Hamilton's Racecraft

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Ruslan
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#31

Post by Ruslan »

Bottom post of the previous page:

XcraigX wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
I think you meant beat three different champions as teammates? Because there were several drivers that just had different champs as teammates (and were beaten by them). Even then, the analogy falls flat because Lewis only tied Alonso in '07.

Which gives me an entirely different idea for a thread. How many drivers have beat a WDC team-mate over at least 1 season but never went on to win the WDC?
"Beat or tied" I guess.

But actually I didn't recall as I was writing that both Piquet and D. Hill had three world champions as teammates. Piquet did not tie or beat Lauda in 1979 (they were teammates for 14 races) and Piquet and Schumacher were only teammates for five races. D. Hill certainly did not tie or beat Prost or Senna and was only paired with Mansell for four races. He did beat Villeneuve in Villeneuve's rookie year in F1.

It still looks like Hamilton and Prost sort of have unique records.
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#32

Post by Kai-Star »

A lot of wild assessments here. I believe this is an attitude thing rather than anything to do with racecraft. If you believe you can win, if you believe you are the best, you won't compromise for others. This is why Max and Lewis will collide. This is why Nico Rosberg took this approach to win in '16. I can understand older drivers like Stewart coming out and saying what they do because they couldn't drive like that back then. Any collision back then had the risk of death.
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#33

Post by Andy »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
Andy wrote: 2 years ago He's never been top of any game but his advantage has been, dare I say, being the first black doing so.
Really?

1. So in Hamilton's 2007 rookie year when he tied his teammate two-time world champion Fernando Alonso in 2007, it was because he was black? At that time, many people considered Alonso the best driver in F1, maybe even better than Michael Schumacher.
2. So when he beat world champion Jenson Button more often than not during the three seasons they were teammates, it was because he was black?
3. So when he beat future world champion Nico Rosberg more often than not during the four season they were teammates, it was because he was black? Keep in mind that Nico Rosberg beat his previous teammate, Michael Schumacher, more often than not during the three seasons they were teammates.

I can think of only one other F1 driver that had three different F1 champions as teammates (Prost: Lauda, Senna and Mansell).
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#34

Post by Star »

According to Toto Wolff, Hamilton won't be yielding anymore when it comes to a corner he believes is his. He is going to fight for them so we can expect many more times when he and Max come together.

Full story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/58677987

Just a thought, have you seen Hamilton backing off so far? I can't say I have, if he had we wouldn't have had the incidents we already have this season surely!
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#35

Post by DoubleFart »

Even when it's been 80/20 in Max's favour, Hamilton still hasn't backed out, hence why I started this thread.
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#36

Post by White six »

Hammy is rattled, Max winning the mind war
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
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#37

Post by DoubleFart »

Maybe we should extend the thread beyond his racecraft.

Hitting the pitwall, and then being one of only two drivers to spin during Q3 on slicks.
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#38

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Maybe we should extend the thread beyond his racecraft.

Hitting the pitwall, and then being one of only two drivers to spin during Q3 on slicks.
And dont forget this little moment earlier in the weekend. Lewis forgot to press the 'magic button' it seems.



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#39

Post by DoubleFart »

That's twice he's made mistakes with brake magic then.

I guess for him growing up in the Ghetto of Stevenage with just 12 buttons on his Playstation steering wheel against Lando and Max with their 20+ programmable wheels with menu options is a disadvantage #Blessed #StillIRise
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#40

Post by PTRACER »

Even though I am not a Hamilton fan, I am not seeing the flaws you guys are seeing.

Both of his clashes in Barcelona and Austria were caused by Rosberg. Those times Max hasn't given him the space, Hamilton didn't crash into Max, he put himself off the track. Monza was an exception - that chicane is extremely tight and narrow and I still call it a racing incident.

The problem is that, unlike Senna and Schumacher, Hamilton never established himself as "a guy you should GTFO the way of if he puts his nose down the inside of you". So when he does pull off those kinds of moves, he ends up losing out.
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#41

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago Even though I am not a Hamilton fan, I am not seeing the flaws you guys are seeing.

Both of his clashes in Barcelona and Austria were caused by Rosberg. Those times Max hasn't given him the space, Hamilton didn't crash into Max, he put himself off the track. Monza was an exception - that chicane is extremely tight and narrow and I still call it a racing incident.

The problem is that, unlike Senna and Schumacher, Hamilton never established himself as "a guy you should GTFO the way of if he puts his nose down the inside of you". So when he does pull off those kinds of moves, he ends up losing out.
I see not so much flaws but certainly with the extra pressure on him this year, I have noticed more errors of judgement / mistakes.
Ithink he went into the gravel when he misjudged a back marker pass, ended in the gravel, hoofed it to get out and stuffed it into the barriers breaking the nose a bit.

Fortunately for him the red flags then came out for a separate incident (Bottas / Russell's get together?) Anyway that red saved his life, (well race anyway) allowing him to be repaired with new bits and new tyres while they were under red. He was a lap down by then, but of course allowed to unlap himself (with others I know) at the SC led restart. Of course the fanboys (in the stands and the press) said it was a classy recovery. What utter bollocks.... he was saved from being blue flagged and a lap down by another totally unrelated incident. Classy recovery? Yeah right. :wink:
I know he has been guilty of other similar errors that have not ended up having much impact. Even the Silverstone accident ISTR the telemetry showed that on the fateful lap he was faster than at any other time of the weekend, even his Q3 laps. On not fully warmed tyres. Of course his error then took Max out of the race and his what should have been race ending damage for Lewis was able to be repaired under the reds again, and we know how that day ended.

His errors just dont seem to get punished, and it is not because the errors are so minor to be insignificant. 2 this year that should have been DNFs but .... He is definitely making more errors now that he used to. Maybe because as I hinted, he is having to try 100% rather than 95% to keep Max at bay.

He does seem to be making more errors this year, maybe because he is being pressured by another team for once. As an aside I also believe he is losing in the mind game stakes with Max.

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#42

Post by DoubleFart »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years agoThose times Max hasn't given him the space, Hamilton didn't crash into Max, he put himself off the track.
Max didn't need to give him space - Lewis was quite frankly stupid for putting his car into those positions, but he didn't THINK about what he was doing.

Compare his judgement in those moments to how he was on the radio in the last 5 laps at Sochi - he's just having a conversation with Bono.

As I said before, if he'd run deep into T1 at Monza then Max would have never had the chance of going up the inside on T2. Yes, it was a racing incident, but Lewis fucked up.
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#43

Post by Ruslan »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago Both of his clashes in Barcelona and Austria were caused by Rosberg. Those times Max hasn't given him the space, Hamilton didn't crash into Max, he put himself off the track. Monza was an exception - that chicane is extremely tight and narrow and I still call it a racing incident.
Max is clearly a more "uncompromising" racer than Hamilton is, although I gather for the rest of the season they will both be fairly "uncompromising."
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