Schumacher vs Hamilton - Rank their Title Wins

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Schumacher vs Hamilton - Rank their Title Wins

#1

Post by DoubleFart »

I'd be really interesting to see people rank Michael Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton's World Championships in order of how great an achievement they were.

Schumacher:

1994 - Benetton Ford, winner by 1 Point over Hill. Suspect car for most of the season, banned from two events, DSQ from another, hit Hill in the final round. Car did not win the constructors.
1995 - Benetton Renault, winner convincingly over Hill. Taken out of two races by Hill, preventing an even more dominant display. Argued that the Williams was a better car, but the Benetton won the title.

2000 - Ferrari, winner against Double WC Hakkinen. Nip/tuck between the two cars all season. Car won the constructors title.
2001 - Ferrari, winner against Coulthard from Hakkinen. Wrapped up the title a little sooner than in 2001. Car won the constructors title.
2002 - Ferrari, blitzed it.
2003 - Ferrari, winner against Raikkonen and Montoya. FIA rule changes handicapped the Ferrari, and the year old Mclaren challenged as they got to grips with the F2003-GA. Car won the constructors title again.
2004 - Ferrari, blitzed it. Won 13/18 races.

Lewis:

2008 - Mclaren-Mercedes, winner by 1 Point over Massa. Much weaker teammate than 07. Won the title despite 5 wins to Massa's 6. Massa also lost a certain win in Hungary, and another strong result in Singapore. Only queries against Massa was Silverstone and Spa. Car didn't win the constructors, in part due to Kovalainen's performance.
2014 - Mercedes, winner over Rosberg (Double points inflates the margin). Car was utterly dominant other than three failures for Lewis. Pole in pretty much every race. Easy constructors champions.
2015 - Repeat of 2014.
2017 - Easily beats Bottas, and Ferrari were not close enough on pace of consistency. Wrapped the title up with (3?) races to spare. Constructors champs.
2018 - Easily beats Bottas, and Ferrari were not close enough on pace of consistency. Wrapped the title up with (3?) races to spare. Constructors champs.
2019 - Easily beats Bottas, and by the time Ferrari were close enough on pace they were handicapped for a suspect engine. Wrapped the title up with (3?) races to spare. Constructors champs.
2020 - Easily beats Bottas, and Ferrari were not close enough on pace of consistency. Wrapped the title up with (4?) races to spare. Constructors champs.
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#2

Post by DoubleFart »

I'm cautiously going with, most impressive achievement to least:

2000 - Schumacher
2003 - Schumacher
2008 - Hamilton
1995 - Schumacher
2014 - Hamilton
2015 - Hamilton
2001 - Schumacher
1994 - Schumacher
2018 - Hamilton
2002 - Schumacher
2004 - Schumacher
2017 - Hamilton
2019 - Hamilton
2020 - Hamilton
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#3

Post by White six »

I'd probably rate Schumacher's a little higher as he was in less of a drive by wire, button pushing era. I wouldn't argue against Hammy being the best of this last generation, but I'm totally bored like everyone else

I think he's relying on casuals to win spoty, not many F1 fans seem to like him anymore. In the UK I'm sure around 5-10 other drivers are more popular. That's not racism, just boredom


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#4

Post by White six »

Ps looking forward to when Hammy is 'nostalgia'
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#5

Post by MonteCristo »

DoubleFart wrote: 3 years ago I'm cautiously going with, most impressive achievement to least:

2000 - Schumacher
2003 - Schumacher
2008 - Hamilton
1995 - Schumacher
2014 - Hamilton
2015 - Hamilton
2001 - Schumacher
1994 - Schumacher
2018 - Hamilton
2002 - Schumacher
2004 - Schumacher
2017 - Hamilton
2019 - Hamilton
2020 - Hamilton
I won't argue with that too much. 2000 was a good season for Chin. Certainly the hardest either have had. And Hamilton has cruised to a number of seasons. All six of those bottom seasons were total walkovers (even 2018 was won with over three races in hand... some classic Bottas in there as well).

1994 needs punishment though. (As in scratched from the list, and given to Hill :P.)
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#6

Post by XcraigX »

DoubleFart wrote: 3 years ago 1994 - Benetton Ford, winner by 1 Point over Hill and the FIA. Suspect car for most of the season, banned from two events, DSQ from another, hit Hill in the final round. Car did not win the constructors.
(I fixed it :haha: )

Yeah, 1994 was interesting. The FIA was trying to make it very difficult for Benetton to win given that they could not prove the suspected cheating. Yet they still won. So while some points taken for "Option 13", points should be given for overcoming the DSQ (for a groove in the floor from accident damage) and the 2 race ban. I'd say it almost evens out.


2017 should be ranked a bit higher (perhaps by just switching '18 and '17). 5 victories for Ferrari with another 3 from Red-Bull plus 3 from his team-mate made this the most challenging year for Hamilton from the current formula (wide-ass and long-ass cars). 11 of 20 races were won by not-Hamilton. And he clinched the championship with 2 races to go.

2018 had 1 more win by not-Mercedes, but none from Bottas (which was a sign we should have paid attention to on his lack of being a top driver). And again it was a Mexico (2 races to go). So the more I type this the more I'm convinced that '17 and '18 need to be swapped in your current lineup.

2002 should be ranked lower. There's alot of talk about how great the competition was during this era, but Schumacher set a record for the shortest time to clinch a championship at the French GP AND on the old points system. It was a walkover by several measures. This has not been repeated in the modern era and the points were changed as a result of this dominance.
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#7

Post by DoubleFart »

Great arguments and j cant disageee.

2002 Vs 2019 and 2020?
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#8

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

XcraigX wrote: 3 years ago
2002 should be ranked lower. There's alot of talk about how great the competition was during this era, but Schumacher set a record for the shortest time to clinch a championship at the French GP AND on the old points system. It was a walkover by several measures. This has not been repeated in the modern era and the points were changed as a result of this dominance.
I agree that 2002 should be ranked lower.
However I dont see that the changes made to the point scoring were that big..... for 2003 the points for the win stayed the same at 10, but 7th and 8th were added, which meant the differential went to 10-6-4 etc to 10-8-6 etc. but I dont think it made a huge difference to anything.

It was not until 2010 that they made the big change to the points with 25 for the win and paid down to 10th. I must confess I never really understood that change and I still dont. Half the grid scoring points diminished the difficulty of point scoring, especially given the heightened reliability. But the points scores in another discussion probably.

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#9

Post by XcraigX »

Yep. I forgot the weak actual response (and for some reason I thought they went to the 25 points for a win longer ago than 2010, but then again I'm old and the Dementia may be starting). But I remember Bernie making several statements that the Ferrari dominance was not good for the sport and "major changes" were on the way at the end of 2002.
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#10

Post by DoubleFart »

The idea was the Schumacher would only be 10 points ahead (1 race win) if he won the first 5 races in the new system, but would have been 20 points clear (2 race wins) under the old.
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#11

Post by Michael Ferner »

Perhaps they should make it 10-9-8-7 etc., so that it takes ten races to be one win clear. Or, better still, 100-99-98-97 etc. - that way the championship will not be decided until the last race, no need for double-points races! :twothumbs:
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#12

Post by MonteCristo »

Or just make it so development rules aren't so closed, and when a team is better it gives others a chance to catch up instead of being practically locked in all year...

Nah, that'll never work.
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#13

Post by PTRACER »

Given the 1994 cheating controversy and the sloppy driving between him and Hill in 1994/5, I would rank those as Schumacher's least greatest titles. Unlike Bottas vs. Hamilton, Barrichello was never that far off Schumacher and was able to match and beat him on plenty of occasions. Except Ferrari told him not to do that, so he got far fewer wins than he should have.

For Schumacher, 2003 should be ranked lower, there were so many championship contenders that year, it was only pot luck that he won it.

So I can only agree with the above. 2000 was Schumacher's greatest title year, since Rubens had not fully established himself as only playing second fiddle, Hakkinen was still strong and DC was pretty good. 2008 was Hamilton's greatest title year, though any of those where Rosberg challenged him would be in a close 2nd place. The last three have been so easy for him I wonder how he hasn't gotten bored.
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#14

Post by MonteCristo »

PTRACER wrote: 3 years ago The last three have been so easy for him I wonder how he hasn't gotten bored.
Hence every race needing to be the hardest, most difficult challenge - ever - to overcome.

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