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Well, the stupid one was Giunti. Beltoise was pushing that car for several minutes (which was anything but unusual in those days), and Giunti passed him pushing at least once, but still decided to overtake under yellow flags when the accident happened. A sad and utterly horrific end to a sorry episode that shouldn't have happened in the first place, but for so many reasons went from bad to worse. It's way too easy to pin it all on Beltoise, but it was the politically correct thing to do at the time. He (and Giunti) suffered because of the incompetence of the Argentinian marshals and, most of all, the race organizers.Most dangerous driving in F1?
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If you don't think that to push your car across the truck in a 220 km/h bend is stupid and irresponsible I don't know what to say.Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years ago Well, the stupid one was Giunti. Beltoise was pushing that car for several minutes (which was anything but unusual in those days), and Giunti passed him pushing at least once, but still decided to overtake under yellow flags when the accident happened. A sad and utterly horrific end to a sorry episode that shouldn't have happened in the first place, but for so many reasons went from bad to worse. It's way too easy to pin it all on Beltoise, but it was the politically correct thing to do at the time. He (and Giunti) suffered because of the incompetence of the Argentinian marshals and, most of all, the race organizers.
Anyway ALL cars before him were passing Beltoise at racing speed, may it be, as you stated, because the yellow flags were actually not shown until Giunti crashed?
No you are right, Giunti died because he was stupid.
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It was forbidden in the WSC in those days.Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years ago Well, the stupid one was Giunti. Beltoise was pushing that car for several minutes (which was anything but unusual in those days)....
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I don't think it was. And besides, even if it was, you just didn't leave a car with nothing else amiss, and with the pits in sight - Beltoise would've been ridiculed by everybody ("didn't eat your breakfast, eh?"), and possibly reprimanded by his team, it was just not done. The choice between instant retirement and possible disqualification was no choice at all, you took every chance you can get away with, because giving up was just not on - even more than ten years later, Nigel Mansell pushed his Lotus in Dallas to a hero's applause, it was what was expected of a racing driver, and everybody did it.
As so often, circumstances played a big role. Beltoise stopped at the exit of the slowest corner, and on the racing line so he had to push the car away anyway. The problem was that the run up to the pits was uphill, and through a slightly banked curve. JP pushed the car to the edge of the track, away from the racing line, but because of the banking the car gravitated to the inside again, and from then on he was at the mercy of the marshals, who were criminally ill-prepared to deal with the situation. Many organizers at the time had a cavalier attitude towards safety, and most marshals did not have any sort of training for the job, often only applying in order to get to see the races for free. This accident was one of the catalysts to change that situation over the next ten years or so, but in the meantime a scapegoat was needed and Beltoise had his licence withdrawn for a few months, just to show that "something" was done. Nobody within racing held JP responsible.
As so often, circumstances played a big role. Beltoise stopped at the exit of the slowest corner, and on the racing line so he had to push the car away anyway. The problem was that the run up to the pits was uphill, and through a slightly banked curve. JP pushed the car to the edge of the track, away from the racing line, but because of the banking the car gravitated to the inside again, and from then on he was at the mercy of the marshals, who were criminally ill-prepared to deal with the situation. Many organizers at the time had a cavalier attitude towards safety, and most marshals did not have any sort of training for the job, often only applying in order to get to see the races for free. This accident was one of the catalysts to change that situation over the next ten years or so, but in the meantime a scapegoat was needed and Beltoise had his licence withdrawn for a few months, just to show that "something" was done. Nobody within racing held JP responsible.
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I have seen a lot of drivers in different eras pushing their cars to the pits/toward the finish line, though I have never seen anyone else but Beltoise crossing the track while doing so.
I also had a video with the live argentinian tv commentary and they really had hursh words for Beltoise behaviour, calling for the crash before it happened, and wondering why marshalls wasn't stopping him. Unfortunately my crash video collection got wiped out years ago when the hard disk in wich I had tons of material failed, otherwise I would have shared it here.
I will not try to change your mind, and I agree with you that bad marshalling had certainly a big part in the tragic outcome, but trying to reverse history and blame Giunti for the crash is something that I really cannot understand.
I also had a video with the live argentinian tv commentary and they really had hursh words for Beltoise behaviour, calling for the crash before it happened, and wondering why marshalls wasn't stopping him. Unfortunately my crash video collection got wiped out years ago when the hard disk in wich I had tons of material failed, otherwise I would have shared it here.
I will not try to change your mind, and I agree with you that bad marshalling had certainly a big part in the tragic outcome, but trying to reverse history and blame Giunti for the crash is something that I really cannot understand.
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I'm not blaming Giunti, but he certainly did his part. Mind you, all the other drivers blasted by just as fast, only they were the lucky ones. And, perhaps Giunti wasn't even trying to overtake, instead merely caught out by the swerving of the car in front, I don't know. It doesn't matter a lot after all this time, it was an effing disgrace. But so were a lot of other fatal accidents at the time.
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Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years ago I'm not blaming Giunti, but he certainly did his part. Mind you, all the other drivers blasted by just as fast, only they were the lucky ones. And, perhaps Giunti wasn't even trying to overtake, instead merely caught out by the swerving of the car in front, I don't know. It doesn't matter a lot after all this time, it was an effing disgrace. But so were a lot of other fatal accidents at the time.
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When? Where?
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Not really stupid (Giunti)! He was battling with the driver in front of him ( Parkers, a backmarker) from many laps. Of course it's Giunti's fault but Parkers isn't blameless IMO.Michael Ferner wrote: ↑3 years ago Well, the stupid one was Giunti. Beltoise was pushing that car for several minutes (which was anything but unusual in those days), and Giunti passed him pushing at least once, but still decided to overtake under yellow flags when the accident happened. A sad and utterly horrific end to a sorry episode that shouldn't have happened in the first place, but for so many reasons went from bad to worse. It's way too easy to pin it all on Beltoise, but it was the politically correct thing to do at the time. He (and Giunti) suffered because of the incompetence of the Argentinian marshals and, most of all, the race organizers.
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Jochen Rindt at Crystal Palace in his first F2 Race (1964) battled for the lead with Graham Hill for the whole race, Rindt drove absolutely close to his limit, sliding everywhere and touching Hill a lot of times. However I'm not sure if it can be considered "Dangerous Driving" becuase without any videos it's hard to judge it.White six wrote: ↑3 years ago I have a few incidents in mind but would like to see what you'd remember?
Must involve behaviour that could have resulted in a charge of dangerous driving. I suppose I could allow careless or dozy driving if the incidents they led to were carnage, or where the jury is still out whether they were stupid or downright evil.
So Senna / Prost Suzuka 1989 wouldn't qualify here, but 1990 would.
Rindt was one of the driver that still with F1 drove sideways everywhere so imagine with a F2 near the infamous walls of Crystal Palace
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