ReneLotus wrote: ↑1 year ago
I think a lot of that is due to losing some nuance trough translation (which the Verstappen site has provided). When you read it in Dutch, it is very mild compared to how it reads in English.
And it is not strange that the father of someone who is leading a tense championship can be a bit miffed that his son didn't win. As he said himself, he is not completely objective because it is about his son.
Like I said, I don't read much into it. Let's agree to disagree on this one
You feel motivated enough to give it a "milder" translation of it from Dutch? Because I read it only one way in English. Does Christian Horner read Dutch?
Ruslan wrote: ↑1 year ago
You feel motivated enough to give it a "milder" translation of it from Dutch? Because I read it only one way in English. Does Christian Horner read Dutch?
One phone call of Christian or Helmut is enough...
Brian Redman: "Mr. Fangio, how do you come so fast?" "More throttle, less brakes...."
Ruslan wrote: ↑1 year ago
You feel motivated enough to give it a "milder" translation of it from Dutch? Because I read it only one way in English. Does Christian Horner read Dutch?
One phone call of Christian or Helmut is enough...
Well, they both ended up having to make statements to the press. Horner's statement to Bloomberg was very interesting as it appears to have been carefully coached: "We are not talking about Sergio Perez Racing or Max Verstappen Racing here. It’s about Red Bull Racing. The drivers work for the team and bear this responsibility. It is important that they realise that the ambitions of the team are greater than their own.”
Ruslan wrote: ↑1 year ago
You feel motivated enough to give it a "milder" translation of it from Dutch? Because I read it only one way in English. Does Christian Horner read Dutch?
One phone call of Christian or Helmut is enough...
Well, they both ended up having to make statements to the press. Horner's statement to Bloomberg was very interesting as it appears to have been carefully coached: "We are not talking about Sergio Perez Racing or Max Verstappen Racing here. It’s about Red Bull Racing. The drivers work for the team and bear this responsibility. It is important that they realise that the ambitions of the team are greater than their own.”
I find that last sentence to be very interesting.
Also as mentioned previously, comments by Horner in relation to the events on Sunday and the strategy that evolved
Horner insisted the team doesn't care about which of its drivers scoops the title.
"It doesn't matter to us which of the two is world champion," he said. "Of course, the constructors' is enormously important.
"But whether it's Max or Checo, they're both Red Bull drivers, and they've both got the same chance.
* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left
“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)
* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
EDIT: I posted this before I saw the other replies by Ruslan and Ballies.
I don't think Horner even bothers with such stories since he says quite a few ill-chosen things himself. I have no idea if he knows how to read Dutch, but I wouldn't think so. And if he or Marko is upset about it, Jos will be in the doghouse for a while.
In the Dutch version it seems the frustration that was used by ESPN to come to the conclusion of 'blasting the team' stems from small things adding up. For example the lack of grip in the wet from these cars, the delayed start, this being a tight season and so on.
The main difference between the Dutch and English versions is in the bit about the result of the strategy.
The translation uses the words 'exerted' and 'it turned completely to Checo's favour' which sounds harsher than the Dutch words used in that section.
That's the nuance I was referring to.
I'm not a native English speaker, so if I translate stuff into English I can very easily think 'great job, looks perfect'. But it is easy to lose some of the more subtle meanings of words. The English version on the website looks like it was translated by a non-native English speaker. I would have formulated it differently, but as I said, I'm not a native English speaker. 'The chosen strategy played out better in the end for Checo' would most likely be my chosen phrase. The 'ten points' could also be referring to Verstappen not finishing ahead of Sainz and thus putting more points between him and Leclerc, rather than being a dig at Perez, but that is pure speculation on my part.
Still, if this piece is supposed to be evidence of 'slamming' the team and a 'team war' I would expect to see more toys being thrown out of the pram and harsher things being said, such as 'It is ridiculous the team is not favouring driver A, it was a farcical move by the team, incomprehensible choice'. He criticises the team, yes. But slamming the team, no. To me, Perez sounded harsher on the radio in Spain.
Perez was disappointed in Spain, Verstappen is disappointed in Monaco.
This looks like a piece written by someone who is not directly involved with the team being disappointed with the result of his son and needing more time to digest the full set of circumstances before making judgments. And besides, the drivers have a say in strategy as well, so perhaps he is miffed that Max and his engineer didn't come up with a different plan and tries to deflect some of that blame.
Also, I haven't seen this story on other F1 sites, so I guess most people regard it as not important.
The fact that ESPN failed to use the correct address for the link to the Verstappen website also makes me think this is a bit of a cheap dig to garner attention to their site or stir up things. If I enter maxverstappen.com I go to a website about a puppeteer who happens to have the same name as the F1 driver.
@ReneLotus If this is a one-of incident then it is no big deal. Just a little poor and cross communication and the team moves on. On the other, knowing Jos’ history and public persona, and how that persona is transferred onto Max, my suspicion is this is not the last such discussion we will see this season. We will have to wait and see how this plays out over the season.
MonteCristo wrote: ↑1 year ago
There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.
True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.
MonteCristo wrote: ↑1 year ago
There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.
True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.
I don't think Max is there yet, but who knows?
Well they don't have a viable alternative in RBR or STR, so they won't dump him, and can't bring a new face in to challenge him in the near term (at least, I don't see an alternative wunderkind making the rounds).
But Jos is a bit of a tosser, and Max has always seemed to be cut from the same cloth. So if a better offer comes around, who knows what the future holds.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.
MonteCristo wrote: ↑1 year ago
There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.
True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.
I don't think Max is there yet, but who knows?
Well they don't have a viable alternative in RBR or STR, so they won't dump him, and can't bring a new face in to challenge him in the near term (at least, I don't see an alternative wunderkind making the rounds).
But Jos is a bit of a tosser, and Max has always seemed to be cut from the same cloth. So if a better offer comes around, who knows what the future holds.
Oh you're right about Jos and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so I suspect Max is very similar in a lot of ways. Having seen the way he reacts at times and how kicks his car if it lets him down, it's a fair guess that he is.
MonteCristo wrote: ↑1 year ago
There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.
True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.
I don't think Max is there yet, but who knows?
Well they don't have a viable alternative in RBR or STR, so they won't dump him, and can't bring a new face in to challenge him in the near term (at least, I don't see an alternative wunderkind making the rounds).
But Jos is a bit of a tosser, and Max has always seemed to be cut from the same cloth. So if a better offer comes around, who knows what the future holds.
Oh you're right about Jos and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so I suspect Max is very similar in a lot of ways. Having seen the way he reacts at times and how kicks his car if it lets him down, it's a fair guess that he is.
I remember Max getting in trouble after a bit of post race pushing and shoving after a contact with Ocon in Brazil pre Covid days. (2018?) I think he ended up having to either do a day helping marshals at an event or a day at an event with the stewards.. Something like that as a punishment.
* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left
“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)
* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
MonteCristo wrote: ↑1 year ago
There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.
True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.
I don't think Max is there yet, but who knows?
Well they don't have a viable alternative in RBR or STR, so they won't dump him, and can't bring a new face in to challenge him in the near term (at least, I don't see an alternative wunderkind making the rounds).
But Jos is a bit of a tosser, and Max has always seemed to be cut from the same cloth. So if a better offer comes around, who knows what the future holds.
Oh you're right about Jos and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so I suspect Max is very similar in a lot of ways. Having seen the way he reacts at times and how kicks his car if it lets him down, it's a fair guess that he is.
I remember Max getting in trouble after a bit of post race pushing and shoving after a contact with Ocon in Brazil pre Covid days. (2018?) I think he ended up having to either do a day helping marshals at an event or a day at an event with the stewards.. Something like that as a punishment.
They made him go clothes shopping with Lewis
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
MonteCristo wrote: ↑1 year ago
There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.
True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.
I don't think Max is there yet, but who knows?
Well they don't have a viable alternative in RBR or STR, so they won't dump him, and can't bring a new face in to challenge him in the near term (at least, I don't see an alternative wunderkind making the rounds).
But Jos is a bit of a tosser, and Max has always seemed to be cut from the same cloth. So if a better offer comes around, who knows what the future holds.
Oh you're right about Jos and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so I suspect Max is very similar in a lot of ways. Having seen the way he reacts at times and how kicks his car if it lets him down, it's a fair guess that he is.
I remember Max getting in trouble after a bit of post race pushing and shoving after a contact with Ocon in Brazil pre Covid days. (2018?) I think he ended up having to either do a day helping marshals at an event or a day at an event with the stewards.. Something like that as a punishment.
They made him go clothes shopping with Lewis
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.