2021 AZERBAIJAN GP

[Ruslan]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Having said that there's one thing that I disagree with in this article: competition and a second supplier are irrelevant.....

Well, I am always been supportive of multiple tire manufacturers in F1, because I think it in the spirit of F1 and adds another interesting dimension to the show. Remember the competition between Goodyear and Michelin in the early 1980s? On some seasons, there were four different tire manufacturers in F1. It actually helped to add variability and competition to the series, for some tracks favored the Michelin-shod teams and some favored the Goodyear-shod teams. So on any give race, half of the teams gained an advantage but it changed from track to track.

Now, I am not sure they could go back to that for as you correctly note "Pirelli produces tyres in accordance to the technical specification that they receive from F1..."

The tires are designed to slow the car down and wear out quickly. I am not sure what we would get if we went with multiple competing tire manufacturers, but.... I suspect the cars would gain at least 2 seconds a lap (you said 5). Of course, they could always put grooves on them (an idea that truly sucked).

Anyhow, I have never been sold on the idea of spicing up the game through rigged tires.

To sum this up IMHO the problem is not Pirelli but the logic behind crap tyres that are deemed necessary to spice things up

Agreed.

In order to introduce multiple tyre manufacturers (and therefore ditching the policy that very poor tyres are useful to slow down cars and spice things up, without 2 tyres blowing up the race would have been rather boring and we wouldn't be talking about it) they would have to go back to 100% thermal engines, limit engine capacity to something like 1500cc or thereabout and ditch most of the aero devices that they are using. I'd love it!!!!

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

[Ruslan]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

Including the banning wings idea?

[MonteCristo]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

Including the banning wings idea?

What's your take on power to grip without wings?

Go back to ground effects so they don't lose much speed?

Or go back to a 60s formula of no wings and smaller engine capacity?

Or maintain a similar engine capacity to today and make them sliding monsters?

Or something else?

[Ruslan]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

Including the banning wings idea?

What's your take on power to grip without wings?

Go back to ground effects so they don't lose much speed?

Or go back to a 60s formula of no wings and smaller engine capacity?

Or maintain a similar engine capacity to today and make them sliding monsters?

Or something else?

Maybe this should be a separate thread. You want power, you don't want to go back to ground effects. They are not going to loose speed in a straight line, just around the corners. Longer braking distances, easier to pass. Cars no longer disrupted by aerodynamics. No DRS. Slipstreaming. Not going back to the 60s. These cars will still be very different and modern. There will be a whole new re-work of the aerodynamics (noses, spoilers, fins), making things interesting.

[MonteCristo]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

Including the banning wings idea?

What's your take on power to grip without wings?

Go back to ground effects so they don't lose much speed?

Or go back to a 60s formula of no wings and smaller engine capacity?

Or maintain a similar engine capacity to today and make them sliding monsters?

Or something else?

Maybe this should be a separate thread. You want power, you don't want to go back to ground effects. They are not going to loose speed in a straight line, just around the corners. Longer braking distances, easier to pass. Cars no longer disrupted by aerodynamics. No DRS. Slipstreaming. Not going back to the 60s. These cars will still be very different and modern. There will be a whole new re-work of the aerodynamics (noses, spoilers, fins), making things interesting.

Count me in.

... But just don't see it happening if it slowed them down too much. A couple of years ago the marketing was "fastest cars evars!".

However, I wonder what a simple change like less efficient brakes would do though. Cheaper to enact than a massive formula change.

[Ruslan]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

Including the banning wings idea?

What's your take on power to grip without wings?

Go back to ground effects so they don't lose much speed?

Or go back to a 60s formula of no wings and smaller engine capacity?

Or maintain a similar engine capacity to today and make them sliding monsters?

Or something else?

Maybe this should be a separate thread. You want power, you don't want to go back to ground effects. They are not going to loose speed in a straight line, just around the corners. Longer braking distances, easier to pass. Cars no longer disrupted by aerodynamics. No DRS. Slipstreaming. Not going back to the 60s. These cars will still be very different and modern. There will be a whole new re-work of the aerodynamics (noses, spoilers, fins), making things interesting.

Count me in.

... But just don't see it happening if it slowed them down too much. A couple of years ago the marketing was "fastest cars evars!".

However, I wonder what a simple change like less efficient brakes would do though. Cheaper to enact than a massive formula change.

I have also suggested banning carbon brakes. That alone I think would help.

But, in the bigger picture the idea of racing the biggest baddest cars is kind of gone. They have reached the point where all the racing series are seriously restricting their car performance. It is all controlled now. As long of F1 cars are faster than F2 and Indy cars, they are fine.

[Everso Biggyballies]

I have also suggested banning carbon brakes. That alone I think would help.

I agree that carbon brakes are an issue with breaking distances becoming so much shorter than previously have in effect altered motor racing and the fact that tiny braking distances have altered the dynamics of motor racing.... the historic outbreaking manoeuvre has now such limited distance to happen. Of course braking efficiency in turn reflects on many other factors, factors like top speed. Cars now reach higher top speeds partly due to the fact the driver is 'on the gas' much longer than he used to be thus top speed is higher. Of course top speed relates also to drag, engine output etc so it isnt quite that simple but brakes and their efficiency now does mean less time and distance is spent braking. The increased aero increases the problem because cornering speeds are higher. ie a cr does not need to slow down so much to get round a corner. Of course tyres are also in the equation.
The big problem about banning carbon brakes is that they have been around in F1 for 40 years since the early eighties. Now carbon brakes are a fact on many performance cars. Plus the safety aspect makes it a hard gig to ban what has been a historic part of F1 for so long.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Perez thanks Albon for help and input

Changing the subject back to the AZ GP, I cant help but notice what a nice guy Sergio Perez is, an exception in the cut throat world of being a Red Bull driver alongside Max, and the history that goes with the position. It also is a credit to Albon given his situation with Sergio replacing him that he has been such an open and helpful person in those circumstances.

I have always admired Sergio's attitude but he has now taken it to another level with a public statement thanking Albon for all his help and openness since he (Sergio) joined Red Bull, and in effect points the finger to Albon's behind the scene contribution to his settling in and the benefits to him. Sergio Perez has revealed his surprise at how open Alex Albon has been since the Mexican’s arrival at Red Bull.

Having taken the win last weekend he made comment as to how open Albon has been, given Albon not only got dumped. from Red Bull but also dumped from F1 to now being involved in DTM, but also importantly the work he puts in on the simulator to help Sergio..
“He’s putting so much work into the simulator, with the engineers,” Perez said.

He also had kind words about Max who was quick to congratulate Sergio on his win despite his frustrations of in effect having given the win away after his tyre issue.

“I remember when I came here, you wouldn’t expect from him to be so open, in a way, with me.

“But he explained to me all the issues that he’d had, how the car works and that was very nice, since day one, to have from him.

“So I really appreciated that, and I appreciate the work that he’s put in weekend after weekend with the team, with the simulator.

“This is teamwork, and ultimately we are there thanks to every single individual in the team.”

“I think we’ve got a pretty good team,” Perez said.

“I think what Max did [when I was on the podium] was great to see.

“He really deserved the win, he did everything perfect that weekend, he was just very unlucky, so it was really his win.”

Good stuff Sergio, (and Alex for his contribution.)

[Ruslan]

I have also suggested banning carbon brakes. That alone I think would help.

I agree that carbon brakes are an issue with breaking distances becoming so much shorter than previously have in effect altered motor racing and the fact that tiny braking distances have altered the dynamics of motor racing.... the historic outbreaking manoeuvre has now such limited distance to happen. Of course braking efficiency in turn reflects on many other factors, factors like top speed. Cars now reach higher top speeds partly due to the fact the driver is 'on the gas' much longer than he used to be thus top speed is higher. Of course top speed relates also to drag, engine output etc so it isnt quite that simple but brakes and their efficiency now does mean less time and distance is spent braking. The increased aero increases the problem because cornering speeds are higher. ie a cr does not need to slow down so much to get round a corner. Of course tyres are also in the equation.
The big problem about banning carbon brakes is that they have been around in F1 for 40 years since the early eighties. Now carbon brakes are a fact on many performance cars. Plus the safety aspect makes it a hard gig to ban what has been a historic part of F1 for so long.

Carbon brakes can be used on road cars. Wings really are not. I think banning wings would do a whole lot more. The braking distances is an issue, partially solved by banning carbon brakes, completely solved by banning wings.

[Ruslan]

Perez thanks Albon for help and input

Changing the subject back to the AZ GP, I cant help but notice what a nice guy Sergio Perez is....

Well, there is a mixed record there. There is a reason why McLaren dumped him after only one season, openly acknowledging that he was a good driver and replacing him with a less capable driver. Certainly in his interviews for his first couple of seasons in F1 everything and everyone else were to blame, and not him. He seems to have toned this down in recent times. That said, he did step up to the plate and save the Force India team and their crew. Now he seems quite likable but that was not the impression he gave when he first came into F1.

[DoubleFart]

Perez refused to back down at McLaren, that was the issue. He wanted to prove himself, and got shit for it from Button, and therefore the team.

[Ruslan]

Perez refused to back down at McLaren, that was the issue. He wanted to prove himself, and got shit for it from Button, and therefore the team.

Well, there clearly was an issue. It is pretty unheard of for a driver in a team to be fired after one season (unless you are Helmut Marko). Wikipedia, the fount of all knowledge, says of the season:

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On 28 September 2012, Lewis Hamilton's decision to leave McLaren for Mercedes in 2013 was announced, and Pérez was subsequently confirmed as Hamilton's replacement.[51] He also replaced Hamilton in McLaren's cartoon Tooned.[52] This also ended Pérez' association with Ferrari, as he was released from its driver academy.

In the season-opening race in Australia, Pérez qualified 15th and finished in 11th position, later describing the weekend as "difficult" for himself and the team as a whole.[53] He started the Malaysian Grand Prix from ninth on the grid, and finished the race in the same position, scoring his first points for McLaren. He also achieved the fastest lap of the race, having pitted for fresh tyres.[54][55]

In the Bahrain GP, he started 12th on the grid and finishing 6th ahead of Ferrari's Fernando Alonso (8th) and his teammate Jenson Button (10th), with whom he had a fierce duel in which they touched on a couple of occasions, increasing the competition between drivers in McLaren on the following races.[56]

After the Bahrain Grand Prix, Jenson Button said of Pérez's driving style:

I've raced with many team-mates over the years and with quite an aggressive team-mate in Lewis, but I'm not used to driving down the straight and then my team-mate coming along and wiggling his wheels at me and banging wheels with me at 300km/h. I've had some tough fights in F1 but not quite as dirty as that. That's something you do in karting and normally you grow out of it but that's obviously not the case with Checo [Pérez]. Soon something serious will happen so he has to calm down. He's extremely quick and he did a great job today but some of it is unnecessary and an issue when you are doing those speeds.

— Jenson Button speaking to ESPN about Pérez after the 2013 Bahrain Grand Prix[57]

Pérez at the 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix
At the 2013 Monaco Grand Prix Pérez performed several aggressive overtaking moves, before retiring after colliding with Kimi Räikkönen. Following the incident Räikkönen said that Pérez should be "punched in the face".[58] Pérez recorded a season-best fifth-place finish in India, finishing four seconds shy of the podium, a result that left him "extremely satisfied".[59]

Pérez confirmed on 13 November 2013 that he would be leaving McLaren at the end of the season to be replaced by Kevin Magnussen.[60] On 12 December 2013 (exactly a month after it was announced he would leave McLaren), Force India confirmed that Pérez would join Nico Hülkenberg in their driver line-up for 2014 in a 15 million Euro deal.

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I do recall that McLaren management was not happy at all with Perez. I vaguely remember them saying something like it was because he was unwilling to acknowledge his mistakes.

[Star]

Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.

I agree

Including the banning wings idea?

What's your take on power to grip without wings?

Go back to ground effects so they don't lose much speed?

Or go back to a 60s formula of no wings and smaller engine capacity?

Or maintain a similar engine capacity to today and make them sliding monsters?

Or something else?

Maybe this should be a separate thread. You want power, you don't want to go back to ground effects. They are not going to loose speed in a straight line, just around the corners. Longer braking distances, easier to pass. Cars no longer disrupted by aerodynamics. No DRS. Slipstreaming. Not going back to the 60s. These cars will still be very different and modern. There will be a whole new re-work of the aerodynamics (noses, spoilers, fins), making things interesting.

Count me in.

... But just don't see it happening if it slowed them down too much. A couple of years ago the marketing was "fastest cars evars!".

However, I wonder what a simple change like less efficient brakes would do though. Cheaper to enact than a massive formula change.

Me too The thing is, it might make the racing better, so I doubt they will go for it

[Mawerick]

Problem with banning wings is that you'd have to ban them in all lower classes as well.

[Ruslan]

Problem with banning wings is that you'd have to ban them in all lower classes as well.

Yea I think so.

The thing is, you can do it under the rubric of "safety" as slowing the cars down in the corners certainly makes them safer.

But yea, banning wings is a huge step, so I have never found too many people on board with this idea. NASCAR at one point had wings.