The 2021 Deja-vu Austrian GP from Styria.

[Star]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Okay, so I've just finished watching the race. Perez felt annoyed about that first lap incident with Norris and yet I don't actually thing Norris was in the wrong to be fair. Perez however was totally in the wrong when he shoved Leclerc off the track, not just once, but twice. What was he thinking? Was he even thinking at all?

Great drive by Lando Norris, he really is a good driver, even Lewis Hamilton said so and that did surprise me. Lando totally deserved his podium, as Max deserved the win. He never put a foot wrong and did what he needed to.

That incident at the end of the race, what was Kimi doing? He took out Vettel when he was clearly virtually by him and that was a real shame as far as I'm concerned. I like Kimi but to me that looked like brain fade or something. Silly Kimi!!

Those are my views anyhow for what they're worth.

[White six]

So staying on the racing line while someone makes an ill advised move around the outside is now a penalty?

Ok

Just assuming the outside car doesn't decide to take the inside car's shit and holds its line...

They crash.

So how would that not be the inside car's fault?

That's motor racing! Car width rules don't necessarily apply on corner exits. Nothing wrong with Norris and Perez 2 imo. That's the risk you take making a dangerous move round the outside

Perez 1 looked more dodgy, I'd have to see it again

Think of it this way, if there was Armco there they wouldn't contemplate such moves for a second!

[White six]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motors ... 25913/amp/

Photo here that shows even on Perez 1 leclerc was only level.

There's no regulation to say that the driver on the inside should leave a car width here, principally because dramatic steering on exit could easily cause a spin and then you'd lose both cars.

[Circuitmaster]

I don't think people gave Alonso as much respect as he deserved back then. Kimi coulda/shoulda won the 2005 title, and Schumi was an engine failure and puncture away from 2006. He looked lucky.

The famous "what if's". What if Massa had a good pitstop in Singapore 2008. He would had had a points finish. By how many points did Hamilton win his first title?

1 point.

Whilst on the subject of Singapore 08, what if crash gate hadn't happened? That also had huge championship impact if I recall correctly.

[Everso Biggyballies]

I dont fully agree with some of the views on the squeezing decisions we saw. I thought the Lando decision a bit tough.... Sergio was trying to make a pass round the outside at a corner where it is not really on. Even Horner said Lando should not have been penalised for what happened.

Sergio's first penalty was I think more deserved but the second one was I think a bit more contrived.... it looked almost that Leclerc set the move up with the intention of looking to get the pass via a 5 sec hit to Sergio rather than actually get an overtake done. Get Sergio a penalty and then sit on his gearbox knowing he would inherit the place without overtaking.. A bit like taking a dive in football, or manufacturing an obstruction in field hockey by positioning yourself where your opposition cannot help but obstruct you.

I hate the thought that everything gets the attention of the stewards. Dangerous stuff yes, but 'racing' stuff no.

[Star]

I now see Kimi got a penalty and points on his license for the coming together with Vettel.

There were a lot of penalties in that race, some justified and some not in my view. You shouldn't penalise every move that is a bit of a bold attempt, but by the same token you can't allow the drivers to break the rules either. It's a fine line the stewards have to walk and no matter what they do there will aloways be those who agree and those who don't. That's what we all end up discussing on places like this after all.

[PTRACER]

So staying on the racing line while someone makes an ill advised move around the outside is now a penalty?

Ok

Leave a cars width if alongside. Penalty all day.

I swear that is what drivers used to do...Doing anything else usually came with a much heavier penalty than +5s.

[SBan83]

So staying on the racing line while someone makes an ill advised move around the outside is now a penalty?

Ok

Just assuming the outside car doesn't decide to take the inside car's shit and holds its line...

They crash.

So how would that not be the inside car's fault?

That's motor racing! Car width rules don't necessarily apply on corner exits. Nothing wrong with Norris and Perez 2 imo. That's the risk you take making a dangerous move round the outside.

You're clearly next to someone and they drive you OFF the track, then they should be penalized, as Norris was. I've long struggled to understand this logic of cheering on someone driving someone off the track just because the victim "dared" to go around the outside and it's the "risk he took". Why is it even accepted as a risk when the driver on the inside drives someone off the track? He should be aware of who's around him and attempt to outrace him instead of force him off track. Why not blame the guy driving his rival off the track? Forcing someone off the track isn't hard racing but the opposite, it's a chickenshit move that should be penalized hard.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Apparently Lando's penalty points from the weekend take his tally up to 10 now.... they are allowed 12 in a rolling 12 month period after which it is a 1 race ban. Fortunately for Lando he will lose 2 of those points at the British GP, but he is sailing close to the wind. None of them have been for anything that could be classed as dangerous.

With them hurling penalties around like confetti how long will it be before we see someone banned?

[Ruslan]

Interesting race. The Red Bulls looked faster this race compared to last week.

1. Verstappen: Another solid race. I really did like his final lap in qualifying last week. Didn't do anything this weekend to get me excited.

2. Bottas: What a weird set of team orders. Clearly they needed to let Bottas through immediately to put pressure on Verstappen. Furthermore, it is only 9 races into the season, why are they giving team orders now? It is embarrassing. Toto Wolff needs to reconsider this for next year, especially if they have George Russell driving for them.

3. Norris: Love Lando. It was a truly great drive on his part, including his multi-corner fight with Perez. I would not have penalized for the attempted Perez pass, but I understand the argument in favor of that. Lando is doing so well now that I have to wonder if he has managed to up his game. Last season he was as good as Sainz. Is he a notably better driver this season?

4. Hamilton: Would have placed second if he did not damage his car. I don't know if it was damage he did while doing what every else was doing, or if it was damage that can be traced to a specific unusual corner cutting or off-track incident. Freak event or driver error?

5. Sainz: Good drive, but the Ferrari's really don't look like they have the pace of McLaren.

6. Perez: Actually an awful race for what is usually a very consistent driver. I would not have penalized Norris over the first incident, I certainly would have penalized Perez for his two incidents. He seems out of sorts, he is usually a very clean passer.

7. Ricciardo: Still mystified by his lack of form. He looked better on race day, but certainly not great.

8. LeClerc: He actually did not have a great race either. Didn't help that he was repeatedly bumped by Perez.

9. Gasly: Not a great result but I think he has been getting a lot out of the car race after race.

10. Alonso: He looked a lot like the Alonso of old.

11. Russell: Can't wait to see him back in the real car.

12. Tsunoda: Always entertaining. Showed some real speed this weekend. Potentially a great driver who I am certain is not going to get along with Helmut Marko.

The Season:

1. If Mercedes does not close that gap at Silverstone, then I think this season is over.

2. Is the Red Bull advantage a result of:
a. Superior engine?
b. Superior aerodynamics?
c. Poor management at Mercedes for not properly developing the car early in the season and now they are playing catch-up?
d. The budget cap, in that Mercedes was already too focused on 2022 and because of the budget cap, had to make a trade-off that caught them out? This is the first time I recall Mercedes being beat in the "development battle"... but, this was also the first time they did not have unlimited budget.
e. The Ross Brawn aero changes, in that the changes favored Red Bull's high rake design?
f. Verstappen is faster than Hamilton?

[Ruslan]

Apparently Lando's penalty points from the weekend take his tally up to 10 now.... they are allowed 12 in a rolling 12 month period after which it is a 1 race ban. Fortunately for Lando he will lose 2 of those points at the British GP, but he is sailing close to the wind. None of them have been for anything that could be classed as dangerous.

With them hurling penalties around like confetti how long will it be before we see someone banned?

Yea, I don't know how he managed to pile up 10 points. He is a hard racer, but I don't recall anything outrageous or particularly stupid.

[MonteCristo]

So staying on the racing line while someone makes an ill advised move around the outside is now a penalty?

Ok

Just assuming the outside car doesn't decide to take the inside car's shit and holds its line...

They crash.

So how would that not be the inside car's fault?

That's motor racing! Car width rules don't necessarily apply on corner exits. Nothing wrong with Norris and Perez 2 imo. That's the risk you take making a dangerous move round the outside

Perez 1 looked more dodgy, I'd have to see it again

Think of it this way, if there was Armco there they wouldn't contemplate such moves for a second!

If it was a corner exit that warranted cars getting sucked to the outside of the track through momentum, there would be curbing there. The drivers each time yesterday were not taking a specific racing line. They were just elbowing a competitor off the road.

F1 should advocate for more passing, not less.

[Circuitmaster]

Just a lingering thought, not necessarily replying to any specific post and I'm not sure if this has already been said but:

If we start to blame drivers for making bold moves, they'll stop making bold moves.

I don't know exactly what the rules are, I must admit.. but I feel if I was being passed around the outside I should give that guy a car's width if he's anywhere close to alongside me. And if that means putting my foot down slightly later, well then that just means his attempt at passing me wasn't necessarily so foolhardy in the first place.

I know that it'll always be hard to judge where 'alongside' begins and ends. Unless you wanna start putting sensors in the cars and drawing lines on the side-pods, I think we'll have to continue to leave it up to the judgement of the stewards.

[MonteCristo]

Just a lingering thought, not necessarily replying to any specific post and I'm not sure if this has already been said but:

If we start to blame drivers for making bold moves, they'll stop making bold moves.

I don't know exactly what the rules are, I must admit.. but I feel if I was being passed around the outside I should give that guy a car's width if he's anywhere close to alongside me. And if that means putting my foot down slightly later, well then that just means his attempt at passing me wasn't necessarily so foolhardy in the first place.

I know that it'll always be hard to judge where 'alongside' begins and ends. Unless you wanna start putting sensors in the cars and drawing lines on the side-pods, I think we'll have to continue to leave it up to the judgement of the stewards.

Croft and Di Resta were railing against the penalty.

"We want hard racing!" they cried.

But if a car's width had been left and the car got past (or simply raced alongside until the next corner and didn't even complete the pass), they'd be the first to proclaim what wonderful racing there is.

[Ruslan]

This seems vaguely related to the Austrian Grand Prix: https://news.yahoo.com/man-bitten-neigh ... 29503.html

Title of article is: Man bitten by neighbor's escaped python in toilet in Austria.

[Kai-Star]

Remember, what was it, about 10 years ago when all the penalties were investigated after the race and the judgement was passed onto the next race? That sucked a lot more than this. I've mostly been happy with how penalties have gone the past few years. Racing incidents have been just that, racing incidents. While there has been an outcry over these turn 4 dilemmas, at the end of the day, the penalties dished out hardly affected the race. Maybe Perez is the most unlucky, but then he also did the same later, twice.