2021 AZERBAIJAN GP

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Ruslan
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#361

Post by Ruslan »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Comment from a tire guy: https://www.grandprix.com/news/f1-tyre- ... story.html

Summation: "a problem with the carcass." He does not buy the debris excuse.
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#362

Post by White six »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
theracer120 wrote: 2 years ago On a lighter note here's Mark Webber screaming:
:haha: :haha:

That's the same noise I make when I realise there's a large spider in my room.
Same reaction as every F1 fan in the world, sheer joy :haha:
Last edited by White six 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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#363

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago Comment from a tire guy: https://www.grandprix.com/news/f1-tyre- ... story.html

Summation: "a problem with the carcass." He does not buy the debris excuse.
I'm not qualified to comment on this matter, however a problem with the carcass of the rear left tyre seems consistent with Stroll's accident, has nothing to do with Hamilton's problem, and is a possibility with Verstappen (his rear left tyre didn't implode like Stroll's).

Having said that there's one thing that I disagree with in this article: competition and a second supplier are irrelevant, Pirelli produces tyres in accordance to the technical specification that they receive from F1, that's the real problem, if you want to spice races up by having tyres that have a given track life then you are bound to have this kind of problem. Pirelli have been manufacturing very good racing tyres for decades, it's not as if they forgot how to do it. IMHO Pirelli have been silly in accepting this situation but that's another problem. Pirelli, or any other supplier, could easily build tyres that are 5 seconds quicker per laps but that is not what they have been tasked to do, they have been asked to come up with a product that doesn't last very long so we get more pit stops and maybe during a pit stop someone manages to pass another car (on the assumption that due to the aero effect of these cars on track overtakings are almost impossible without some sort of external help).

To sum this up IMHO the problem is not Pirelli but the logic behind crap tyres that are deemed necessary to spice things up
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#364

Post by caneparo »

Pirelli doesnt try to spice up races. They’re hust a bunch of incompetents that can produce an f1 tyre in monopoly
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#365

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P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 2 years ago Having said that there's one thing that I disagree with in this article: competition and a second supplier are irrelevant.....
Well, I am always been supportive of multiple tire manufacturers in F1, because I think it in the spirit of F1 and adds another interesting dimension to the show. Remember the competition between Goodyear and Michelin in the early 1980s? On some seasons, there were four different tire manufacturers in F1. It actually helped to add variability and competition to the series, for some tracks favored the Michelin-shod teams and some favored the Goodyear-shod teams. So on any give race, half of the teams gained an advantage but it changed from track to track.

Now, I am not sure they could go back to that for as you correctly note "Pirelli produces tyres in accordance to the technical specification that they receive from F1..."

The tires are designed to slow the car down and wear out quickly. I am not sure what we would get if we went with multiple competing tire manufacturers, but.... I suspect the cars would gain at least 2 seconds a lap (you said 5). Of course, they could always put grooves on them ;) (an idea that truly sucked).

Anyhow, I have never been sold on the idea of spicing up the game through rigged tires.
To sum this up IMHO the problem is not Pirelli but the logic behind crap tyres that are deemed necessary to spice things up
Agreed.
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#366

Post by Aty »

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago Comment from a tire guy: https://www.grandprix.com/news/f1-tyre- ... story.html

Summation: "a problem with the carcass." He does not buy the debris excuse.
I'm not qualified to comment on this matter, however a problem with the carcass of the rear left tyre seems consistent with Stroll's accident, has nothing to do with Hamilton's problem, and is a possibility with Verstappen (his rear left tyre didn't implode like Stroll's).

Having said that there's one thing that I disagree with in this article: competition and a second supplier are irrelevant, Pirelli produces tyres in accordance to the technical specification that they receive from F1, that's the real problem, if you want to spice races up by having tyres that have a given track life then you are bound to have this kind of problem. Pirelli have been manufacturing very good racing tyres for decades, it's not as if they forgot how to do it. IMHO Pirelli have been silly in accepting this situation but that's another problem. Pirelli, or any other supplier, could easily build tyres that are 5 seconds quicker per laps but that is not what they have been tasked to do, they have been asked to come up with a product that doesn't last very long so we get more pit stops and maybe during a pit stop someone manages to pass another car (on the assumption that due to the aero effect of these cars on track overtakings are almost impossible without some sort of external help).

To sum this up IMHO the problem is not Pirelli but the logic behind crap tyres that are deemed necessary to spice things up
Agree without reservation.

The idea to spice up racing with tires of certain characteristics is dating back to time when overtaking was rare and infrequent. Hembery was managing F1 activities for Pirelli in that period. Encouraged by FiA and some in paddock, he used to consult often with Whitmarsh, however guidance he received from that source was vague, abstract, and hardly exact in terms of specific physical characteristics. (All available on the internet - somewhere). It has taken a few season, before Pirelli could reproduce and replicate this kind of "unusual" product. (Crap is good word for it as any). As a fan I am not in favour of multiple suppliers, as such situation introduces another dominant variable, and I don't want tires to dominate discussions, as at one time used to be.

Pirelli needs a word from FiA, and tires will be be seen, but not heard from. Crashing cars, and dripping carbon fibber debris all over however will not do however any good for any tire manufacturer. The same can be said about curbs. To conclude, speeds are high, and Pirelli needs a car and properly test tire on track. Again, FiA meeds to facilitate such process, instead creating problems by reaffirming specs too late, as it happened a few times. Pirelli receives a lot of flak, but I think we are barking on wrong tree.
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#367

Post by White six »

I hadn't realised pirelli won the first WC grand Prix in 1950.

I remember Piquet at Paul Ricard which I think was the first win after they returned
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#368

Post by Vassago »

White six wrote: 2 years ago I hadn't realised pirelli won the first WC grand Prix in 1950.

I remember Piquet at Paul Ricard which I think was the first win after they returned
Well, Italian constructors used Italian tires in the 1950s after all. Maserati was the last Pirelli customer until the end of 1958.
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#369

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

White six wrote: 2 years ago I hadn't realised pirelli won the first WC grand Prix in 1950.

I remember Piquet at Paul Ricard which I think was the first win after they returned
And I think the first 4 World Championships.
Even 1954 WDC Fangio used Pirelli tyres in the first two races that year. (17/42 of his points that year were won on Pirelli tyres) :wink:

FYI As well as the first win of their return, Piquet also won the last GP Pirelli won in the last of their pre 2011 stints. (Canada 1991 with Benetton) :smiley:

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#370

Post by Michael Ferner »

Vassago wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago I hadn't realised pirelli won the first WC grand Prix in 1950.

I remember Piquet at Paul Ricard which I think was the first win after they returned
Well, Italian constructors used Italian tires in the 1950s after all.
'xcept when they used Belgian. :wink:
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#371

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago I hadn't realised pirelli won the first WC grand Prix in 1950.

I remember Piquet at Paul Ricard which I think was the first win after they returned
And I think the first 4 World Championships.
Even 1954 WDC Fangio used Pirelli tyres in the first two races that year. (17/42 of his points that year were won on Pirelli tyres) :wink:

FYI As well as the first win of their return, Piquet also won the last GP Pirelli won in the last of their pre 2011 stints. (Canada 1991 with Benetton) :smiley:
I see the only other win in that period was Berger in 86. It wasn't particularly successful. The brabham of 85 probably wasn't a bad car, but Bernie had no doubt struck one of his dodgy deals and tyres were undoubtedly a disadvantage compared to the Goodyears
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#372

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Saw these on another website and thea amused me so.....

Image

Image

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#373

Post by MonteCristo »

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#374

Post by P. Cornelius Scipio »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 2 years ago Having said that there's one thing that I disagree with in this article: competition and a second supplier are irrelevant.....
Well, I am always been supportive of multiple tire manufacturers in F1, because I think it in the spirit of F1 and adds another interesting dimension to the show. Remember the competition between Goodyear and Michelin in the early 1980s? On some seasons, there were four different tire manufacturers in F1. It actually helped to add variability and competition to the series, for some tracks favored the Michelin-shod teams and some favored the Goodyear-shod teams. So on any give race, half of the teams gained an advantage but it changed from track to track.

Now, I am not sure they could go back to that for as you correctly note "Pirelli produces tyres in accordance to the technical specification that they receive from F1..."

The tires are designed to slow the car down and wear out quickly. I am not sure what we would get if we went with multiple competing tire manufacturers, but.... I suspect the cars would gain at least 2 seconds a lap (you said 5). Of course, they could always put grooves on them ;) (an idea that truly sucked).

Anyhow, I have never been sold on the idea of spicing up the game through rigged tires.
To sum this up IMHO the problem is not Pirelli but the logic behind crap tyres that are deemed necessary to spice things up
Agreed.
In order to introduce multiple tyre manufacturers (and therefore ditching the policy that very poor tyres are useful to slow down cars and spice things up, without 2 tyres blowing up the race would have been rather boring and we wouldn't be talking about it) they would have to go back to 100% thermal engines, limit engine capacity to something like 1500cc or thereabout and ditch most of the aero devices that they are using. I'd love it!!!!
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#375

Post by Michael Ferner »

Back to 1965? Where do I sign the petition...
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#376

Post by Ruslan »

P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
P. Cornelius Scipio wrote: 2 years ago Having said that there's one thing that I disagree with in this article: competition and a second supplier are irrelevant.....
Well, I am always been supportive of multiple tire manufacturers in F1, because I think it in the spirit of F1 and adds another interesting dimension to the show. Remember the competition between Goodyear and Michelin in the early 1980s? On some seasons, there were four different tire manufacturers in F1. It actually helped to add variability and competition to the series, for some tracks favored the Michelin-shod teams and some favored the Goodyear-shod teams. So on any give race, half of the teams gained an advantage but it changed from track to track.

Now, I am not sure they could go back to that for as you correctly note "Pirelli produces tyres in accordance to the technical specification that they receive from F1..."

The tires are designed to slow the car down and wear out quickly. I am not sure what we would get if we went with multiple competing tire manufacturers, but.... I suspect the cars would gain at least 2 seconds a lap (you said 5). Of course, they could always put grooves on them ;) (an idea that truly sucked).

Anyhow, I have never been sold on the idea of spicing up the game through rigged tires.
To sum this up IMHO the problem is not Pirelli but the logic behind crap tyres that are deemed necessary to spice things up
Agreed.
In order to introduce multiple tyre manufacturers (and therefore ditching the policy that very poor tyres are useful to slow down cars and spice things up, without 2 tyres blowing up the race would have been rather boring and we wouldn't be talking about it) they would have to go back to 100% thermal engines, limit engine capacity to something like 1500cc or thereabout and ditch most of the aero devices that they are using. I'd love it!!!!
Yea, they have gotten themselves on a path that is hard to get off of. On the other hand, I have been a lone voice on these forums for a while that maybe F1 should just ban all wings.
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