2021 Mr Snooze Stripey FRENCH GP

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#181

Post by DoubleFart »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So why is Honda leaving the series?
They always leave just as they get their shit together.
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#182

Post by Ruslan »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So why is Honda leaving the series?
They always leave just as they get their shit together.
Yes, it has happened before. You would think they would learn.

Next question: Why does it take them so long to get their shit together?
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#183

Post by White six »

Loved the max undercut from so far back.

Reminded me of when Mark Cavendish won his world title , seemed to come from nowhere
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#184

Post by White six »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Mr_Ferrari wrote: 2 years ago
PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Mikosyko wrote: 2 years ago Was that another race without a single yellow flag or retirement? :|
Actually I didn't notice...Hard to cause a yellow flag when there is no grass or gravel right?
Given the hard crashes we saw in practice and qualifying that would've, in race conditions, surely brought out a SC at least, I am surprised there wasn't any in the race, I must say.
They don't push 100% in the race, so I kind of expect that :)

Anyway, I feel really happy for Perez somehow. After the kind of career he has had, never really shining or sticking out very much and now it's coming together with a victory and a podium. Look forward to seeing what the rest of the season brings for him.
6 seconds down on hammy is a huge improvement, yes
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#185

Post by DoubleFart »

End of the day, Perez is now "in play" quite often, which neither Alvin or Gasly ever managed. It was the right call by Red Bull to bring Sergio in, and they've got a big call to make for 2022.
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#186

Post by Michael Ferner »

John wrote: 2 years ago
Mawerick wrote: 2 years ago
John wrote: 2 years ago All of you complaining about the drivers saving tyres, would you rather have rock hard tyres that never falls of which the drivers can pound to the limit every lap? That would be boring as F to watch.
I would very much like a 100% flatout race from start to finish. Maybe the drivers would make more mistakes then.
I take it DRS would have to go as well.

No refuelling, no pit stops, cars that can't follow or pass, and no tyre deg.

I'll pass.
You mean, a return to REAL racing?? :shocked: No, we certainly can't have that again!! :rip:
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#187

Post by Star »

Just seen the race. If ever you were looking for a championship drive, surely max gave us one there. I felt for him on the first lap mistake but oh boy did he make good? The undercut on the pitstop was brilliant and then when he went for the second stop I wasn't so sure they'd made the right call. Oh boy was I wrong and happy to be so. Watching Max reel them in and pass both Mercs was good to see. Mercs gambled on the tyres lasting and they lost out.

Vettel is back to his old self in many ways, he's clearly happier at Aston Martin than he's been for a while. He looked comfortable and in control and the move on Ocon was a brave one I thought. He finished in the points and I was happy for him, he seems to be happy again with the car and himself and that is a nice thing to see for me.
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#188

Post by John »

Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago
John wrote: 2 years ago
Mawerick wrote: 2 years ago
John wrote: 2 years ago All of you complaining about the drivers saving tyres, would you rather have rock hard tyres that never falls of which the drivers can pound to the limit every lap? That would be boring as F to watch.
I would very much like a 100% flatout race from start to finish. Maybe the drivers would make more mistakes then.
I take it DRS would have to go as well.

No refuelling, no pit stops, cars that can't follow or pass, and no tyre deg.

I'll pass.
You mean, a return to REAL racing?? :shocked: No, we certainly can't have that again!! :rip:
Do enlighten me, at which point in F1 history did we have drivers go 100% full bore for the entire race, cars that could overtake any and in any way, with rock hard tyres that could last a fortnight?

I'd argue that F1 is as "entertaining" as it's ever been in terms of how tight the field is. People have always complained about how F1 isn't "pure" any longer. Hell, DSJ did that way back in the 1970's already.

F1 is entertainment. The ethos is about making money - having people stuck to their TV's before, during and after the race. It was a long time since it was "pure", or "real racing". Tech innovations put paid to that.

If you want "pure, real racing", there's Formula Ford, Renault Clio Cup, and banger racing.
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#189

Post by MonteCristo »

John wrote: 2 years ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago
John wrote: 2 years ago
Mawerick wrote: 2 years ago
John wrote: 2 years ago All of you complaining about the drivers saving tyres, would you rather have rock hard tyres that never falls of which the drivers can pound to the limit every lap? That would be boring as F to watch.
I would very much like a 100% flatout race from start to finish. Maybe the drivers would make more mistakes then.
I take it DRS would have to go as well.

No refuelling, no pit stops, cars that can't follow or pass, and no tyre deg.

I'll pass.
You mean, a return to REAL racing?? :shocked: No, we certainly can't have that again!! :rip:
Do enlighten me, at which point in F1 history did we have drivers go 100% full bore for the entire race, cars that could overtake any and in any way, with rock hard tyres that could last a fortnight?

I'd argue that F1 is as "entertaining" as it's ever been in terms of how tight the field is. People have always complained about how F1 isn't "pure" any longer. Hell, DSJ did that way back in the 1970's already.

F1 is entertainment. The ethos is about making money - having people stuck to their TV's before, during and after the race. It was a long time since it was "pure", or "real racing". Tech innovations put paid to that.

If you want "pure, real racing", there's Formula Ford, Renault Clio Cup, and banger racing.
I think people confuse 100% balls to the wall driving (with no worries about fuel, tyres, mechanical wear) with cars that are hard to drive.

I doubt drivers in 1980 were putting in qualifying laps for full race stints. They had to mind their fragile cars to look after, at the very least, not to mention tyres that weren't changed.

However, the cars were physically harder to drive (no power steering, no paddle shifting, clutch, no headrest), and simply had worse grip.

So even though they were relatively speaking probably driving very conservative for most periods of a race, the cars still looked like they were under strain, because they were.

A return to late 70s/early 80s specs with modern safety would keep me excited all race long.
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#190

Post by DoubleFart »

Prost was called the Professor for his accurate, maximum speed for minimal effort, calculated use of both the car and tyres.

Hardly balls to the wall.
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#191

Post by erwin greven »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Prost was called the Professor for his accurate, maximum speed for minimal effort, calculated use of both the car and tyres.

Hardly balls to the wall.
Also bring in Jimmy Clark, Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda. They all knew how to maximize speed with minimal effort.
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#192

Post by Ruslan »

Yes, lots of people want to go back to some perfect point in the past that never was.
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#193

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Prost was called the Professor for his accurate, maximum speed for minimal effort, calculated use of both the car and tyres.

Hardly balls to the wall.
Lauda ISTR was famed for saying the art was to drive as slowly as possible (as fast as you need, no faster) to win / without being passed. Something along the lines of you score the same points if you win by a second or 5 minutes.

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#194

Post by SBan83 »

There's no doubt they drive to a delta today and aren't really going as flat-out in the race as they could be. One of the biggest telltale signs of that is in the difference between pole time and fastest lap. In the 2003 European GP, pole and fastest lap were 1:31.523 and 1:32.621 respectively. In yesterday's French GP, pole was 1:29.990 and fastest lap was 1:36.404.
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#195

Post by Michael Ferner »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago Yes, lots of people want to go back to some perfect point in the past that never was.
That's not the point, not at all. But all of you who think that racing "back in the day" was a stroll through the park, and that only today's drivers are real athletes, are way off the mark. It's probably a pointless discussion, but I am very certain that today's drivers have it a LOT easier than even only twenty, thirty or forty years ago. Not to mention the prewar years. Maximum speed with minimum effort, that to me describes racing in the 21st century - paddle shifting, power steering, tons of downforce on pancake tracks, turnkey cars with tank-like reliability, tailored to fit the driver like a glove, with pitwall support to make it truly comfortable for the "passenger" in the car. And we won't even go into the lack of actual track limits, or the sprint-like nature of today's "stints" between pit stops. F1 racing today is actually not that diffferent from driving a simulator.

But my point is that the "racing" is no longer happening on the track. Pit stops and DRS are means to artificially change positions, but that's not "real" racing, it's merely show. I can recall races where a driver "worked" his opponent for thirty minutes and more, to finally force him into a minimal error that made it possible to pass. Today's TV "fans" do not have the attention span to tolerate that, I get it. That's why today's "racing" is no longer for me, simples.

All those items discussed, whether rock-hard tyres or the banning of aerodynamic aids, are possible solutions, but they don't address the real problem. The real problem is TV, and the attention span of the average viewer. Racing is a sport that lives off the fact that "the perfect lap" is impossible. Try studying a timing report for any race, be it a modern GP or a Formula Ford race of the sixties, and you'll see individual lap times fluctuating like mad - that's because drivers always make tiny errors, and lose different amounts of time on different laps. The goal is to minimze those losses, and to pressure other drivers into maximizing theirs. That can be a tedious business, and no way modern TV producers are going to risk losing viewers who don't get that. Again, simples.
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#196

Post by DoubleFart »

DoubleFart wrote: 2 years ago Fully expecting Merc to put Bottas for mediums or softs, forcing Max to pit, and leave Lewis out to one stop.
I posted this about 2 laps before Max did his second stop.

If they had done this the very next lap after I posted, Bottas could potentially have jumped Max with the undercut, forcing Red Bull to stay out and fight Lewis, or cede position and have to fight Bottas on equal tyres.

^^^ THAT ^^^ was the call that would have won Mercedes the race.
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