F1 2021 Round 2: Emilia Romagna GP, Imola

[DoubleFart]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Kimi got a 30 second penalty, looses his points. That means Alonso gets 1 point.

Where is the consistency in thatStroll gets 5 seconds, Perez gets 10 and Kimi gets 30.

Stroll was an off track pass, so the punishment was purely to switch the positions back (as would have been ordered in the race)
Perez got 10 seconds as that's the agreed punishment, it was just convenient it happened during a scheduled pitstop.
Kimi couldn't do it as part of a pitstop, so he got 10 seconds + pitstop time.

Makes sense to me.

[Everso Biggyballies]

Kimi got a 30 second penalty, looses his points. That means Alonso gets 1 point.

Where is the consistency in thatStroll gets 5 seconds, Perez gets 10 and Kimi gets 30.

Stroll was an off track pass, so the punishment was purely to switch the positions back (as would have been ordered in the race)
Perez got 10 seconds as that's the agreed punishment, it was just convenient it happened during a scheduled pitstop.
Kimi couldn't do it as part of a pitstop, so he got 10 seconds + pitstop time.

Makes sense to me.

Yeah but yeah but yeah but..... At the time of the incident Alfa asked race control immediately whilst Kimi was recovering from his spin, well before he was at pit entry. Race control did not respond 'because they were busy' Alfa asked again straightaway because of the urgency. Race control did not respond. By which time Kimi was at the pit entrance, prepared to start from pitlane if confirmed. No word from race control so Kimi continued on track for the restart as told to by Alfa. Compounded by the fact that apparently Kimi was given the wrong (worse) restart position by race control in the first place (I repeat apparently). It is not like he deliberately flaunted the rules. (like Stroll and it seems Perez.)

The stewards are there to give instant responses and clarifications in these situations. They didnt..
I have not read the official FIA statement on the issue with their reasonings so maybe that will clarify things in more detail.

Anyway it has happened, but it just goes to show what a shambles the stewarding system is.

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

The botruss crash looks worse for Russell the more I see it . Couldn't really see any move at all from botty. The only defence I would add for Russ is that drs created a ridiculous speed differential at a dangerous part of the track

May take a while for Wolff to see it that way

that crash looked bad, at first I thought that maybe Bottas had moved to the right a bit but looking at it again it's obvious that what he did was perfectly ok. My problem with Bottas is that he shouldn't be fighting with a Williams.

Trying to come up with some sort of defense for Russell, admitting that I like him and rate him as a very good driver, I would like to point out that in those conditions (drying track), with that light, the conditions of the track can vary a lot from place to place. When the track is sided by trees the track remains damp longer than where there are no trees so when Russell hit the damp section going towards Tamburello he found himself in a much more slippery bit of tarmac than when he got out of Bottas' slipstream (he made his move at the pit exit where there are no trees and the track dries faster). On top of that, he suddenly found himself in the wet in a place where there is a rather stark change in light (again, due to the trees). So possibly he messed things up because he thought that he saw Bottas moving and since it was wet (and he was travelling much faster than Bottas due to the DRS speed differential) he made a mighty mess of things. Luckily no one was hurt. This is were my professional duties in the defense of Russell end.

I guess that Russell will not be a great fan of Imola after whet happened yesterday and what happened last year. Other than that I think that he was driving very well yesterday. A bit like young Schumi who made a very embarrasing mistake (not only did he spin his car on the main straight, but he did that right in front of everyone that matters in F1...) but after that he was going ok considering the car he has

[Cheeveer]

[DoubleFart]

I have no issue with it. It's not as though he did a Piquet v Salazaar, or Schumacher at Spa. He's just had the most adrenaline pumping moment, and he's angry. It's fine.

You know Merc have said something though...

[Everso Biggyballies]

You know Merc have said something though...

Yeah I posted on the previous page what Toto had to say about the incident, basically giving George a bollocking and reminding him he is a Mercedes driver and must remember that when racing against them.
Full post and Toto quote here: http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/forums/vi ... 85#p402585

[jimclark]

Kimi got a 30 second penalty, looses his points. That means Alonso gets 1 point.

OT, but.....
Just a quick clarification, please. I've noticed this occasionally on numerous boards.
'This side of the pond, we consider the words "lose" and "loose", verbs and adjectives respectively. Apparently not elsewhere.
Here we would say "Kimi got a 30 second penalty, loses (verb) his points." or "My shoelaces are too loose (adjective), I need to tie them tighter."
I Googled the question and came up with https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/lear ... page.shtml which confirms our use. What's the story?

[Everso Biggyballies]

Kimi got a 30 second penalty, looses his points. That means Alonso gets 1 point.

OT, but.....
Just a quick clarification, please. I've noticed this occasionally on numerous boards.
'This side of the pond, we consider the words "lose" and "loose", verbs and adjectives respectively. Apparently not elsewhere.
Here we would say "Kimi got a 30 second penalty, loses (verb) his points." or "My shoelaces are too loose (adjective), I need to tie them tighter."
I Googled the question and came up with https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/lear ... page.shtml which confirms our use. What's the story?

@jimclark I think what you have highlighted is the simple fact that a great number of our posters / members, @Cheeveer included are for want of a better word, 'foreigners' to whom English is not their first language, and as such. things that might be wrong to you and I, as in this 'loose' or 'lose' case instance here. We expect them to post in a language that is foreign to them. I think they do remarkably well.

I think we need to cut our foreign friends a bit of slack and accept that every now and again an anomaly / mistake will creep in. Perhaps think of it in this way..... how would you or I go if we were posting in a foreign forum, having to post in French, Italian, German or even Swedish. As mentioned they do well, Certainly better than I would manage if the roles were reversed and I had to post in their language..

We might not all have the same first language, but we do all share a love of motorsports. That's enough for me. I can cope with the occasional rare grammatical faux pas. A bit like I will forgive people from 'your side of the pond' for saying color or tires instead of colours and tyres!

I know you were not complaining and just asking so dont take my response the wrong way. Im just highlighting something that is not always apparent, such is the high quality of the English used by our 'foreign' colleagues.

[DoubleFart]

Considering my only Swedish language exposure is the Muppet Chef, I'll never call out Jacob or John for their language!

[jimclark]

I don't even know where Cheveer is from nor does it matter. I didn't mean to imply that. There have been a few boards where it was Brits and so often I thought it was just how it was but never asked. I finally decided to look into it. No biggy whatsoever.

Back to the question though.....is it slang or something?

[Vassago]

Toto Wolff did me a big favor calling out Russell like that The apology only confirms who is calling the shots here and Russell is by no means guaranteed to land the Merc #2 seat.

But Mercedes truly doesn't need a driver who "has a lot to learn yet". A championship-winning car is not a place to learn. If Russell still has issues in his third year at Williams then I wouldn't be surprised if Wolff picks someone else as Bottas' replacement. And I'd be totally fine with it

[Circuitmaster]

Good lad. I actually felt it was just unfortunate circumstances and didn't really blame either driver more than the other. Russell should have gone right a little earlier so that he didn't have to turn so tightly through that link, and Bottas could have kept further left. In wet conditions on a tricky part of the track, that's a racing incident for me.

And also I think we can all relate to the effect of perspective. It almost always feels like it's the other guys fault, but it can't always be the case.

The fact that George is clearly a better driver than Bottas but is still stuck in the Williams clearly added to the fire there.

[Ruslan]

Good race. This may turn into a good season. Lots and lots of errors today.

1. Verstappen - Damn near threw it off the track under the safety car. Solid win, but his main opposition was trying harder to throw the race away.

2. Hamilton - Three errors: 1) fighting for the first corner (he should have backed off), 2) losing it going around traffic, 3) and then trying to turn the car in the gravel trap, losing even more time before he backed out. Also team gave him a slow pit stop. Not his best day. On the other hand, his driving after the spin was truly impressive. He was absolutely on the tear and getting the most out of the car. It was good to watch (unless, of course, you are one of those rabid Hamilton-haters who seem to populate this board). If he had not gone off, then we probably would have been treated to a shoot-out for the lead. He had closed to within 3 seconds of Verstappen before he spun. A second shoot-out between them would have been interesting.

3. Norris - Great drive. I did not see a mistake or a foot placed wrong. One of the few drivers not to spin this day (I actually don't know who else did not make a mistake). Norris is really beginning to shine.

Old vs New: What stood out today was the driver's who had been with their team the previous year had a definite advantage over all the new drivers. Verstappen over Perez, Leclerc over Sainz, Norris over Ricciardo, Stroll over Vettel, Ocon over Alonso, etc.

All the rookies spun: Not just the Russian.

Ferrari's: It is clear that the Ferrari's are back. Apparently so are the McLarens. They are not as far from leaders as they were last year. It is going to be a good fight for 3rd, especially if Aston Martin and Alpine can get their act together.

I think Ricciardo damaged his car early in the race, although not certain. I do believe there was some problem.

[DoubleFart]

You don't have to be a Hamilton hater to be unimpressed.

Guy with the fastest car gets to restart with a freshly repaired car, uses the overly powerful drs to overtake slower cars.

That's not impressive, that's the minimum i expect.

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

Old vs New: What stood out today was the driver's who had been with their team the previous year had a definite advantage over all the new drivers. Verstappen over Perez, Leclerc over Sainz, Norris over Ricciardo, Stroll over Vettel, Ocon over Alonso, etc.

All the rookies spun: Not just the Russian.

very interesting comment, I think that what you call "old vs new" is an issue that has been going on for some years now and IMHO it's down to the lack of testing (BTW, apparently today they are still in Imola for some testing, I'll try my luck once more hoping that this time I can get a view of the cars). The situation was made worse because the weather was not ideal (damp and the track temperature was always below 20 degrees) AND the track is an old school track where making mistakes costs you big time. As you know I think that the ban on testing is absurd.

regarding the Russian, it's true that all the rookies spun but more often than not he was 2 seconds per lap slower that his (rookie) team mate, there were times when Mick managed to keep close to the other cars, the Russian never managed that

[erwin greven]

1. Verstappen - Damn near threw it off the track under the safety car. Solid win, but his main opposition was trying harder to throw the race away.

Let me turn it around: He made less errors than anyone else.

2. Hamilton - Three errors: 1) fighting for the first corner (he should have backed off), 2) losing it going around traffic, 3) and then trying to turn the car in the gravel trap, losing even more time before he backed out.

Let me add another one:
4. Fucked up his start. Within a 100m Max was beside him, while Perez was blocked by him.

On the other hand, his driving after the spin was truly impressive. He was absolutely on the tear and getting the most out of the car. It was good to watch (unless, of course, you are one of those rabid Hamilton-haters who seem to populate this board). If he had not gone off, then we probably would have been treated to a shoot-out for the lead. He had closed to within 3 seconds of Verstappen before he spun. A second shoot-out between them would have been interesting.

He must be very pleased that the crash of Bottas and Russell happened just after his spin. Also the FIA did not respond to his backwards driving of him at Tosa.
He got his lap back and his car could be repaired. Till his crash Max and Lewis were miles ahead of everybody else.