Hamilton's Racecraft

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Hamilton's Racecraft

#1

Post by DoubleFart »

I've posted on here before about how Hamilton's lack of competition has left him rusty and making errors in his racecraft. His judgement and car position is poor.

Imola L1 - puts his car in a position where Max is always going to show him the grass, runs over the kerb and damages the car.
Silverstone L1 - puts his car in a position where it's always going to hit Max, and seemingly forgets that it's full of fuel, has cold tyres, a compromised line etc.
Monza L1 - puts his car in a position where Max is always going to show him the kerb
Monza L25 - reacts too late to Max's attack, and instead of going at 45 degrees out of T1, he pulls 80 degrees and collides at the Apex of T2. If he'd gone wider out of T1, he would have shown Max the kerbs, but he was too slow in responding.

We've not really seen much from Lewis in an attacking sense since 2013, and even during 2014-2016 he collided with Rosberg on a number of occasions.

Thoughts?
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#2

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I posted elsewhere here that I believe his racing intellect is lacking. I also believe to an extent Max suffers from the same. It takes two to tango, and both seem to enjoy tango.

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#3

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago I posted elsewhere here that I believe his racing intellect is lacking. I also believe to an extent Max suffers from the same. It takes two to tango, and both seem to enjoy tango.
Hammy definitely got tangoed on Sunday

The hammy fans seem to be making the most out of 'Max didn't apologise or check he's ok'. I'd take that to mean they're not totally confident about the incident itself :happy:

This is what F1 should be about, save apologies for chummy interviews in 30 years
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#4

Post by White six »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago I've posted on here before about how Hamilton's lack of competition has left him rusty and making errors in his racecraft. His judgement and car position is poor.

Imola L1 - puts his car in a position where Max is always going to show him the grass, runs over the kerb and damages the car.
Silverstone L1 - puts his car in a position where it's always going to hit Max, and seemingly forgets that it's full of fuel, has cold tyres, a compromised line etc.
Monza L1 - puts his car in a position where Max is always going to show him the kerb
Monza L25 - reacts too late to Max's attack, and instead of going at 45 degrees out of T1, he pulls 80 degrees and collides at the Apex of T2. If he'd gone wider out of T1, he would have shown Max the kerbs, but he was too slow in responding.

We've not really seen much from Lewis in an attacking sense since 2013, and even during 2014-2016 he collided with Rosberg on a number of occasions.

Thoughts?
Age and motivation more than lack of competition imho. People will argue that Alonso hasn't lost it, but I think every driver in F1 has lost battling instinct in their 30s to varying extent. Alonso has an axe to grind, it's keeping him going

Russell will come along and make him retire, in the grand tradition of F1. There's no shame in it, just what happens to all the great champions.
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#5

Post by XcraigX »

I would first like to say that, yes I think his racecraft has gotten rusty due to lack of competition from 2017 until now. The first examples you gave are good ones.
I would add that it took him far too long to get by Alonso at Hungary. In the old days that would have been sorted in about 2 laps. However, you should also measure that by how many drivers never get past Alonso (at Hungary and other races). Alonso is still a good driver that maybe suffers from a bit of his own rust.
But your example below is just taking the anti-Hamilton view of it. It's really not very different from the prior examples, but the shoe is just on the other foot.
DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago
Monza L25 - reacts too late to Max's attack, and instead of going at 45 degrees out of T1, he pulls 80 degrees and collides at the Apex of T2. If he'd gone wider out of T1, he would have shown Max the kerbs, but he was too slow in responding.
Hamlton showed Max the curb in the same way that Max showed it to Hamilton. They did not touch prior to the crash. Max was fully on the curbing and instead of veering to the right to rejoin the track, he tried to stay left (closer to the race line) and bounced into Hamilton. They did not collide at the Apex. They collided just past the apex because Max was out of control over the curbing. It has nothing to do with Hamilton reacting too late between T1 and T2. If anything he should have left less room at T1, but I'm sure he was trying to "be fair" and not completely squeeze him out.
There comes a time when you need to admit you've lost the corner. Experience helps you understand that. Max seems to be missing that.
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#6

Post by White six »

XcraigX wrote: 2 years ago I would first like to say that, yes I think his racecraft has gotten rusty due to lack of competition from 2017 until now. The first examples you gave are good ones.
I would add that it took him far too long to get by Alonso at Hungary. In the old days that would have been sorted in about 2 laps. However, you should also measure that by how many drivers never get past Alonso (at Hungary and other races). Alonso is still a good driver that maybe suffers from a bit of his own rust.
But your example below is just taking the anti-Hamilton view of it. It's really not very different from the prior examples, but the shoe is just on the other foot.
DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago
Monza L25 - reacts too late to Max's attack, and instead of going at 45 degrees out of T1, he pulls 80 degrees and collides at the Apex of T2. If he'd gone wider out of T1, he would have shown Max the kerbs, but he was too slow in responding.
Hamlton showed Max the curb in the same way that Max showed it to Hamilton. They did not touch prior to the crash. Max was fully on the curbing and instead of veering to the right to rejoin the track, he tried to stay left (closer to the race line) and bounced into Hamilton. They did not collide at the Apex. They collided just past the apex because Max was out of control over the curbing. It has nothing to do with Hamilton reacting too late between T1 and T2. If anything he should have left less room at T1, but I'm sure he was trying to "be fair" and not completely squeeze him out.
There comes a time when you need to admit you've lost the corner. Experience helps you understand that. Max seems to be missing that.
It's a shame we couldn't see the outcome without kerbs. Max takes the position (keeps a wheel on track), collision/spins with hooked wheels, Max through but has to return position, Hammy edges him out. All possible
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#7

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

White six wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago I posted elsewhere here that I believe his racing intellect is lacking. I also believe to an extent Max suffers from the same. It takes two to tango, and both seem to enjoy tango.
Hammy definitely got tangoed on Sunday

The hammy fans seem to be making the most out of 'Max didn't apologise or check he's ok'. I'd take that to mean they're not totally confident about the incident itself :happy:

This is what F1 should be about, save apologies for chummy interviews in 30 years
I see the Hammy fans are up in alms on twitter about the fact that the medical car did not appear with all lights flashing to check Lewis was ok, with some pointed remarks as to the suitability of Alan VdM for purpose, and that he is negligent blah blah blah....

Alan VdM responded with something along the lines of it is not his decision to deploy himself.... that is the stewards job, and as far as the stewards were concerned as Lewis. was busy trying to reverse his car out from Max to try and continue, he was not trapped in the car etc etc that he was not in urgent medical need.

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#8

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago I posted elsewhere here that I believe his racing intellect is lacking. I also believe to an extent Max suffers from the same. It takes two to tango, and both seem to enjoy tango.
Hammy definitely got tangoed on Sunday

The hammy fans seem to be making the most out of 'Max didn't apologise or check he's ok'. I'd take that to mean they're not totally confident about the incident itself :happy:

This is what F1 should be about, save apologies for chummy interviews in 30 years
I see the Hammy fans are up in alms on twitter about the fact that the medical car did not appear with all lights flashing to check Lewis was ok, with some pointed remarks as to the suitability of Alan VdM for purpose, and that he is negligent blah blah blah....

Alan VdM responded with something along the lines of it is not his decision to deploy himself.... that is the stewards job, and as far as the stewards were concerned as Lewis. was busy trying to reverse his car out from Max to try and continue, he was not trapped in the car etc etc that he was not in urgent medical need.
I've not checked the video but I'd imagine max walks past and hammy is spinning the wheels. Not the time for a chat.

If he'd been engulfed in flames or his head hanging downwards I suspect max would have reacted in the appropriate way
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#9

Post by Mawerick »

White six wrote: 2 years agoI've not checked the video but I'd imagine max walks past and hammy is spinning the wheels. Not the time for a chat.
Max said that he saw Lewis was trying to back out and figured he wouldn't be trying to do that if he weren't essentially okay. Which makes sense.
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#10

Post by White six »

Mawerick wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years agoI've not checked the video but I'd imagine max walks past and hammy is spinning the wheels. Not the time for a chat.
Max said that he saw Lewis was trying to back out and figured he wouldn't be trying to do that if he weren't essentially okay. Which makes sense.
In the good old days they'd have disqualified him for reversing on the race track :)
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#11

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

White six wrote: 2 years ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
I see the Hammy fans are up in alms on twitter about the fact that the medical car did not appear with all lights flashing to check Lewis was ok, with some pointed remarks as to the suitability of Alan VdM for purpose, and that he is negligent blah blah blah....

Alan VdM responded with something along the lines of it is not his decision to deploy himself.... that is the stewards job, and as far as the stewards were concerned as Lewis. was busy trying to reverse his car out from Max to try and continue, he was not trapped in the car etc etc that he was not in urgent medical need.
I've not checked the video but I'd imagine max walks past and hammy is spinning the wheels. Not the time for a chat.

If he'd been engulfed in flames or his head hanging downwards I suspect max would have reacted in the appropriate way
I suggest the Lewis fans might want to ask RoGro whether he feels that Alan VdM is not fit for purpose and is negligent.

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#12

Post by MonteCristo »

It's hard to hone your race craft when 98.74% of your racing involves complaining about blue flags to your engineer.
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#13

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

MonteCristo wrote: 2 years ago It's hard to hone your race craft when 98.74% of your racing involves complaining about blue flags to your engineer.
That only leaves 1.26% of his racing left to complain about how shot his tyres are,,,, not enough. :haha:

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#14

Post by DoubleFart »

XcraigX wrote: 2 years agoIt has nothing to do with Hamilton reacting too late between T1 and T2.
XcraigX wrote: 2 years agoIf anything he should have left less room at T1
You just argued against my point, then backed my point up. You'll get splinters in your ass if you keep sitting on the fence.

As for your comment that Lewis did the same as Max did on L1, he didn't. Max showed Lewis the grass much earlier - Lewis was never making the apex when he went around the outside of Max, whilst when Max went around Lewis, he drove OVER the apex.

Lewis was too slow to react to Max's attack, and should have been more agressive.
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#15

Post by erwin greven »

My criticism towards Max is, that he has a double standard towards not leaving room for others, while he expects to get room of the same ones.
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