Low- versus High-Rake

Current Formula One related news, information and discussion.
User avatar
PTRACER
Forum Administrator
Forum Administrator
Posts: 42138
Joined: 20 years ago
Real Name: Paul
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 49
Favourite Driver: Gilles Villeneuve, James Hunt
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife
Car(s) Currently Owned: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X JDM
Contact:

#16

Post by PTRACER »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So is this issue resolved after Portugal? Mercedes 1-2 and Aston Martin 10th.
Crazy idea, but running high ride heights at the rear, with circuits which undulate and crest so much, can cause rear end instability...Flatter circuits will benefit them again.
Developer of the 1967v3 Historic Mod for Grand Prix Legends: viewtopic.php?t=17429

King of the Race Track, Destroyer of Tyres, Breaker of Lap Records
White six
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: 3 years ago

#17

Post by White six »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So is this issue resolved after Portugal? Mercedes 1-2 and Aston Martin 10th.
Crazy idea, but running high ride heights at the rear, with circuits which undulate and crest so much, can cause rear end instability...Flatter circuits will benefit them again.
Watching the highlights, it's a great circuit to look at the cars side on at ground level.

Not noticeable difference in rake between Merc and RB . The Merc looked really high too
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#18

Post by Ruslan »

Well, it looks like this issue is back: https://www.grandprix.com/news/protests ... wolff.html

If I interpret this article correctly, it appears that the Bendy Rear Wing is needed to make the high rake designs work. As they note:

"More or less every team with a high rake has this type of wing," alleges Aston Martin team boss Otmar Szafnauer.

"We suspect they need it to compensate for the higher drag."

So, does this mean that:
1) when this is corrected, the high rake cars will be slower than the low rake cars?
2) That the only way the high rake cars worked was with a cheat, which is why Mercedes and some other teams did not pursue this design approach?
3) Because it will again unbalance the field, that this is why FIA is slow on enforcing it, as the teams are going to have address a whole lot more design changes then just a bendy wing?
4) That after the design changes that the high rake cars will start lowering their rear ends?
User avatar
XcraigX
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 2742
Joined: 8 years ago
Real Name: Craig
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34
Favourite Driver: Mario Andretti
Favourite Circuit: Spa-Francorchamps
Car(s) Currently Owned: 2014 BMW 328d

#19

Post by XcraigX »

I'm stating again that it's flexing somewhere in the floor (because it appears the entire wing including the supports are going down at speed). Perhaps the high rake design encourages/enables this action.
:trophy: 2019 GTP Accuracy Champion :trophy:
:trophy: 2021 GTP Accuracy Champion :trophy:
:trophy: 2022 Picks and Predictions Champion :trophy:
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#20

Post by Ruslan »

https://www.grandprix.com/news/furious- ... -saga.html

My interpretation of Horner's and of Vasseur's "furious" comments: The changes are really going to slow them down.
White six
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: 3 years ago

#21

Post by White six »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago https://www.grandprix.com/news/furious- ... -saga.html

My interpretation of Horner's and of Vasseur's "furious" comments: The changes are really going to slow them down.
Not looking great is it
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#22

Post by Ruslan »

So, seven races into the season, is there still a very real story concerning high-rake vs low-rake and the differing effects of the changing aerodynamic regulations on each?
White six
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: 3 years ago

#23

Post by White six »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So, seven races into the season, is there still a very real story concerning high-rake vs low-rake and the differing effects of the changing aerodynamic regulations on each?
Probably, but nobody cares any more
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
User avatar
PTRACER
Forum Administrator
Forum Administrator
Posts: 42138
Joined: 20 years ago
Real Name: Paul
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: Lotus 49
Favourite Driver: Gilles Villeneuve, James Hunt
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife
Car(s) Currently Owned: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X JDM
Contact:

#24

Post by PTRACER »

White six wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So, seven races into the season, is there still a very real story concerning high-rake vs low-rake and the differing effects of the changing aerodynamic regulations on each?
Probably, but nobody cares any more
Telling it like it is, as usual :rofl:

I thought about rake for a moment during the French GP, in a shot of the cars going up the main straight. Although Red Bull's rake is noticeably higher than anyone else's, I do think Mercedes have raised theirs slightly (1) compared to last year and maybe even compared to the start of the season. Sorry I cannot find a decent comparative shot.

2021 France
Image

2020
Image
Developer of the 1967v3 Historic Mod for Grand Prix Legends: viewtopic.php?t=17429

King of the Race Track, Destroyer of Tyres, Breaker of Lap Records
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#25

Post by Ruslan »

White six wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So, seven races into the season, is there still a very real story concerning high-rake vs low-rake and the differing effects of the changing aerodynamic regulations on each?
Probably, but nobody cares any more
I am somebody.
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#26

Post by Ruslan »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago I thought about rake for a moment during the French GP, in a shot of the cars going up the main straight. Although Red Bull's rake is noticeably higher than anyone else's, I do think Mercedes have raised theirs slightly (1) compared to last year and maybe even compared to the start of the season. Sorry I cannot find a decent comparative shot.
Yea, it does seem like they have from the pictures you have provided, and of course, it is kind of what we would expect to happen.

It does appear that Mercedes is still playing catch up.

So back to the real question: Did Ross Brawn deliberately arrange the aero-regulations to work against certain teams for the sake of improving the competition. Is this another version of the infamous 2009 race season?
Last edited by Ruslan 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 48988
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#27

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago

I am somebody.



* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Ruslan
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1742
Joined: 3 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Circuit: Monaco actually
Location: Washington, DC

#28

Post by Ruslan »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago

I am somebody.


Yea, couple of years ago I re-watched the whole series. All 17 episodes.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 48988
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#29

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Brilliant series. I watched it first time round! And if I ever see odd episodes being shown here I watch them again

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
White six
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: 3 years ago

#30

Post by White six »

PTRACER wrote: 2 years ago
White six wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago So, seven races into the season, is there still a very real story concerning high-rake vs low-rake and the differing effects of the changing aerodynamic regulations on each?
Probably, but nobody cares any more
Telling it like it is, as usual :rofl:

I thought about rake for a moment during the French GP, in a shot of the cars going up the main straight. Although Red Bull's rake is noticeably higher than anyone else's, I do think Mercedes have raised theirs slightly (1) compared to last year and maybe even compared to the start of the season. Sorry I cannot find a decent comparative shot.

2021 France
Image

2020
Image
Yeah, I mentioned back at Portimao that you couldn't see a huge difference. Mercedes been jacking it up
The board equivalent of the Jody scheckter chicane. Fast but pointless
Post Reply