Who is the greatest American driver?

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Who is the greatest American driver?

#1

Post by PTRACER »

I always thought it to be Mario Andretti. A winner in just about everything and with a very long racing career. Is there anyone better than him?

(And some people might argue he's not a native being born in Italy)
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#2

Post by Ruslan »

The only real post-war contender for the honor is A. J. Foyt of Texas. Otherwise, cannot think of anyone else that really matches his dominance in so many categories.

Mario Andretti was actually born in what is now Croatia. Him and Aldo were born at Motovun in 1940, the migrated from there in 1948 as part of the "Istrian-Dalmatian Exodus" of 230,000 to 350,000 migrants over two decades. That part of Italy had became part of Yugoslavia. They lived in a refugee camp near Lucca, in Tuscany, Italy from 1948 to 1955 and then emigrated in June 1955 to Nazareth, Pennsylvania as they had a brother-in-law that had lived in the United States since 1909. They are still in Nazareth today (as is Michael and Marco). Mario and Aldo Andretti first started racing stock cars in the United States in 1959 (although some bios incorrectly claim they raced in Italy before coming to the U.S.). He became a U.S. citizen in 1965.

Nice little article: https://www.mcall.com/sports/auto-racin ... story.html

And: https://lehighvalleystyle.com/people/fe ... -andretti/
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#3

Post by Michkov »

I have a hard time finding anyone as prolific as Andretti. He won in everything he sat in not only in the US but also worldwide.
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#4

Post by jimclark »

The "greatest" in what sense? I suggest Dan Gurney as he won in everything he drove (some his own to boot (F1, Indy cars), AND was intelligent as anyone I've ever known.
His Eagles (F1, Indy, GTP) of course are world famous. Also, his T/A 'Cudas and IMSA Celicas were none too shabby.

'Been said that Jim said he was the only "driver" he "feared".....which is sayin' somethin'..... :)
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#5

Post by Cheeveer »

jimclark wrote: 3 years ago The "greatest" in what sense? I suggest Dan Gurney as he won in everything he drove (some his own to boot (F1, Indy cars), AND was intelligent as anyone I've ever known.
His Eagles (F1, Indy, GTP) of course are world famous. Also, his T/A 'Cudas and IMSA Celicas were none too shabby.

'Been said that Jim said he was the only "driver" he "feared".....which is sayin' somethin'..... :)
I'm inclined to agree. What Dan's career didn't have was an early start, and then longevity. He did all his driving within a span of 15 years or so, compared to Mario's and AJ's 30+.
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#6

Post by Ruslan »

jimclark wrote: 3 years ago The "greatest" in what sense? I suggest Dan Gurney as he won in everything he drove (some his own to boot (F1, Indy cars), AND was intelligent as anyone I've ever known.
His Eagles (F1, Indy, GTP) of course are world famous. Also, his T/A 'Cudas and IMSA Celicas were none too shabby.
Big fan of Dan Gurney. An amazing driver. Still, he won 4 GPs and no world championships, and only 7 USAC Champ Car races.

If I was making a list of top-ten post-war American drivers he would certainly be on it (list would probably start 1. Mario Andretti, 2. A.J. Foyt, 3...).
'Been said that Jim said he was the only "driver" he "feared".....which is sayin' somethin'..... :)
Well, as I understood it, that was a result of a conversation between Jim Clark's father and Dan Gurney at Jim Clark's funeral. That could be true, could be his father being polite and nice, or some point in between. That said, I think there is some real truth that he was one of the fastest men in F1 in the 1960s (witness Brabham making him the team leader on his own team).

By the way, I did see Dan Gurney race in his "retirement." He often showed up for the Toyota Pro/Celebrity challenge before the Long Beach Grand Prix (both F1 and CART). He almost always won. Was clearly on another level to everyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Pro/Celebrity_Race
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#7

Post by jimclark »

Ruslan wrote: 3 years ago
jimclark wrote: 3 years ago The "greatest" in what sense?
Big fan of Dan Gurney. An amazing driver. Still, he won 4 GPs and no world championships, and only 7 USAC Champ Car races.

If I was making a list of top-ten post-war American drivers he would certainly be on it (list would probably start 1. Mario Andretti, 2. A.J. Foyt, 3...).
'Been said that Jim said he was the only "driver" he "feared".....which is sayin' somethin'..... :)
Well, as I understood it, that was a result of a conversation between Jim Clark's father and Dan Gurney at Jim Clark's funeral. That could be true, could be his father being polite and nice, or some point in between. That said, I think there is some real truth that he was one of the fastest men in F1 in the 1960s (witness Brabham making him the team leader on his own team).
I hope you know that you're not edumacating me.... :tongue:

All you list above means nothing. His stint in F1 was nothing (never a super competitive car; not even his own eagle with the hand built Weslake breaking all the time); as in any other series. He'd jump in and win in the few races he was in. NASCAR, what was it?....5 Riverside wins?
Besides what you stated about Indy cars (which he never ran a whole season; and again, in his own cars after his l'il Lotus stint)...his what?....3 seconds, a third with his stock block Ford and another 2nd with n Offy in the 500? The man was brilliant.

That's why I asked "The "greatest" in what sense?". ;)

I put Donohue and Holbert right behind him for greatest American for the same reasons. They didn't just drive well.....they were great men. :)
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#8

Post by Ruslan »

jimclark wrote: 3 years ago I put Donohue and Holbert right behind him for greatest American for the same reasons. They didn't just drive well.....they were great men. :)
Well, greatest men is a different standard. A number of great drivers wouldn't make that list.
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#9

Post by jimclark »

Understood. But, as they were great drivers (set) AND great men (subset), my submission stands! :tongue:

:smiley:
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#10

Post by SBan83 »

It's all a matter of opinion, of course, but since we're going with drivers, not part-time greasemonkeys as well, I would have to go with Mario just because of the sheer diversity of his driving achievements (driversity? :blush: ), all of which included winning the highest prize of whatever he competed in. NASCAR - Daytona 500, Indycars - Indy 500 and the title, F1 - Championship. The last one really clinches it for me, as doing all those things and then winning the grandest driving title in the WORLD. Yes, Phil Hill won the F1 title too, and he won Le Mans as well, but the breadth of Mario's winning resume is far wider because of him reaching the summit on both sides of the Atlantic.
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#11

Post by Ruslan »

Well, the challenge of putting together an American top-ten list is that most of the candidates were never in F1 or even in the same race series. So it is hard to directly compare them with any objectivity.

So for example we have Andretti, Gurney and Hill in F1 (and Hill is often underrated). We have Andretti, A.J. Foyt, Rick Mears, Bobby Unser, and Wild Bill Vukovich in Indy Car. We have real racers like Dan Gurney and Parnelli Jones bouncing around. And then there is the NASCAR crowd which rarely race outside their series (David Pearson and Cale Yarborough did but Petty, Earnhardt and the rest did not). It is a tough list to objectively put together (I do use the word objectively for a reason).

And then there is a clearly established set of races and a racing circuit since around 1905.. Anyone want to try to compare Barney Oldfield, Ralph Mulford or Ralph De Palma to the post-WWII drivers?
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#12

Post by erwin greven »

I know Earnhardt ran the Daytona 24h at least once. But further i can't remember him doing anything else than NASCAR.
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#13

Post by EB »

Ruslan wrote: 3 years ago Wild Bill Vukovich
I think Bill Vukovich is just about the only US racing driver called Bill for whom I had never heard the Wild prefix! He was probably the best ever around the 4 turns of IMS, but good rather than great elsewhere. Jimmy Bryan was the best of the 50s, no doubt in my mind. Ruttman was amazing in his youth but a bad arm injury on the day Nelson Piquet was born screwed up his career somewhat.

I think Rick Mears could have been a success in F1, and obviously men like Jimmy Murphy, Frank Lockhart, Rex Mays, Parnelli and AJ must all get a mention, but I suppose the ultimate nod must go to Mario as he proved his worth across such a wide spectrum.
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#14

Post by Ruslan »

erwin greven wrote: 3 years ago I know Earnhardt ran the Daytona 24h at least once. But further i can't remember him doing anything else than NASCAR.
Yea, I think it was GTO. Didn't embarrass himself. Cale Yarlborough actually ran Le Mans and Indy, but no real results. Dave Pearson won a Trans-Am race back then Trans-Am was a big deal. But, there is not much racing outside of NASCAR.
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#15

Post by Ruslan »

EB wrote: 3 years ago I think Bill Vukovich is just about the only US racing driver called Bill for whom I had never heard the Wild prefix!
Not my area of expertise but: https://asipofsports.com/2019/05/26/sto ... -vukovich/
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