2021 Monaco GP

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#226

Post by Michael Ferner »

Bottom post of the previous page:

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago Re Leclerc, I don't really understand - in "my time", they used to have an untimed Sunday morning "warm-up" practice session, exactly for the purpose of avoiding situations like that. Why is that no longer so? :huh:
Because of the stupid "parc ferme" regulations where they wrap the car up in clingfilm and tell the teams they are not able to touch the car.

I'm pretty sure that was only done to 'spice up' the racing.
It's hardly "parc fermé" if they are allowed to repair his car! Just saying.

"Spice up the racing", eh? ALL they have EVER done to that end has put me off the sport. :sorrow:
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#227

Post by SBan83 »

They keep using the wrong spices.
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#228

Post by erwin greven »

Brian Redman: "Mr. Fangio, how do you come so fast?" "More throttle, less brakes...."
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#229

Post by Mawerick »

White six wrote: 2 years agoTo be fair, everything is reliable as fuck these days, such help is no longer needed.
This is mostly due to drivers not really pushing the cars in races anymore. They are managing tyres and fuel, which means they're driving at 8-9 tenths, not 10 unless absolutely necessary. Of course you want to win, but with the slowest possible time in order to preserve the car.

I wish the regulations would encourage balls to the wall flat out racing, instead of the current "manage everything" processions.
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#230

Post by SBan83 »

Found footage of the hairy moment between Vettel and Gasly on the run up to Casino Square, which the tv coverage missed completely.
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#231

Post by White six »

Mawerick wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years agoTo be fair, everything is reliable as fuck these days, such help is no longer needed.
This is mostly due to drivers not really pushing the cars in races anymore. They are managing tyres and fuel, which means they're driving at 8-9 tenths, not 10 unless absolutely necessary. Of course you want to win, but with the slowest possible time in order to preserve the car.

I wish the regulations would encourage balls to the wall flat out racing, instead of the current "manage everything" processions.
It's not mostly due to that. It's mostly due to the myriad of improvements to technical reliability. You should watch some races from the 80s to remind yourself.

There was plenty sandbagging to protect the machinery back then too btw
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#232

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottas wheelnut still stuck on Mercedes car after pitstop issue

I was reading today that Mercedes will only be able to remove the wheelnut from Bottas’s car upon returning to its factory after his race-ending pitstop issue in Monaco.

James Allison had this to say:
“If we don’t quite get the pitstop gun cleanly on the nut, then it can chip away at the driving faces of the nut,” Allison said.

“We call it machining the nut. It is a bit like when you take a Phillips head screwdriver, and you don’t get it squarely in the cross of the screwdriver.

“You start to round off the driving face of the screwdriver slots, and then you just simply can’t take the screw out of whatever it is you are trying to take it out of because you have no longer got the driving faces.

“A very similar thing happens with our pitstop nuts if the gun starts spinning and chipping off the driving faces of the wheelnut.

“Given the power of the gun, you can end up with no driving face and you just machine the nut down to a place where there is nothing left to grab a hold of, and that is what we had today.”

Allison revealed that Mercedes was unable to get the wheelnut off the car at all, requiring a high-power drill to make the removal back at the factory.

“We eventually didn’t get the wheel off, it is sat in our garage with the wheel still on it,” Allison said.

“It will have to be ground off, get a Dremel out and painfully slice through the remnants of the wheel nut. We will do that back at the factory.”
Image

That is a good wheel. (ie not the damaged one) You can see the vertical extensions that are normally captured by the gun in a normal removal.

In this tweet clip below of the stop you not only see the thousands of metal chards flying off but you see the wheel after with nothing left to grab on to.


I must admit I find it bizarre that they dont carry something that allows them to get the wheel off in a case like this. All they can do now is take the whole corner off to remove the stuck wheel! If it has to go back to the factory to be removed its a good job this is not a back to back weekend. They have a week to do it. :mrgreen:

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#233

Post by MonteCristo »

White six wrote: 2 years ago There was plenty sandbagging to protect the machinery back then too btw
Yes. But the cars were harder to drive (less grip, bumpier tracks, needing to manually shift with a clutch and gear shift), so they looked more on edge even if they were taking it relatively easy.

Today they have 20 tonnes of downforce, drive on billiard tables, and paddle shift. And have power steering. And get talked through every problem on the radio.
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#234

Post by PTRACER »

Is this really to scale? :wow:

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#235

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Yes im afraid it is The cars nowadays are so long . All in the aid of more downforce area. Larger floor areas which generate much of the downforce.
"Aero gains via allowing the air to transition over wider radius panels, helping the air to remain attached, same idea when they want to turn air to aim it for another surface, you have more space to do so."
The other reasons are that all the hybrid, KERS (or ERS whatever they call it now) Batteries etc plus of course the larger fuel tanks due to no refuelling.
Gearboxes now are much longer and thinner, believe it or not for aero reasons.

Found this pic on Autosport forums showing how they have grown over the years
Image

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#236

Post by Michael Ferner »

MonteCristo wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago There was plenty sandbagging to protect the machinery back then too btw
Yes. But the cars were harder to drive (less grip, bumpier tracks, needing to manually shift with a clutch and gear shift), so they looked more on edge even if they were taking it relatively easy.

Today they have 20 tonnes of downforce, drive on billiard tables, and paddle shift. And have power steering. And get talked through every problem on the radio.
And yet there are still people who believe that today's drivers are on the same level as those of the past, or even better. All that silly talk of Hamilton being the GOAT, when F1 racing today is just a parody of what it once was.
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#237

Post by DoubleFart »

But nobody could do what Lewis does, Senna only had Berger as a teammate, and Schumacher only had Barrichello, so they were all dud titles, the cars are faster now, the Merc is less dominant than the 88 Mclaren, 02 and 04 Ferraris, so it's actually crap, and Bottas is actually better than Senna, but Hamilton just makes him look crap.
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#238

Post by Aty »

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... g1HrC.html
Ferrari investigation finds that Leclerc qualifying crash WAS to blame for issue that forced Monaco DNS
Some of you may recall our conversation in here where it was said that Binotto has taken risk with that post-crash examination. There simply wasn't time and conditions for proper investigation. I think he knew as an engineer, what he was facing. There is no point to swell on it. Leclerc however...
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#239

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 2 years ago https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... g1HrC.html
Ferrari investigation finds that Leclerc qualifying crash WAS to blame for issue that forced Monaco DNS
Some of you may recall our conversation in here where it was said that Binotto has taken risk with that post-crash examination. There simply wasn't time and conditions for proper investigation. I think he knew as an engineer, what he was facing. There is no point to swell on it. Leclerc however...
The stupid thing is that Ferrari were totally slack in their post crash pre race investigation. The gearbox was fine. We get that. But other ancilliary parts such as a driveshaft hub should have been checked and crack tested as a matter of course, if not replaced automatically as part of the. repair job.

There is no penalty attached to replacing a hub, and no such restriction of safety related parts replacement under par ferme regs. The hub did not crack on the outlap, the crack was there from the crash. The crack just cause the driveshaft hub to fail as soon as it was put under load.

That one is purely down to bad management and poor processes for such investigation work. It would be checked on a road car after a heavy crash. It is inexcusable that it was not checked on an F1 car after a crash. Changes in processes and policy need to be made.

Is Binotto still team principal, and who is the trackside head of engineering. They should both be worried for their future.

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#240

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
Aty wrote: 2 years ago https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... g1HrC.html
Ferrari investigation finds that Leclerc qualifying crash WAS to blame for issue that forced Monaco DNS
Some of you may recall our conversation in here where it was said that Binotto has taken risk with that post-crash examination. There simply wasn't time and conditions for proper investigation. I think he knew as an engineer, what he was facing. There is no point to swell on it. Leclerc however...
The stupid thing is that Ferrari were totally slack in their post crash pre race investigation. The gearbox was fine. We get that. But other ancilliary parts such as a driveshaft hub should have been checked and crack tested as a matter of course, if not replaced automatically as part of the. repair job.

There is no penalty attached to replacing a hub, and no such restriction of safety related parts replacement under par ferme regs. The hub did not crack on the outlap, the crack was there from the crash. The crack just cause the driveshaft hub to fail as soon as it was put under load.

That one is purely down to bad management and poor processes for such investigation work. It would be checked on a road car after a heavy crash. It is inexcusable that it was not checked on an F1 car after a crash. Changes in processes and policy need to be made.

Is Binotto still team principal, and who is the trackside head of engineering. They should both be worried for their future.
Nothing will happen to anyone. There will be a debate, some screaming, but at the end it will end up as Lessons Learned. I thought they did not had enough time or tools to execute in-depth investigation while FiA was breathing on their collective necks.
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#241

Post by White six »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
Aty wrote: 2 years ago https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... g1HrC.html
Ferrari investigation finds that Leclerc qualifying crash WAS to blame for issue that forced Monaco DNS
Some of you may recall our conversation in here where it was said that Binotto has taken risk with that post-crash examination. There simply wasn't time and conditions for proper investigation. I think he knew as an engineer, what he was facing. There is no point to swell on it. Leclerc however...
The stupid thing is that Ferrari were totally slack in their post crash pre race investigation. The gearbox was fine. We get that. But other ancilliary parts such as a driveshaft hub should have been checked and crack tested as a matter of course, if not replaced automatically as part of the. repair job.

There is no penalty attached to replacing a hub, and no such restriction of safety related parts replacement under par ferme regs. The hub did not crack on the outlap, the crack was there from the crash. The crack just cause the driveshaft hub to fail as soon as it was put under load.

That one is purely down to bad management and poor processes for such investigation work. It would be checked on a road car after a heavy crash. It is inexcusable that it was not checked on an F1 car after a crash. Changes in processes and policy need to be made.

Is Binotto still team principal, and who is the trackside head of engineering. They should both be worried for their future.
Binotto is overseeing an impressive return to form. Absolutely no chance he's in trouble. Hth
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