Big meeting regarding engines this weekend feat. Porsche and Audi

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Big meeting regarding engines this weekend feat. Porsche and Audi

#1

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#2

Post by XcraigX »

Porsche and Audi?
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#3

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There are some massive names there. Getting a few hours of their time is serious business.

Are we set for a repeat of 2011, where we agreed V6 hybrid, Porsche built an engine, then decided not for them and left it in storage?
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#4

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

OK well the big engine meeting happened as threatened, but what happened and who said what?

We know an outline concept of what F1 should look at was discussed. It will be many months until all the nuts and bolts are done up but Toto has given a few clues as to what came out of the meeting. It might not all be good, but here goes on what he said. Dont expect any loud proper engines. I dont think any of us thought that might happen regardless of how much we miss them.

All the talk of driving costs down and enticing new engine people in has been blown to the weeds. More (much more apparently) focus on hybrid to me says more expensive and playing into the current manufacturers hands.

Wolff says that F1 is doing the right thing in sticking with turbo hybrid power units that run on fully sustainable fuel.

So the headline that comes out of it is..... and given it was manufacturers involved to all intents and purposes (other that Red Bull who have made no secret of their wish to tie in with a manufacturer rather than develop their own alone

New 2025 F1 engines set for 'massively increased' electric component
Speaking at the FIA Conference in Monaco on Monday, Wolff said that there was consensus that F1 could not go back to loud combustion engines.

“The discussion was ‘what are we doing in the future in terms of engine’, because we want to save costs, so we don't want to reinvent the wheel,” he said.

“But we also want to have an engine that is relevant from 2025 to 2030, and we can't be old petrol heads with screaming engines when everybody expects us to be going electric.

“So these engines are still going to be fuelled. We are staying with the current V6 format, but the electric component is going to massively increase.”

F1's current power units feature both an MGU-K and an MGU-H, but there have suggestions the series may abandon the MGU-H because of its cost and complexity. That would then open the door for a more powerful kinetic component to be used.

One of the core components of the new hybrid generation of engines will be running on sustainable fuels, which car manufacturers believe will be hugely important with cars continuing to use combustion engines for many years to come.

Wolff added: “Why we are staying with the internal combustion engine is that we believe that the fuel is going to be with us for a long time.

“In Europe we may have the ambitious targets of having electrical mobility as part of our daily life by 2030, and I can see at Mercedes how ambitious the targets are, but in the rest of the world, we will have millions of vehicles that would still run on fuel.

“For Mercedes cars itself, we believe that we will have more than two million vehicles in the world that will still run on fuels. So what we can contribute with our innovation is to help them to develop sustainable fuels: be it biofuels or be it synthetic fuels.

“Our cars will run on 100 percent sustainable fuels by 2025, and this is how we will contribute to the reduction to the world's CO2 emissions.”

Wolff said there was growing evidence that F1’s innovation in finding sustainable solutions and driving the technology forward was attractive to the younger generation of fans.

“If you look at F1 today and large audiences that follow us, especially the younger audiences, our strongest growing group is the 15 to 35-years-old,” he said.

“I was in Austria this last weekend, it wasn't so great on the track, but it was impressive to see a full house. We had 115,000 spectators. And what I've seen is a younger audience like never before in Formula 1.

“And I believe for these younger audiences, Formula 1, and we made a survey, stands for innovation and high tech. We may be going a little bit away from gladiators.

“But the kids in the younger generation see it as flying fighter jets around the race track, so we must never forget that high tech innovation is part of our DNA.”
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/new-2 ... 3856999179

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#5

Post by DoubleFart »

I'd be quite content with a 700bhp 1.6l V6, and a 300-400bhp electrical component that's available at all times. Not difficult.
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#6

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For some reason, Facebook has been recommending me Tesla videos for the past few weeks and in every single one of them, the owner complains about how shit it is to own an electric vehicle.

I know they are the future but there's nothing impressive about a 200mph RC car.
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#7

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You're being targeted by the oil industry then. I don't know a single EV owner who would change back to ICE, and the last survey I saw said 97% of people will not go back.

When I say I don't knw a single EV owner who wants to go back, I have been working with cars and particularly EVs and their owners for 7 years....
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#8

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Does this belong here?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/busi ... la-1-entry
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#9

Post by DoubleFart »

I'd be gutted to lose McLaren.
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#10

Post by PTRACER »

Me too. If they want to buy Haas or Alpha Tauri or Alfa Romeo instead that would be great.
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#11

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I don’t think those names would be of interest to VAG. I think primarily their interest would be the automotive division given their habit of collecting Supercar brands ie Bugatti Lamborghini etc. The fact by buying the Group they would also cover their potential wish to have an F1 entry is a bonus for them. If it were to happen then there is every chance they would retain the McLaren team name to use that history to enhance the McLaren brand. Any engine they use could be branded Porsche or whatever for the value of F1 involvement to that brand. A sort of double whammy effect.
The team that must be worried by this runout would be Red Bull who have via their new Powertrain engine division had indicated a tie up with Porsche/ VAG would be ideal and give them a works engine deal as they had with Honda. With the VAG tie up with McLaren if it was to happen surely that opportunity would evaporate, certainly as a works deal, and best chance with a VAG tie up would be just as a customer.
That would be my thoughts at this stage. I’m posting from my phone so hopefully it makes sense

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#12

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Following on from these meetings and so on it seems something is in the air........


Audi tells FIA it intends to confirm F1 entry early next year

I know recently we had a rumour of Audi buying McLaren which most of us pooh pooed at the time because of recent structural changes made it all too strange.

I guess this means they are talking joining F1 as an engine supplier as opposed to an actual team per se at this stage.

Well, although not an actual confirmation that they are 100 going to join F1 Audi have 'indicated they are heading that way, a sort of confirmation I guess that they like what they see. Audi board chairman Markus Duesmann and Audi Technical Development board member Oliver Hoffmann indicated they are satisfied with the progress the FIA has made with new technical regulations for the 2026 power units. The management board and supervisory board of Audi will now decide whether to formally approve its entry into the championship.

They have sent a letter to the FIA (outgoing President Todt) and F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali saying they believe the draft regulations offer a fair compromise for newcomers and existing competitors, as well as meeting the objectives agreed for the new power units. (F1/FIA confirmed the 2026 power units will retain the existing 1.6-litre V6 engines and increase the amount of electrical energy they can generate, while doing away with the expensive MGU-H. Power unit costs will also be capped for the first time.)

Apparently the letter had a dig at Mercedes..... they congratulated Todt on what it regarded as a fair conclusion to this year’s Formula 1 championship. They referred specifically to the final lap, on which Max Verstappen passed Lewis Hamilton to clinch the title following a controversial restart. :haha:

Thinks.... does this hint at an association of some sorts with Red Bull on making engines. Red Bull have always indicated they would prefer for the new engines to have a manufacturer involved and that the use of the Honda engine was only a short term thing to get them through the next few years..

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/20/aud ... next-year/

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#13

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Red Bull and Volkswagen group have strong ties. I fully expect it to be a tie up between the two if it happens at all. If.
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#14

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago Following on from these meetings and so on it seems something is in the air........


Audi tells FIA it intends to confirm F1 entry early next year

<Snip>
Full post up the page
DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Red Bull and Volkswagen group have strong ties. I fully expect it to be a tie up between the two if it happens at all. If.



Autocar have written of discussions with both McLaren and Red BUll. It seems things are hotting up and certainly Red Bull as we picked are in there, but maybe also McLaren as well ...... with potential VAG stakes in either or both teams.
According to Autocar, there are ongoing discussions between Audi and McLaren, Audi and Red Bull surrounding the prospect of a partnership, potentially with equity stakes in each respective race team. Whether VW intends to double down and enter Porsche in tandem is another question mark. All we know is that any scenario will require considerable time. The earliest you’ll see those four iconic rings on an F1 livery – or the unmistakable horse crest – will be 2026 (when the incoming regulations are implemented).

Volkswagen Group Audi F1 Porsche F1 Formula 1
Previously, several parties – present company included – believed Porsche was the frontrunner to represent Volkswagen Group in Formula 1, not Audi. Insiders revealed Porsche was extremely interested in a full-package deal – but the door has been left wide open for an entry via alternative avenues.

As many of you may be aware, as of the most recent season’s conclusion, Honda has formally exited from F1. And while Red Bull has acquired the intellectual property and all those precious technical blueprints from Honda, it wouldn’t hurt to find another experienced engine manufacturer to maintain an edge over Mercedes. Plus there’s no reason why other teams like past collaborator McLaren wouldn’t be interested in a Porsche power unit, either.

“Partnering with Red Bull appears to be the most obvious route to F1 glory. And the flames of paddock gossip has only been fanned in recent months,” we reported several months ago.

“The first major instance can be attributed to certain comments from Team Principal Christian Horner and Mercedes head honcho Toto Wolff during a Friday press conference at the Portuguese Grand Prix.”
https://www.bosshunting.com.au/sport/f1 ... ntry-2022/

Much of the article linked (I just pulled the relevant to the Autocar comments piece) just talks of the impending confirmation of a VAG presence in F1

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#15

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Red Bull and Volkswagen group have strong ties. I fully expect it to be a tie up between the two if it happens at all. If.
Autocar have written of discussions with both McLaren and Red BUll. It seems things are hotting up and certainly Red Bull as we picked are in there, but maybe also McLaren as well ...... with potential VAG stakes in either or both teams.
According to Autocar, there are ongoing discussions between Audi and McLaren, Audi and Red Bull surrounding the prospect of a partnership, potentially with equity stakes in each respective race team. Whether VW intends to double down and enter Porsche in tandem is another question mark. All we know is that any scenario will require considerable time. The earliest you’ll see those four iconic rings on an F1 livery – or the unmistakable horse crest – will be 2026 (when the incoming regulations are implemented).

Volkswagen Group Audi F1 Porsche F1 Formula 1
Previously, several parties – present company included – believed Porsche was the frontrunner to represent Volkswagen Group in Formula 1, not Audi. Insiders revealed Porsche was extremely interested in a full-package deal – but the door has been left wide open for an entry via alternative avenues.

As many of you may be aware, as of the most recent season’s conclusion, Honda has formally exited from F1. And while Red Bull has acquired the intellectual property and all those precious technical blueprints from Honda, it wouldn’t hurt to find another experienced engine manufacturer to maintain an edge over Mercedes. Plus there’s no reason why other teams like past collaborator McLaren wouldn’t be interested in a Porsche power unit, either.

“Partnering with Red Bull appears to be the most obvious route to F1 glory. And the flames of paddock gossip has only been fanned in recent months,” we reported several months ago.

A bit of an update from Zak Brown on what he knows
, has heard, and the situation with McLaren and any association with VAG.
In essence he says the obvious in terms of avoiding his own/ Macca's position beingthat they are happy with and are contracted to Mercedes until the new engines are introduced. So he is playing down any McLaren tie up with VAG and is indeed placing the deal to be with Red Bull and with the Porsche brand.....Will VW come to F1?
Will VW come to F1?

The Volkswagen Group is considering whether to make an F1 entry but Brown rejected claims that McLaren had agreed a deal with the German giant.

Instead, he said he believed VW's Porsche brand would enter F1 in partnership with Red Bull.

"I'm hearing they are going to do something with Red Bull on the Porsche front," Brown said.

He said McLaren had spoken to VAG about F1 but said the team were committed to engine supplier Mercedes until the end of the current power-unit regulations in 2025.

"They've spoken with a handful of people on the grid, and we had conversations," Brown said. "But in the short term and medium term we are very happy where we are.

"So we are just going to wait and see are they going to come into the sport, because that's not been definitively decided.

"If they do, we have a contract through this term and naturally we're going to evaluate where we are and take a decision on what we do in 2026 in due course."
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60036659. (This part of the article is the last part of the article linked.)

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