The Max Verstappen Thread

[MonteCristo]

Bottom post of the previous page:

There was a time when no one would have thought that Vettel would ever leave RBR.

True, but then they brought in Daniel Ricciardo and built the car for 2014 around his driving style and made it pretty clear he was their future. Much as Ferrari did with Charles Leclerc a few years later. It's what happens a lot in F1, you are only the favourite for so long, then the teams/fans get bored of the same person winning over and over, they want someone new and exciting it seems. RBR are more interested in selling drinks than F1 in some ways I always think, they appear to consider more how effective their marketing is, if their feedback suggests people are no longer finding their number 1 driver interesting, they move on to someone else that is new and exciting. That's how I see it anyway.

I don't think Max is there yet, but who knows?

Well they don't have a viable alternative in RBR or STR, so they won't dump him, and can't bring a new face in to challenge him in the near term (at least, I don't see an alternative wunderkind making the rounds).

But Jos is a bit of a tosser, and Max has always seemed to be cut from the same cloth. So if a better offer comes around, who knows what the future holds.

Oh you're right about Jos and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so I suspect Max is very similar in a lot of ways. Having seen the way he reacts at times and how kicks his car if it lets him down, it's a fair guess that he is.

I remember Max getting in trouble after a bit of post race pushing and shoving after a contact with Ocon in Brazil pre Covid days. (2018?) I think he ended up having to either do a day helping marshals at an event or a day at an event with the stewards.. Something like that as a punishment.

They made him go clothes shopping with Lewis

[Star]

You're right @Everso Biggyballies he did shove Ocon that time. Then again, lots of drivers have done things like that, it's even got way more physical in the old days. I suppose we forget that now they're all so well behaved in comparison. I know tempers flare and people get hot headed in the heat of such intense competition but I do think some drivers are more inclined to do that kind of thing than others.

I remember Kimi giving a photographer a shove and knocking him over at one time, that was a long time ago though.

[Ruslan]

Actually, that would be an interesting list to make... lists of F1 driver who hit their opponent. Off the top of my head:

Piquet vs Eleo Salazer
Senna vs Eddie Irvine
Patrese vs Berger (serious brake test on a straight).
Schumacher vs Villeneuve (deliberately turned into him). Some say the same was the case with Damon Hill in 1994.
Kimi Räikkönen vs reporter and a year or two earlier shoving a guy standing near a stair out of the way.
Vettel vs Hamilton (deliberately slamming into him on the track).
Verstappen vs Ocon

I am sure there is a lot more.

[erwin greven]

Hunt vs marshal (several occasions)
Alonso vs Couthard (twice)

And in the older days, Farina, Reggazoni and Brabham weren't that nice either.

[Star]

There was that incident in Spa in 1998 or 1999 I'm not sure, where Schumacher went after Coulthard in the pit lane, no fists were thrown but I think DC would have given him a 'Glasgow kiss' (head butted him) if he'd tried it.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Actually, that would be an interesting list to make... lists of F1 driver who hit their opponent. Off the top of my head:

Piquet vs Eleo Salazer
Senna vs Eddie Irvine
Patrese vs Berger (serious brake test on a straight).
Schumacher vs Villeneuve (deliberately turned into him). Some say the same was the case with Damon Hill in 1994.
Kimi Räikkönen vs reporter and a year or two earlier shoving a guy standing near a stair out of the way.
Vettel vs Hamilton (deliberately slamming into him on the track).
Verstappen vs Ocon

I am sure there is a lot more.

Well there was Schumacher and Coulthard at Spa 1998 after, in the wet, an about to be lapped DC moved over to allow Schu easy passage.... but turned across an unsighted in the spray Schu, leaving the Ferrari with an amputated corner and a three wheeled tour back to the pits where he immediately minced down to the McLaren pit waving his arms around before being bundled out by both his Ferrari and McLaren onlookers/minders. Michael accused DC of trying to kill him etc. Had a punch up evolved DC would have absolutely made a mess of Schu. DC Jaws v the Chin!

Click the watch on youtube button to watch.



Also Trulli and Sutil at Brazil 2009




It spilled over into the press conferences later and indeed the next race.




Im sure there are more. Im sure back in the days before the spotlights the likes of Innes Ireland might have had a few 'contretemps.

Of course James Hunt had a few skirmishes, not always with drivers. I remember (as does @erwin greven who mentioned his 'marshall moments', James has decked more than one marshal who tried to be officious after incidents.

I also remember Hunt back in his F3 days having a fight on track at Crystal Palace with David Morgan, when the two clashed and crashed out on the run to the finish line / chequered flag. Hunt jumped out of his canoe (it had no wheels left IIRC) and ran across the track in front of cars still racing to the line and punched Morgan to the ground.

Edit: I have found the video of that. Its actually the full race, Murray Walker on comms. 'The incident' is at about 13:30 in.
Im pretty sure that despite getting decked by Hunt Morgan ended up getting in trouble with the RAC, charged with reckless driving and had his competition licence suspende for many months (maybe 12?). Morgan certainly did not race again 1n 1970. He did Formula Atlantic F2 and a cameo one-off at the 1975 British GP.. I notice he passed away a couple of years ago, so RIP Dave Morgan.



OK on a roll here. James Huntat Canada '77 after clashing I think with teamate Mass didnt like the marshal who was trying to get James (who was more interested in waiting for Mass next next time round from trackside) to go behind the barriers.



James again at Monaco after Depailler took him out. Again keen to remonstrate to Depailler who continued, next time round. The marshal equally keen to clear the track.

[White six]

Hill Schumacher was far more like hammy Vs max at Monza. Hill sucked into a lunge by the mistake. Was always racing incident for me. Never run on a misfield as they say in cricket

I was gutted at the time, but piquet/Salazar is hilarious. Salazar was doing everything he could to help his friend, gave him the racing line so he didn't lose a tenth and then just missed his braking point. Nelson was highly agitated from seeing pironi's mashed up legs the day before

[MonteCristo]

Hill Schumacher was far more like hammy Vs max at Monza. Hill sucked into a lunge by the mistake. Was always racing incident for me. Never run on a misfield as they say in cricket

It's on Schumacher.

You can see from the rear-wing onboard camera that Chin was chopping at the wheel. The steering was not tracking straight at all.

The moment he tried to drive on he would have instantly known that he had to retire the car (or spend 20 minutes in the pits). He should have gone off the racing line. That was a dead parrot.

Maaaaaaaaaybe you could give Chin the benefit of the doubt if he didn't then do the same thing and drive into Villeneuve three years later under the same scenario (although an even less desperate situation). But he did.

[White six]

Hill Schumacher was far more like hammy Vs max at Monza. Hill sucked into a lunge by the mistake. Was always racing incident for me. Never run on a misfield as they say in cricket

It's on Schumacher.

You can see from the rear-wing onboard camera that Chin was chopping at the wheel. The steering was not tracking straight at all.

The moment he tried to drive on he would have instantly known that he had to retire the car (or spend 20 minutes in the pits). He should have gone off the racing line. That was a dead parrot.

Maaaaaaaaaybe you could give Chin the benefit of the doubt if he didn't then do the same thing and drive into Villeneuve three years later under the same scenario (although an even less desperate situation). But he did.

He hadn't done the Villeneuve thing at the time

Hill dives out from behind him pretty late, and I'm sure has always regretted that move. Schumacher was ahead and decided to assert himself into the corner. Whether the steering was fecked or not Schumacher did manage to hook it up for the corner. It's a risk you take when trying to fight a wounded animal

[Star]

I'm afraid I have to say I agree, Schumacher was to blame in Adelaide and Jerez against Hill and Villenueve respectively. I remember watching Adelaide live and my ex husband yelling about it a lot, he was a Hill fan you see.

[MonteCristo]

Hill Schumacher was far more like hammy Vs max at Monza. Hill sucked into a lunge by the mistake. Was always racing incident for me. Never run on a misfield as they say in cricket

It's on Schumacher.

You can see from the rear-wing onboard camera that Chin was chopping at the wheel. The steering was not tracking straight at all.

The moment he tried to drive on he would have instantly known that he had to retire the car (or spend 20 minutes in the pits). He should have gone off the racing line. That was a dead parrot.

Maaaaaaaaaybe you could give Chin the benefit of the doubt if he didn't then do the same thing and drive into Villeneuve three years later under the same scenario (although an even less desperate situation). But he did.

He hadn't done the Villeneuve thing at the time

Hill dives out from behind him pretty late, and I'm sure has always regretted that move. Schumacher was ahead and decided to assert himself into the corner. Whether the steering was fecked or not Schumacher did manage to hook it up for the corner. It's a risk you take when trying to fight a wounded animal

What's the difference between a murderer and a serial killer?

Time and repeated murders.

[White six]

Hill Schumacher was far more like hammy Vs max at Monza. Hill sucked into a lunge by the mistake. Was always racing incident for me. Never run on a misfield as they say in cricket

It's on Schumacher.

You can see from the rear-wing onboard camera that Chin was chopping at the wheel. The steering was not tracking straight at all.

The moment he tried to drive on he would have instantly known that he had to retire the car (or spend 20 minutes in the pits). He should have gone off the racing line. That was a dead parrot.

Maaaaaaaaaybe you could give Chin the benefit of the doubt if he didn't then do the same thing and drive into Villeneuve three years later under the same scenario (although an even less desperate situation). But he did.

He hadn't done the Villeneuve thing at the time

Hill dives out from behind him pretty late, and I'm sure has always regretted that move. Schumacher was ahead and decided to assert himself into the corner. Whether the steering was fecked or not Schumacher did manage to hook it up for the corner. It's a risk you take when trying to fight a wounded animal

What's the difference between a murderer and a serial killer?

Time and repeated murders.

I think he thought well everyone thinks I'm evil now, so I may as well be evil.

[Michael Ferner]

No, he thought: "See, I CAN walk on water!"

[erwin greven]

Max Verstappen's secret driving style - F1 analysis by Peter Windsor

[Aty]

What Windsor is noticing, that it is a driver in a very good car which makes all the difference on the race outcome. It is more sophisticated observation over such simpleton claims as "RB is the fastest car", implying that's a (main) reason why Max is at the top. In reality, it is both. Always was. I am really not able (for obvious reasons) to put any numbers on ratio Max% + Car% = Win (100%). It was also similar case with Vettel, as Horner once explained looking at his data how Seb was managing corners. His technique suffered a blow in 2014.
With Hamilton it's a mix bag, since his skills were diluted by massively superior equipment. He was good, but how good only he and his men know looking at his (private) data. Meanwhile Max is riding high, and for good reasons.

[Everso Biggyballies]

To say the Red Bull is not currently the dominant car (by a margin) is wrong. It is by far the quickest car. That is not to detract from Max's performance. He is more than capable of extracting the very maximum from the car should he need to. He rarely needs to use the full capacity of the car. We all agree that Sergio, whilst a competent driver is not a Verstappen. He is not a level 1 driver. For him to be able to start a race in 15th spot andf be in a podium position little after mid race as Sergio did last race in Austria, suggests that the car is a key part of the success of Red Bull in this year's WDC. That Perez can underperform as he has more than once, and still be nearly a race ahead off the best performing non Red Bull driver only reinforces the fact that Red Bull is a dominant car this year, perhaps as much as or moreso than Hamilton has had in the past at Mercedes.

Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen, like Schumacher and others before, all were top drivers more than capable of maximising the strengths of their cars and indeed teams. The best drivers traditionally get to drive the best cars for the best teams.. Cream rises to the top.