Sprint races approved and happening in 2021. Balls.

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Sprint races approved and happening in 2021. Balls.

#1

Post by PTRACER »

Just seems to be something lingering in the air at the moment, some talk of having sprint races (to replace qualifying?) at certain circuits.

Drivers are supposedly "lukewarm" about the idea and so am I. It's not going to happen is it?
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#2

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Im just pretending its not happening. To me its just not F1. Two points paying GP races per weekend. It will further mess with the relevance of the historical points and race winners when a race win or even a point was an honour and a great achievment. Now the drivers near enough get a point for spelling their name right, and the thought of it just goes against the grain. It is bad enough when one team dominates for year after year without the prospect of that being doubled. (OK I know they are talking of trialling it is a few races but)

I actually quite enjoy the current qualifying. We see cars and drivers in Q3 absolutely on the limit. Replacing it with a sprint race just seems wrong on so many fronts.

Im hoping the whole thought process of sprint/qualifying races will just go away never to be thought of again.

To me the problem with F1 is not the format of it, it is the bloody cars. Get the cars right and it will be fine. Take al the bloody downforce away and bring back mechanical grip from minimal wings. Not just the same me too copy cars that I would not know the difference between if they were all painted plain with no identifying sponsor livery.

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#3

Post by Aty »

For traditionalists (I think I am one) this is rather disturbing development.

I am tired of FiA/Commercial tossing us a bone from time to time (they call it inventions, I call it gimmicks), in lieu of actually designing cars, which can overtake, and all of that without need for an armada of engineers sitting by track side, telling driver what to do.
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#4

Post by MonteCristo »

The proposal to have qualifying on Friday, followed by race 1 on Saturday to set the grid for race 2 on Sunday will just result in Hamilton getting pole on Friday, winning Saturday, and winning Sunday.
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#5

Post by PTRACER »

I am absolutely fine with using the same format we have used for the past XX years. I know that modern culture has a short attention span and thinks it needs to throw out the old and replace it with the new, but this is not one of those times.
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#6

Post by Aty »

It is mystery why anyone would think it's not enough MB wins just about every race, and now they also need to add some more on Saturdays. If I didn't hate them so far, this however would do it.
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#7

Post by MonteCristo »

PTRACER wrote: 3 years ago I am absolutely fine with using the same format we have used for the past XX years. I know that modern culture has a short attention span and thinks it needs to throw out the old and replace it with the new, but this is not one of those times.
It's clearly not for excitement purposes though, otherwise they would have some sort of reverse grid race system (reverse championship order? reverse previous race?).

This format of still having qualifying to set the grid is simply to try to double their viewers. I assume next to nobody watches on Friday for practice, but a few more watch qualifying on Saturday. So make qualifying on Friday. Viewers go up.

But not that many people watch qualifying on Saturday compared to the race on Sunday, so make Saturday a race. Viewers go up.

Sunday stays the same, and they've close to double their eyeballs over a weekend and Liberty get to charge more for track side sponsorship that they control. Maybe tracks would get more attendees on a Saturday for a race, so Liberty can charge more for sanctioning fees.

You can see their logic.

But it doesn't change the fact that it's royally fucked, and I'm about a bee's dick away from walking from F1. I might hang in there to see what happens in 2022, but I'm not sure.
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#8

Post by PTRACER »

MonteCristo wrote: 3 years ago This format of still having qualifying to set the grid is simply to try to double their viewers. I assume next to nobody watches on Friday for practice, but a few more watch qualifying on Saturday. So make qualifying on Friday. Viewers go up.

But not that many people watch qualifying on Saturday compared to the race on Sunday, so make Saturday a race. Viewers go up.
That would make sense, but by how much could they increase? With 23 races a year and each event requiring 1.5-2 hours to watch, it's just asking us to invest too much time, both on Saturday and Sunday, for half the weekends of the entire year.

Presumably most people are working on Fridays (if you don't have a well-paid job with disposal income then you can't even afford to watch F1 on TV) and qualifying/the race is typically broadcast in the middle of the day when most people would probably rather be out doing something else, perhaps with their families. And if there is only one driver winning the race time after time, then why would anyone give up their free time for it?

There are so many other things they could do.
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#9

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I fear that it will further diminish the prestige of a GP win in the same way as giving points out like confetti has diminished what used to be a genuine achievement. Plus of course the potential boredom factor of it becoming a Mercedes whitewash, thus further compounding the issues of dominance.

I would be happier to see an extra race if it was to be contested by up and coming / reserve drivers in one of the cars and make it a non points race to keep it fair. Everyone always talks of the lack of mileage for junior drivers. Main drivers could stand down for a sprint race in the same way as they already do for FP1.

Of course a totally different challenge will be how do they monitor the engine lifing where they get 3 or whatever the number is now engines per season? Will they give extra engines for the extra mileage. We all know teams keep the engined turned down in practice to reduce engine wear and thus keep a lid on costs. Does that mean the sprint races will be in detuned mode for the same reasons?

I dont have a problem with the way it is formatted now with an hours qualy of a Saturday, a 300k race on the Sunday and a bit of practice. I dont want to be sitting watching qualy on Friday and races Saturday and Sunday. Especially given the times some of the races are on.

If it aint broke dont fix it springs to mind.
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#10

Post by MonteCristo »

PTRACER wrote: 3 years ago
MonteCristo wrote: 3 years ago This format of still having qualifying to set the grid is simply to try to double their viewers. I assume next to nobody watches on Friday for practice, but a few more watch qualifying on Saturday. So make qualifying on Friday. Viewers go up.

But not that many people watch qualifying on Saturday compared to the race on Sunday, so make Saturday a race. Viewers go up.
That would make sense, but by how much could they increase? With 23 races a year and each event requiring 1.5-2 hours to watch, it's just asking us to invest too much time, both on Saturday and Sunday, for half the weekends of the entire year.

Presumably most people are working on Fridays (if you don't have a well-paid job with disposal income then you can't even afford to watch F1 on TV) and qualifying/the race is typically broadcast in the middle of the day when most people would probably rather be out doing something else, perhaps with their families. And if there is only one driver winning the race time after time, then why would anyone give up their free time for it?

There are so many other things they could do.
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 3 years ago I fear that it will further diminish the prestige of a GP win in the same way as giving points out like confetti has diminished what used to be a genuine achievement. Plus of course the potential boredom factor of it becoming a Mercedes whitewash, thus further compounding the issues of dominance.

That's the thing, and how it could backfire.

There's other stuff to do for most people, so you invest your time into whatever is the most premium, valuable use of your time.

So why bother to even watch on Sunday, if it matters less?

I used to watch Supercars. But then they added sprint races, diluting the product. I don't bother watching beyond a couple of hours a year anymore because I feel like none of it matters.

I could easily see that happening to F1. Why fuck up my sleep for twice as much each year?
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#11

Post by Aty »

Is sprint race intended with the same equipment, or teams will be allowed to execute a season with more engines? I am lost over this issue. I am assuming reliability calculations were done initially on some number of races with safety factor. Then races began to add up, and are planned, so I hear, to go up to 25 races per year, yet engines remain the same.
Now add sprint races, and engines, probably intended for some 20 races - are suppose to survive loading increases without problems?

Obviously I doubt that MB or anyone else initially planned to run 50+ races on the same material. Yes 50, if we would have 25 races and 25 sprint qualifications. Duty cycle will take some serious beating under this novel commercial program. Is this going to end up with situation when someone from back (Olivier Panis) wins a race again, or engine customers will have to fork out some cash to pay for equipment changes? Is Liberty hoping that automakers will support this financial proposition without being compensated?
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#12

Post by PTRACER »

MonteCristo wrote: 3 years ago I used to watch Supercars. But then they added sprint races, diluting the product. I don't bother watching beyond a couple of hours a year anymore because I feel like none of it matters.
Sprint and feature races seemed a great addition to the TOCA series back in the 90s. One race with pitstops, the other without. But since F1 cars only pit for a 2 second stop for tyres, and no fuel, I don't see the necessity in F1 having such a format.
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#13

Post by XcraigX »

I agree. The sprint races will be a waste of time and will dilute the format.
Make the Sunday race better by being more competitive (change the cars) and there is no need to mess about with the other sessions.
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#14

Post by MonteCristo »

XcraigX wrote: 3 years ago I agree. The sprint races will be a waste of time and will dilute the format.
Make the Sunday race better by being more competitive (change the cars) and there is no need to mess about with the other sessions.
What do you mean by change the cars?

Removing the awful parc ferme rules?
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#15

Post by XcraigX »

MonteCristo wrote: 3 years ago
XcraigX wrote: 3 years ago I agree. The sprint races will be a waste of time and will dilute the format.
Make the Sunday race better by being more competitive (change the cars) and there is no need to mess about with the other sessions.
What do you mean by change the cars?

Removing the awful parc ferme rules?
Re-design them so they can pass without DRS. Definitely not another gimmick.
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