) compared to the sequential change (five, four, three, two) demanded by the 49’s original ZF unit, gave him a perfect platform from which to restore Lotus pride and win his second title, in 1968. There was, however, only one more GP victory in the tank: a fifth Monaco win, in 1969. That year, he drove craftily, banking on practice problems recurring to put out leader Stewart’s Matra and Chris Amon’s chasing Ferrari. This is exactly what happened.


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Lotus-Ford driver Graham Hill celebrates his win in the 1969 Monaco Grand Prix.
Hill took his fifth and final Monaco win in ’69

Attwood finished fourth: “Graham was very confident about racing at Monaco, understandably so, and was able to drive very precisely. And perhaps his method of driving [braking hard and late, and skipping gears] helped here.” So Monaco suited his personality, his cats, his driving style and his approach to racing. Time, though, was running out and Chapman shipped him on to Rob Walker for 1970. Defying all prognoses, Graham was lowered into the royal blue Lotus for the first GP of the season. He finished sixth. He was fifth at Monaco, but not before he’d crashed in practice. A shunt on lap two of the ’71 GP put a further dent in the reputation. He would become the sort of well-meaning backmarker he used to slice by, yet he plugged on, his new team thankful for his experience, if not his speed, in 1973-74.

It wasn’t until he’d found the man he believed to be Britain’s next world champion that he felt able to retire. That 1975 Monaco walk was made easier by the warmth of the reception and his signing of Tony Brise on the Friday night. At the next race, after Brise qualified seventh at Zolder, his mind was made up: it was time to make way. It was the right decision. One that looked set to bear fruit in 1976.

Only for time to run out on a foggy November evening. Unwittingly, Monaco and its favourite son had bade farewell.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... /21/graham

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#1217

Post by Starling »

Damn, Graham was unique. We're lucky to have seen his son race and win, and then tell us about it.

I've watched the documentary "The Killer Years" recently, and I've learned how Lotus and other British builders were called disparagingly "garagisti" (by Enzo Ferrari, I think) because they threw together their cars caring only for speed and not for sturdiness. People say that's the reason Jim Clark died. Anyway, Lotus improved and reached the mid-eighties as a sturdy, winning car, especially when driven by ABB ("another bloody Brazilian", as Jackie Stewart related, I think).

For me Graham was impressive especially because when a comrade crashed, his blue-and-striped helmet was always there, not just when Jim died. I'm glad that I had a glimpse of his personality from Damon Hill's book "Watching the Wheels", and also a sad insight on his unfortunate death, which left a terrible toll on his family and his son. If only... He'd probably be dead now, but just imagine him and Jackie sparring for decades if that damn plane had not crashed.
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#1218

Post by erwin greven »

Starling wrote: 2 years ago because they threw together their cars caring only for speed and not for sturdiness. People say that's the reason Jim Clark died. Anyway, Lotus improved and reached the mid-eighties as a sturdy, winning car, especially when driven by ABB ("another bloody Brazilian", as Jackie Stewart related, I think).
Pity the improvement in safety took a decade. Jimmy, Jochen tried in vain, and i am convinced Emerson, Ronnie and Mario would have talked about safety too.
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#1219

Post by Starling »

erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago
Starling wrote: 2 years ago because they threw together their cars caring only for speed and not for sturdiness. People say that's the reason Jim Clark died. Anyway, Lotus improved and reached the mid-eighties as a sturdy, winning car, especially when driven by ABB ("another bloody Brazilian", as Jackie Stewart related, I think).
Pity the improvement in safety took a decade. Jimmy, Jochen tried in vain, and i am convinced Emerson, Ronnie and Mario would have talked about safety too.
You mean Jochen Rindt, of course? Monza 1970 was bad. I love the circuit because I was born next door, but it's merciless. Interestingly, at the time, the GPDA was headed by Hill and Rindt, two of the drivers most concerned with safety. Wasn't Stewart on it too?

(Want to write more but work calls)
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#1220

Post by erwin greven »

Stewart was not in it. It was Graham and Jochen. They demanded armco all around the Nürburgring Nordschleife and after the latter one declined they decided to boycott the track and go to Hockenheim.
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#1221

Post by SBan83 »

erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago Stewart was not in it. It was Graham and Jochen. They demanded armco all around the Nürburgring Nordschleife and after the latter one declined they decided to boycott the track and go to Hockenheim.
Honestly, after seeing what armco did to Cevert and Koinigg, I'd take my chances with dodging trees.

That said, there were those like Moss and Ickx who were more cavalier in their attitude to the risk. They were of the opinion that lessening the danger devalued the achievement. To be frank, I can't disagree with that entirely either. It's like someone had said back then, going through a corner at maximum speed is impressive, but doing the same while there's a rock face on one side and a ditch on the other, that's something else.
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#1222

Post by erwin greven »

Installing armco is a "talent" too. It was very simple: in the first decade of armco fencing, many times it was not installed properly. Jimmy Clark hitted trees. The trees won. Like they mostly do. Ask Joakim Bonnier... oh, wait...

Up to 1975, Montjuic, organizations were very lax in installing armco. Koinigg went underneath it. Williamson was launched by it, Cevert rolled over it, slicing him to twin brothers.
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#1223

Post by acerogers58 »

On this day 10 years ago.. Montoya hits the jet dryer at Daytona.

The 2012 Daytona 500 had already made history before the drop of the green flag, wet weather had forced the race to be moved from its original 1pm Sunday time slot to 7pm Monday night, thus becoming the first Daytona 500 to start in "prime time".

David Stremme's engine failed on lap 157 and his car spun in front of a small pack of traffic after his car dropped oil on the track, causing the seventh caution. The leaders made pit stops for fuel and tires. Under caution, Juan Pablo Montoya reported to his team that he felt a vibration on his car after leaving pit road; he returned to his pit box on lap 159 where his pit crew checked underneath his car for the vibration which they could not find. He then drove at racing speed after rejoining the track at turn two to catch up with the pace car when a rear trailing arm on his car broke at turn three where two jet dryers were clearing debris. He lost control, skidded up the banking and collided with a trailer-mounted jet engine filled with 200 US gallons (760 l; 170 imp gal) of jet kerosene, destroying it and rupturing the fuel tank, which started leaking fuel onto the track. Montoya drifted down the track onto the infield grass. Seconds later, Terry Labonte drove over the stream; a spark caused the fuel to ignite, creating a wall of fire across the track. The conflagration caused a red flag to be shown.
Image

Over the course of two hours and five minutes, NASCAR officials extinguished the fire and cleaned and repatched the track. Montoya climbed out of his car on his own, but the driver of the safety truck, 52-year-old Duane Barnes, had to be assisted down the banking. Montoya and Barnes were taken to the nearby Halifax Medical Center for examination. The jet dryer and the truck it was attached to was removed from the track by two forklifts. Light rain hit at the track and later broke up. Brad Keselowski gained a large amount of attention during the red flag when he used an iPhone to photograph the accident scene and post it to Twitter. Dave Blaney, Landon Cassill, Tony Raines and Gilliland were the leaders prior to the red flag, having not made pit stops under caution. With the restart of the race uncertain, drivers got out of their cars on the backstretch, and huddled around Blaney and Cassills cars. Blaney, a journeyman driver who had never won a cup series race, maintained a calm face despite there being a real possibility he could be declared the winner if the track was unable to be repaired. The red flag was lifted at 11:57 p.m. EST. Blaney, Cassill, Raines and Gilliland made 1 lap under caution, quietly hoping the asphalt would crumble as the cars made their way through turn 3 for the first time since the accident, however the track held and they made pit stops for fuel, marking an end of their brief chance to win.


Kenseth took the lead for the lap 166 restart, ahead of teammate Biffle and Dale Earnhardt Jr in third, and maintained the lead for the next ten laps. On lap 176, the eighth caution was issued after Casey Mears made contact with Aric Almirola, who regained control of his car, but Mears went into the side of Ambrose in the first turn. Kenseth led the field at the lap 182 restart, followed by Biffle. Five laps later, however, a multi-car collision occurred on the frontstretch after Jamie McMurray cut a tire, veered off and collided with Kasey Kahne, triggering an eleven car chain-reaction accident involving Edwards, Stewart, Almirola, Keselowski and Smith. Earnhardt's and Stewart's cars sustained minor damage; the ninth caution of the race was issued. The race restarted on lap 194, with Kenseth again leading. As the cars were running single file, A second multi-car collision occurred on lap 197 the entry to turn one, collecting a total of 18 cars including Stewart, Blaney, Stenhouse, Cassill, Kyle Busch and Ryan Newman, this triggered the final caution of the race. At the lap 201 restart, a green–white–checker finish extended the race to 202 laps, Kenseth lead Biffle, Hamlin, Earnhardt and Burton. Kenseth withstood pressure from Biffle and Earnhardt over the final two laps and crossed the finish line on lap 202 to win his second Daytona 500. Biffle weaved on the backstretch to block Earnhardt but the Hendrick Motorsports driver passed Biffle at the finish for second. Hamlin finished fourth, and Burton was fifth. Menard, Harvick, Edwards, Logano and Martin completed the top ten finishers. The race had a total of ten cautions and twenty-five lead changes among ten different drivers.
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The events of this race were covered in the documentary "The Day: Daytona Primetime"
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#1224

Post by Starling »

erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago Installing armco is a "talent" too. It was very simple: in the first decade of armco fencing, many times it was not installed properly. Jimmy Clark hitted trees. The trees won. Like they mostly do. Ask Joakim Bonnier... oh, wait...

Up to 1975, Montjuic, organizations were very lax in installing armco. Koinigg went underneath it. Williamson was launched by it, Cevert rolled over it, slicing him to twin brothers.
Yeah, dammit. I did not know Williamson's accident was also due to ARMCO. I've read up a bit about SAFER, the foam-based barrier. Wish it had been lining Tamburello in 1994.

It would not have saved poor Ratzenberger anyway. I still blame Senna's death on Italian mischief. They should have cancelled the GP because Roland was so clearly dead on the spot. I'm Italian so you know how much it costs me to say this. I have a grudge against Ferrari too, but I don't know enough to elaborate right now.
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#1225

Post by erwin greven »

Williamson died because of the lack of proper equipped fire men. They did not have the equipment to conquer an F1 car on fire. Also the marshals were not wearing fireproof suits.

About the armco: the posts were not deep enough into the ground. So the barrier did bend over easily when Williamson's car hit it. And it acted like a ramp to turn the car upside down.
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#1226

Post by Starling »

erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago Williamson died because of the lack of proper equipped fire men. They did not have the equipment to conquer an F1 car on fire. Also the marshals were not wearing fireproof suits.

About the armco: the posts were not deep enough into the ground. So the barrier did bend over easily when Williamson's car hit it. And it acted like a ramp to turn the car upside down.
Thanks. I knew about the inadequacy of Zandvoort's marshals, I get mad every time I think about the guy in a jacket and tie trying to stop Purley - a jacket and tie, for God's sake. But I did not know about the role that ARMCO played in Roger's death.

[Edit: Now I don't remember whether Jacket-and-Tie was trying to stop David or trying to slow down the cars. Not too keen about watching the video again.]
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#1227

Post by Starling »

erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago Williamson died because of the lack of proper equipped fire men. They did not have the equipment to conquer an F1 car on fire. Also the marshals were not wearing fireproof suits.

About the armco: the posts were not deep enough into the ground. So the barrier did bend over easily when Williamson's car hit it. And it acted like a ramp to turn the car upside down.
David Tremayne in "The Lost Generation" says that Roger's accident was first caused by a burst tyre, then by the impact with a faulty ARMCO guardrail. I've heard Mr. Tremayne is on this forum but I don't know his forum name, I would love to say hi.
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erwin greven
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#1228

Post by erwin greven »

Starling wrote: 2 years ago
erwin greven wrote: 2 years ago Williamson died because of the lack of proper equipped fire men. They did not have the equipment to conquer an F1 car on fire. Also the marshals were not wearing fireproof suits.

About the armco: the posts were not deep enough into the ground. So the barrier did bend over easily when Williamson's car hit it. And it acted like a ramp to turn the car upside down.
David Tremayne in "The Lost Generation" says that Roger's accident was first caused by a burst tyre, then by the impact with a faulty ARMCO guardrail. I've heard Mr. Tremayne is on this forum but I don't know his forum name, I would love to say hi.
Yes, he had a tire failure at the Hondevlak. Hit the gardrail, which acted as a ramp to turn the car upside down. He came to halt at the entry of Tunnel-Oost.
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#1229

Post by Starling »

I knew about the inadequacy of Zandvoort's marshals, I get mad every time I think about the guy in a jacket and tie trying to stop Purley - a jacket and tie, for God's sake. But I did not know about the role that ARMCO played in Roger's death.

[Edit: Now I don't remember whether Jacket-and-Tie was trying to stop David or trying to slow down the cars. Not too keen about watching the video again.]
For the record: Checked the video and "The Lost Generation" pp. 98-99. Mr. Tremayne describes the guy as "wearing a leather coat with fur collar", hence the code name "Fur Collar". He is indeed the first, with a policeman, to reach Roger's wreck. While David tries to lift the car, "Fur Collar waves down passing drivers, while talking into a hand-held radio."

I thought he was using a whistle... absurd, I know.

It must be said that Fur Collar (and tie) DID try to help David, alongside with the policeman. But when it was clear that their efforts were useless, David walked away briefly and gave a shove to Fur Collar, then to a lady trying to help him away from the track. What always moves me and helps me stand the sight of this video is David's steadfast attitude. He stayed there, even when they pulled Roger from the wreck. RIP guys.
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#1230

Post by Andy »

Starling wrote: 2 years ago
I knew about the inadequacy of Zandvoort's marshals, I get mad every time I think about the guy in a jacket and tie trying to stop Purley - a jacket and tie, for God's sake. But I did not know about the role that ARMCO played in Roger's death.

[Edit: Now I don't remember whether Jacket-and-Tie was trying to stop David or trying to slow down the cars. Not too keen about watching the video again.]
For the record: Checked the video and "The Lost Generation" pp. 98-99. Mr. Tremayne describes the guy as "wearing a leather coat with fur collar", hence the code name "Fur Collar". He is indeed the first, with a policeman, to reach Roger's wreck. While David tries to lift the car, "Fur Collar waves down passing drivers, while talking into a hand-held radio."

I thought he was using a whistle... absurd, I know.

It must be said that Fur Collar (and tie) DID try to help David, alongside with the policeman. But when it was clear that their efforts were useless, David walked away briefly and gave a shove to Fur Collar, then to a lady trying to help him away from the track. What always moves me and helps me stand the sight of this video is David's steadfast attitude. He stayed there, even when they pulled Roger from the wreck. RIP guys.
Not quite sure how much you're into marshaling anything less than the sports forerunners (F1 mainly) but from own experience everything is allowed unless you turn up in shorts. Sometimes safety boots are required as well. These days you'll get an orange bib from the organizers unless you get along your own shiny overall. And even then you got to wear that bib.
Having marshaled the Isle of Man TT, the Manx Grand Prix and the Post TT races at Billown in different weather conditions I can tell you that you sometimes wish for a fur collar leather coat. Especially when you have to hide in the shades an entire Manx autumn day long.

It's nothing offensive, but back then this was the clothing to protect yourself especially when considering that it was a volunteer and it was one of the utmost coastal places in the Netherlands. A stiff breeze, anyone? ;)
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#1231

Post by Starling »

Andy wrote: 2 years ago Not quite sure how much you're into marshaling anything less than the sports forerunners (F1 mainly) but from own experience everything is allowed unless you turn up in shorts. Sometimes safety boots are required as well. These days you'll get an orange bib from the organizers unless you get along your own shiny overall. And even then you got to wear that bib.
Having marshaled the Isle of Man TT, the Manx Grand Prix and the Post TT races at Billown in different weather conditions I can tell you that you sometimes wish for a fur collar leather coat. Especially when you have to hide in the shades an entire Manx autumn day long.

It's nothing offensive, but back then this was the clothing to protect yourself especially when considering that it was a volunteer and it was one of the utmost coastal places in the Netherlands. A stiff breeze, anyone? ;)
You surely know more than I do, and lucky you! (maybe?) I've been to the Netherlands coast but it was full summer, so I would not know.

Wish I could visit the Isle of Man. I never got further than Blackpool (aside from Ireland). Did you ever meet Mansell?...

Yeah, the whole matter is how F1 marshals were volunteers back then, and now they are professionals. I just wonder about how much it took to get to this stage. I was a baby when Roger died, but I watched on live TV Gerhard Berger almost burn alive at Imola 1989, and how the firefighters saved him. 16 years... you're right, I probably have 20/20 hindsight (as they say in Italy: "il senno di poi", which in the Eighties was often turned by sport magazines into "il Senna di poi") but still, when I think of Roger and Gerhard, I wonder why.
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