2021 F1 race thread *Round 1: Bahrain*

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Curiously Croatia could claim Andretti as their only world champion.

I doubt that he would be very pleased to be considered "Croatian". My understanding is that he considers himself American (born in Italy, from Italian parents, he lived in Italy until he was 15)

[jimclark]

Curiously Croatia could claim Andretti as their only world champion.

I doubt that he would be very pleased to be considered "Croatian". My understanding is that he considers himself American (born in Italy, from Italian parents, he lived in Italy until he was 15)

"Mario Andretti and his twin brother Aldo were born to Alvise Andretti, a farm administrator, and his wife, Rina, in Montona, Istria (now Motovun, Croatia).[8] Istria was then part of the Kingdom of Italy, but it was annexed by Yugoslavia at the end of World War II, as confirmed by the Treaty of Paris and Treaty of Osimo. The Andretti family left in 1948, during the Istrian exodus, ending up in a refugee camp in Lucca, Italy." ??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Andretti

[Everso Biggyballies]

Curiously Croatia could claim Andretti as their only world champion.

I doubt that he would be very pleased to be considered "Croatian". My understanding is that he considers himself American (born in Italy, from Italian parents, he lived in Italy until he was 15)

I think the reference to Croatia is that where Mario was born (Montona, Istria) is now part of Croatia not Italy. It was part of Italy when he was born. It was returned to Yugoslavia at the end of WW2 as part of the Allied Treaty (Treaty of Paris?). It had become part of Italy after the invasion of Yugoslavia in the 1920's. They left their home by then in Croatia in the late 1940's and AFAIK lived in I guess they were refugee type homes in Italy until obtaining visas for the US a few years later.

Certainly Mario considers himself American and he has always raced as an American. There was always a suggestion that he and his brother had raced in a Junior formula of something in Italy, but Andretti himself has said they had fabricated that story 'to look good' in their new country. Or something along those lines.

[Ruslan]

Certainly Mario considers himself American and he has always raced as an American. There was always a suggestion that he and his brother had raced in a Junior formula of something in Italy, but Andretti himself has said they had fabricated that story 'to look good' in their new country. Or something along those lines.

Yes...and yes. The two twin brothers while living in Nazareth Pennsylvania modified a 1948 Hudson and took it to the Nazareth Speedway (a half-mile dirt track) and each won their first two races in their class. That was the start of their racing career. They lied about their age, fabricated false drivers license, and lied about their experience ("they raced in Italy").

In the end, it was a guy who moved from a refugee camp in Italy at 15 (1955) to the United States and made it big here. He always considered himself American. He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1964.

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

I think the reference to Croatia is that where Mario was born (Montona, Istria) is now part of Croatia not Italy. It was part of Italy when he was born. It was returned to Yugoslavia at the end of WW2 as part of the Allied Treaty (Treaty of Paris?). It had become part of Italy after the invasion of Yugoslavia in the 1920's. They left their home by then in Croatia in the late 1940's and AFAIK lived in I guess they were refugee type homes in Italy until obtaining visas for the US a few years later.

the Pula region (which includes Montona) was never invaded by Italy in the 1920s, it was under Venetian rule for 5 centuries from 1148 onwards then it became part of the Augsburg Empire and in 1918 - as for many other parts of northern Italy that had been under Austrian rule - it was annexed to the Kingdom of Italy following Italy's defeat of Austria in WW1.

The bit of Croatia that was invaded in 1920 is the city of Rijeka (Fiume in Italian) who was a city state for 4 years. Still it wasn't part of Yugoslavia before D'Annunzio's rally, it was part of the Augsburg empire as well (the majority of its inhabitants then were Italian speaking, after most of the Italian speaking citizens were either forced to flee or killed the majority of the city is now Croatian). Rijeka is home to a very dangerous racing track, I never raced there myself but friend who used to race motorbikes did, it was considered the most dangerous race of the calendar, I remember tha the week before my friend went there for the first race a rider died after being nearly cut in two against some very dubious safety barriers on the outside of the last turn before the pit entry. Scary. But it was a very popular venue because the city is very nice

[Andy]

I think the reference to Croatia is that where Mario was born (Montona, Istria) is now part of Croatia not Italy. It was part of Italy when he was born. It was returned to Yugoslavia at the end of WW2 as part of the Allied Treaty (Treaty of Paris?). It had become part of Italy after the invasion of Yugoslavia in the 1920's. They left their home by then in Croatia in the late 1940's and AFAIK lived in I guess they were refugee type homes in Italy until obtaining visas for the US a few years later.

the Pula region (which includes Montona) was never invaded by Italy in the 1920s, it was under Venetian rule for 5 centuries from 1148 onwards then it became part of the Augsburg Empire and in 1918 - as for many other parts of northern Italy that had been under Austrian rule - it was annexed to the Kingdom of Italy following Italy's defeat of Austria in WW1.

The bit of Croatia that was invaded in 1920 is the city of Rijeka (Fiume in Italian) who was a city state for 4 years. Still it wasn't part of Yugoslavia before D'Annunzio's rally, it was part of the Augsburg empire as well (the majority of its inhabitants then were Italian speaking, after most of the Italian speaking citizens were either forced to flee or killed the majority of the city is now Croatian). Rijeka is home to a very dangerous racing track, I never raced there myself but friend who used to race motorbikes did, it was considered the most dangerous race of the calendar, I remember tha the week before my friend went there for the first race a rider died after being nearly cut in two against some very dubious safety barriers on the outside of the last turn before the pit entry. Scary. But it was a very popular venue because the city is very nice

Which of the two circuits are you talking about, please?
Opatija or the Grobnik Autodrome where Reinhold Roth suffered severe head injuries in 1990, that left him in condition of a little kid?

[P. Cornelius Scipio]

I think the reference to Croatia is that where Mario was born (Montona, Istria) is now part of Croatia not Italy. It was part of Italy when he was born. It was returned to Yugoslavia at the end of WW2 as part of the Allied Treaty (Treaty of Paris?). It had become part of Italy after the invasion of Yugoslavia in the 1920's. They left their home by then in Croatia in the late 1940's and AFAIK lived in I guess they were refugee type homes in Italy until obtaining visas for the US a few years later.

the Pula region (which includes Montona) was never invaded by Italy in the 1920s, it was under Venetian rule for 5 centuries from 1148 onwards then it became part of the Augsburg Empire and in 1918 - as for many other parts of northern Italy that had been under Austrian rule - it was annexed to the Kingdom of Italy following Italy's defeat of Austria in WW1.

The bit of Croatia that was invaded in 1920 is the city of Rijeka (Fiume in Italian) who was a city state for 4 years. Still it wasn't part of Yugoslavia before D'Annunzio's rally, it was part of the Augsburg empire as well (the majority of its inhabitants then were Italian speaking, after most of the Italian speaking citizens were either forced to flee or killed the majority of the city is now Croatian). Rijeka is home to a very dangerous racing track, I never raced there myself but friend who used to race motorbikes did, it was considered the most dangerous race of the calendar, I remember tha the week before my friend went there for the first race a rider died after being nearly cut in two against some very dubious safety barriers on the outside of the last turn before the pit entry. Scary. But it was a very popular venue because the city is very nice

Which of the two circuits are you talking about, please?
Opatija or the Grobnik Autodrome where Reinhold Roth suffered severe head injuries in 1990, that left him in condition of a little kid?

you ask me a difficult question because I didn't realise there were 2 tracks... I refer to a rather old circuit, my friend used to race there in the early 90s. Besides ins't Opatija a (quite beautiful) seaside little town? I think that I've been in Opatija (Abbazia?) once when I was yachting with my dad in Croatia (even if our usual landing port for our holydays on the Croatian coast was Mali Losinj, we used to sail along the islands further south, sometimes getting as far as Greece), I didn't know that there was a racing track there

[erwin greven]

It has to be Opatija (also known as Preluk). It was a street course that has been rejected by the FIM as being too dangerous to race on.
The safety of the track was already being discussed in the late 60's.

[Andy]

I think the reference to Croatia is that where Mario was born (Montona, Istria) is now part of Croatia not Italy. It was part of Italy when he was born. It was returned to Yugoslavia at the end of WW2 as part of the Allied Treaty (Treaty of Paris?). It had become part of Italy after the invasion of Yugoslavia in the 1920's. They left their home by then in Croatia in the late 1940's and AFAIK lived in I guess they were refugee type homes in Italy until obtaining visas for the US a few years later.

the Pula region (which includes Montona) was never invaded by Italy in the 1920s, it was under Venetian rule for 5 centuries from 1148 onwards then it became part of the Augsburg Empire and in 1918 - as for many other parts of northern Italy that had been under Austrian rule - it was annexed to the Kingdom of Italy following Italy's defeat of Austria in WW1.

The bit of Croatia that was invaded in 1920 is the city of Rijeka (Fiume in Italian) who was a city state for 4 years. Still it wasn't part of Yugoslavia before D'Annunzio's rally, it was part of the Augsburg empire as well (the majority of its inhabitants then were Italian speaking, after most of the Italian speaking citizens were either forced to flee or killed the majority of the city is now Croatian). Rijeka is home to a very dangerous racing track, I never raced there myself but friend who used to race motorbikes did, it was considered the most dangerous race of the calendar, I remember tha the week before my friend went there for the first race a rider died after being nearly cut in two against some very dubious safety barriers on the outside of the last turn before the pit entry. Scary. But it was a very popular venue because the city is very nice

Which of the two circuits are you talking about, please?
Opatija or the Grobnik Autodrome where Reinhold Roth suffered severe head injuries in 1990, that left him in condition of a little kid?

you ask me a difficult question because I didn't realise there were 2 tracks... I refer to a rather old circuit, my friend used to race there in the early 90s. Besides ins't Opatija a (quite beautiful) seaside little town? I think that I've been in Opatija (Abbazia?) once when I was yachting with my dad in Croatia (even if our usual landing port for our holydays on the Croatian coast was Mali Losinj, we used to sail along the islands further south, sometimes getting as far as Greece), I didn't know that there was a racing track there

'It would be the Grobnik Autodrome then what you're referring to (early 90s), as the Opatija road race was already discontinued in mid to late 70s due to safety reasons as Erwin said already. I know that some of my mates, mainly real road racers, still go to Grobnik for pre- and mid-season testing. Popular circuit for that matter, but I haven't heard about it being used by racing series' since mid 90s.

[erwin greven]

Opatija Circuit in Croatia




Grobnik Automotodrom