Sprint races approved and happening in 2021. Balls.

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#46

Post by Mawerick »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Picci wrote: 2 years agoThe top teams could technically end up colluding and agreeing not to pass each other so that they can get to Sunday without issues.
This is true. However, it would create an opportunity for backmarkers to go hell-bent for leather and score some points.
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#47

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The plan is to run it for only three races this year. They might as well and see how it works. I not particularly supportive of this idea, but I have no objection to them testing it.
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#48

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Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago The plan is to run it for only three races this year. They might as well and see how it works. I not particularly supportive of this idea, but I have no objection to them testing it.
And they even said if it successful, it won't happen at EVERY race. It ruins the 'purity' of F1 even more and I don't need it...
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#49

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The first two races this year we particularly good but this won’t change my opinion that f1 is in one of its darkest era. Way past of glory of the golden age but even from the late 90s when they used the v10.
Sprint races for qualifying are a clear attempt to increase the return of image of those well known historic circuit which give the better audience. Basically it s done to increase friday tv viewvers. People would not care watching that if it was in sochi but given it is in monza the prestige of the event will ensure more viewers. Personally i am quite curios to see how it will work. I am an f1 purist as many of you but the turbo era has brought disillusion in me.
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#50

Post by Michael Ferner »

Aty wrote: 2 years ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago Confused ramblings.
Elaborate, please.
Oh dear, where to start? Does the author want sport, like he says in the first paragraph, or entertainment like he hints at in the next two (and later on)? Then, his speculation about what the teams will do in the future shows a lack of knowledge or understanding, as do his (rather funny, I thought) ramblings about the viability of pit stops on long and short circuits. Also, his talk about a format that "has been working fine for more than 70 years" - what format? I have stopped watching F1 only twenty years ago, and its "format" has changed way out of recognition many times over even in that short time! Same with his "tradition that is even older than the Formula One World Championship", what would that be? Qualifying? Nonsense. It's an attempt to impose modern concepts on the past, not the other way round. The poor guy just wants to keep his pole position statistics nice and tidy, that's all - reading it was a waste of time, and now I had to do it a second time because (thankfully) I had already forgotten all about it, thank you. :annoyed:
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#51

Post by Aty »

Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago
Aty wrote: 2 years ago
Michael Ferner wrote: 2 years ago Confused ramblings.
Elaborate, please.
Oh dear, where to start? Does the author want sport, like he says in the first paragraph, or entertainment like he hints at in the next two (and later on)? Then, his speculation about what the teams will do in the future shows a lack of knowledge or understanding, as do his (rather funny, I thought) ramblings about the viability of pit stops on long and short circuits. Also, his talk about a format that "has been working fine for more than 70 years" - what format? I have stopped watching F1 only twenty years ago, and its "format" has changed way out of recognition many times over even in that short time! Same with his "tradition that is even older than the Formula One World Championship", what would that be? Qualifying? Nonsense. It's an attempt to impose modern concepts on the past, not the other way round. The poor guy just wants to keep his pole position statistics nice and tidy, that's all - reading it was a waste of time, and now I had to do it a second time because (thankfully) I had already forgotten all about it, thank you. :annoyed:
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#52

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Things to help us understand the ins and outs of the Sprint race weekends....

I know I was a bit confused about the exact format of the Sprint race F1 weekends......What parts are retained, what's not, pit stops, tyre allocations, damage incurred, DNF's, pointscoring etc when the Sprint race idea is used, and when I read this article on Autosport I understood it all, so thought that knowing most have limited access to Autosport that I would quote it here so all can be informed and understand it fully.

As we know Sprint races have been confirmed for three races in the 2021 Formula 1 season,
..... the first of which is scheduled to take place during the British Grand Prix at Silverstone.

The second and third sprint race venues haven’t been announced yet, the understanding is that there will be two sprint races in Europe and one at a flyaway event. With Silverstone confirmed as one of the European races, it’s thought that the Italian Grand Prix weekend in September will host the other European sprint race. The third sprint race has been rumoured to be the Brazilian Grand Prix in November.

F1's sprint qualifying races: How does it work and when is it happening?

How does F1’s sprint qualifying work?

Sprint qualifying races will be run over 100km (down from the usual 305km), and will take around 25-30 minutes. The starting order for the sprint race will be decided by a traditional qualifying session on the Friday, while the results of the sprint race will determine the starting order for Sunday’s race.

What is the sprint race weekend format?

Weekends with sprint races will have different timetables to normal race weekends. Friday changes mean that the new-for-2021 format of two one-hour free practice sessions – reduced from two 90-minute session used last year – will swap to just a single one-hour practice session followed by the ‘traditional’ three-part qualifying knockout format.

On Saturday the familiar one-hour final practice session remains in place in the morning, but qualifying is replaced by a sprint race. Sunday remains the same though, with just the F1 grand prix in the afternoon (or evening if it is a night race).

The sprint races themselves will be run over 100km, with the full-length races staying at 305km or 260km for Monaco.
There will be no mandatory pitstops, though drivers will be able to enter the pits should they want to.

The sprint race weekend format will be:

Friday morning – 60-minute Free Practice 1
Friday afternoon – Q1, Q2, Q3 sessions to order the starting grid for the sprint race qualifying
Saturday morning – 60-minute Free Practice 2
Saturday afternoon – 100km sprint race qualifying
Sunday – Full grand prix race

The timetable for the British Grand Prix, the first GP to hold a sprint race, puts both the free practice sessions in the afternoon, though it’s unclear whether this is just for this race or if it will be used at others.

In the event of wet conditions:

Friday
FP1: 2:30pm - 3:30pm
Qualifying: 6pm - 7pm
Saturday
FP2: 12pm - 1pm
Sprint qualifying: 4:30pm - 5pm
Sunday
Race: 3pm

Rules around tyres are also changing.

In Friday’s first practice each driver can only use two sets of tyres, while the Friday qualifying session will provide drivers with five soft tyres sets. After that teams will use these options for tyres for the remainder of the weekend:

One set of tyres for Saturday’s practice session - teams decide which compound

One set for the sprint race - teams decide which compound

Two remaining sets of tyres for the grand prix, with teams able to choose which compound to start on

Three sets of wet tyres and four sets of intermediate tyres will be available at the start of the event. If FP1 or qualifying is wet, teams will receive an additional set of intermediates but must return a used intermediate set prior to the sprint race. If the sprint qualifying is wet, teams may return one set of used wet or intermediates after – which will then be replaced with a new set of intermediates. There will be a maximum of nine sets of wets and intermediates in total.

Will drivers and teams score points for the sprint races?

Points will be awarded for the sprint race, but only to the top three finishers. First place scores three points, second place scores two points, and third place scores one point. Unlike the full-length race on Sunday there will be no podiums for sprint races, however the winner will receive a trophy in parc ferme (similar to how the polesitter gets a miniature Pirelli tyre for qualifying first).

What will happen if a driver doesn’t finish a sprint race?

While there are no clear answers to this until the FIA publishes the full sporting regulations on the sprint race qualifying, one assumption would be that a driver who doesn’t finish the sprint race would have to start the grand prix in the position they would be ordered in for the final classification of the sprint race. For example, if a driver fails to finish the race and they were the first one to retire or did not start the sprint race, they would start Sunday’s grand prix from the back of the grid (much in the same way that a driver who crashes out of qualifying would start from the back of the grid).

What happens if a car gets damaged?

To offset the cost of sprint races a package worth around $500,000 for the three events has been agreed with teams. In addition to this payment there’s also a compensation scheme for teams who suffer damage during sprint race qualifying, which should ensure that a driver who damages their car on Saturday should still be able to continue on Sunday (much as they would if they crashed out of qualifying on a normal race weekend). Outside of the monetary aspect, if a car suffers damage during a sprint race then teams will have to replace the broken parts with like-for-like parts. This is because the cars enter parc ferme conditions – the point at which major changes can no longer be made – when they enter qualifying on Friday.

Will sprint races be used in the future in F1?

It’s unclear whether sprint races will be continued beyond the three planned for the 2021 season. If the races are a success then they may well be continued into the 2022 season and beyond, though F1 does not intent to run them at every race. However there’s a chance that, if drivers, teams or fans don’t enjoy the new format, sprint races could be dropped. During the 2016 F1 season, for example, the controversial “elimination qualifying” format – in which every 90 seconds of qualifying the slowest car was eliminated – was dropped after two rounds following a backlash from drivers, teams and fans.

What have drivers said about sprint races?

Reaction to the sprint races has been largely positive, with drivers and teams excited about the new format.

Seven-time world champion Lewis Hamilton said he likes “that they are being open-minded and making changes”, and that he hopes the series will “learn lots on how we can deploy better races moving forwards.”

Ferrari’s Charles Leclerc is very familiar with sprint races, having taken part in them during his time in Formula 2. He said that he’s “quite happy that we are trying this and it’s good that we have three grands prix where we will try this”, while rookie Mick Schumacher, who only made the jump from F2 to F1 this year, knows the extra difficulty it will bring. “I think it’s going to be very tough for the teams, especially if there are any reliability issues or even some accidents or something, so that’s going to be very tough”
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-sp ... k/6499590/

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#53

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ross Brawn tells how the future of Sprint races / their success will be judged....

We all know now that there will be 3 races this year where the grid will be set by the results of a Sprint race on the Saturday. (With qualifying held on Friday to determine the starting grid for the sprint race.

Apparently promoters have been knocking Liberty's door down wanting to have a Sprint race for their event next year.....
Anyway Ross Brawn had announced how the Sprint races held this year will be evaluated before any future decisions are made.
The first of these Sprint races will be at Silverstone in just over a month from now. Two others are planned but as yet not confirmed although I believe Monza will be one of them.

Brawn has said that if the concept is proven to be popular with teams fans and promoters alike and therefore a success we could be looking at 6 events with 'Sprint races' in 2022.
Formula 1 refers to these three events as a trial of a new format which, if it is deemed successful, may be rolled out at further events next year. But there is an obvious financial case for introducing Sprint races, making it hard to imagine this year’s three races won’t be the first of many.

When Liberty Media announced its first quarter earnings last month, the approval of the Sprint race format was highlighted alongside other key financial developments such as the new Miami Grand Prix race deal and the renewal of a major sponsor contract. The new format has come into existence for economic reasons, not sporting ones.

Yesterday Formula 1’s motorsport director Ross Brawn said the sport will consider feedback from promoters and broadcasters as well as fans when considering whether to hold more Sprint races in 2022.

“Certainly we’ve had a lot of promoters say they would like to have the Sprint as part of their package going forward. And, of course, in this commercial world that’s something can be negotiated with promoters so that the teams share the benefits of a more complete weekend.

“In terms of measuring it, we have our own internal group now that measure all the various parameters and do surveys of fans, avid fans, casual fans, all the different categories of fans.

“We study the social media response. There’s a whole fleet of studies that are done in our normal racing season and we get lots of feedback on what are popular events, what are popular races, how fans are reacting to different incidents in the races and so on. They’ll be looking at this quite intensely to study what response we get and we can make a judgement.”

Brawn admitted there will be a “novelty value” to take into account for the first Sprint race at Silverstone in July. “What we’ve got to do is make sure that engagement we get from the first event, we carry on and we build on the subsequent event.

“So there will be a lot of work behind the scenes to analyse how this works and then also how we build a commercial model that helps. Because we have to advertise this, there’s going to be costs for the teams, there’s going to be costs for Formula 1 to do this. And we need to make sure that everything ends up net positive.”

The support of the teams will also be necessary if Sprint races are to continue, as the regulations will have to be approved for 2022. “Next year we will need completely new agreements,” Brawn confirmed. “There’s nothing in place at all for next year and it will have to go through the same governance procedure that happened this year.”

In order to secure the teams’ support for the trial this year, Formula 1 agreed to pay compensation for damage incurred in Sprint races. Brawn hopes teams will be happy to continue with the format next year without it.

“Of course there’s the commercial aspect to this,” he says. “The teams want to see where the commercial benefits come from this initiative. And this year Formula 1 has helped this move along because we think it’s important.

“Obviously, in the future, we want it to stand on its own two feet and I think with some certainty as early as possible for next year, we can find commercial benefits, sponsors, partners who want to be involved in the Sprint.”

It’s also clear that assessing the success of Sprint races does not mean deciding the format is suitable for every round of the world championship. “We don’t see it as a format that will be at every race,” Brawn explained. “We think it will be a more suitable format for some of the events, some of the races.

“It helps broadcasters, because they have content on all three days, really solid content. It helps promoters because they’ve got more exciting events going on both on Friday and Saturday. So there’s lots of wins in this.

“What we don’t know is how the dynamic of a race weekend will play out. The first event’s Silverstone, then we’re doing Monza. I think as the teams get into it, it will change because once they’ve had the experience of Silverstone no doubt they’ll change their the way they operate for Monza.” The third Sprint race will likely take place at the Circuit of the Americas or Interlagos.
Assuming the trial is deemed a success, the 2022 F1 season could feature twice as many Sprint races, says Brawn.

“We can see a scenario where maybe there’s half-a-dozen events next year where this is part of the format. It could even extend from there.

“Who knows what would be the ideal number? I think that’s something we’ve got to discuss and debate when we get a feeling for how it works and how successful it is.”
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#54

Post by Ruslan »

Well, part of problem goes back to Bernie and Max making the decision to get rid of Friday qualifying. In the good old days, people felt a need to get a decent banker or security qualifying lap in on Friday just in case. So Friday morning practice actually had some purpose, and Friday afternoon qualifying had some meaning (although they were usually eclipsed by Saturday's team). Still, they ran in anger in Friday. This made going to a Grand Prix for all three days meaningful. Now...hell, you can skip Friday. The single day qualifying format has kind of undermined the "three-day" format.

It does help the promoters to have more customers show up on Friday. Not surprised they are clamoring to get their sprint races.
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#55

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago Well, part of problem goes back to Bernie and Max making the decision to get rid of Friday qualifying. In the good old days, people felt a need to get a decent banker or security qualifying lap in on Friday just in case. So Friday morning practice actually had some purpose, and Friday afternoon qualifying had some meaning (although they were usually eclipsed by Saturday's team). Still, they ran in anger in Friday. This made going to a Grand Prix for all three days meaningful. Now...hell, you can skip Friday. The single day qualifying format has kind of undermined the "three-day" format.

It does help the promoters to have more customers show up on Friday. Not surprised they are clamoring to get their sprint races.
Hell, i'm old enough to have been to GP's when they were a 4 day format with unofficial practice on a Thursday, and maybe Friday morning. I think Friday afternoon practice was called official practice back then. There was another "official practice'' on Saturday . I think we called the official practice on the Friday and Saturday qualifying.... on the Saturday session they would roll out the qualifying tyres and engines in the original turbo days. (I may be wrong about the qualy being referred to as official practice... it could be that unofficial practice on Thursday was untimed whereas Friday morning official practice was timed? (@Michael Ferner will remember I am sure)

Hehehe we would turn up on the Wednesday night or Thursday morning in a Transit van full of scaffolding and 'provisions', set up a scaffolding grandstand and then sleep in the Transit for the weekend. Happy days.

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#56

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Can't wait for typhoon Terri to come in and wipe out all of Friday and Saturdays running.
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#57

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Jean Todt opposed to Sprint race qualifying.....

FIA president Jean Todt says he's not a fan of Formula 1's sprint qualifying format.
Todt believes that the sport doesn't need the novelty of a Saturday sprint, but he's willing to give the new format a go, believing that there's nothing to be lost by experimenting.

I think that is where I sit on it. Initially I was horrified at the concept, but have mellowed a bit in terms of it being experimental. One aspect I will not change my mind on is the awarding of points, regardless of the minimal numbers. To me that will only increase the points gap from the likes of Mercedes to "the rest". It just means more points for the quickest teams.

Anyway, this is what JT had to say of the concept.
"Number one, we don't call that a race," Todt said at the French GP. "I had part of the responsibility of not calling that a race. For me the race is on Sunday. If you ask me if I'm a big fan of that, the answer is no.

"I don't think F1 needs it. But on the other side, if people want to try something, it's not going to hurt the race on Sunday. It will be a different way of having a starting grid on Sunday. So it costs to nothing to try.

"I'm curious to see what will come out. But I'm sure that it will not damage the race on Sunday. People may say it was more interesting on Saturday than on Sunday, but that's not too big a risk for the image and for the credibility of the of the championship."
One thing Todt did mention and nothing to do with the Sprint format, is the efforts Liberty put in to ensure we got a full (ish) calendar last year and the measures it took to ensure that we had something to watch during the ongoing pandemic. I must confess that given the prognosis after the early races were cancelled last year I was impressed with what we ended up with in the circumstances. Im not a fan of double headers but they are better than nothing is the way I look at it. I did enjoy the use of non traditional circuits. As I mentioned it is off topic but adding it because it is part of his interview
"We all know that we are going through a difficult time," said Todt. "And I think the job everybody has been contributing to make all that happening is absolutely remarkable.

"I usually say that it's in difficult times that you see the strength together, and I think it has been the result of a combination since we restarted the championship last July, almost one year ago.

"This week, we should not be should not have been here, incidentally, it should have been next week. We are going to face three grands prix in a row. Every time it has been a problem, a solution has been found."

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#58

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

OK Quiz time

When we have Sprint race format weekends....

Who would have thought the person fastest in Fridays Official Qualifying would have pole position?

How many of you put.your hands up? (Apart from me.) I ut my hand u. To me the bloke who qualifies fastest gets pole position.

All those who thought the same, we are all wrong. That is also what Ross Brawn said when this whole concept was spoken of. So he was wrong as well.

But after Ross told us that fastest in qualy was ole, as usual, the wise men at the FIA and Liberty got their heads together and decided No. No the person who gets pole is the person who wins the sprint race. No he isnt classed as a race winner, even though he won the race, and might not have been the fastest in qualifying.

Actually I am glad the Sprint race winner is not classed as a race winner. After all it is not a proper race. But I think fastest in qualifying should be pole. I guess he will just have provisional pole.

Seriously, I can see their reasoning. But why the about face?

So we have not had a point for pole before. Ever. But now you get 3 points for pole. Even if you did not qualify fastest.
And 2 points if you nearly got.pole.
Or one point if you nearly got on the front row. :rockedover: :nuts: :sarcasm:

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#59

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I get that they didn't give points to pole before, but I suspect the logic is that if it just determined the grid and didn't give a points reward, the drivers may not fight for position quite as fiercely?

Whether I agree and whether it messes with the integrity of the sport, not sure. But I understand the desire to try new things so.. bring it. If it sucks, hopefully they'll cut it out.
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#60

Post by Circuitmaster »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 2 years ago OK Quiz time

When we have Sprint race format weekends....

Who would have thought the person fastest in Fridays Official Qualifying would have pole position?

How many of you put.your hands up? (Apart from me.) I ut my hand u. To me the bloke who qualifies fastest gets pole position.

All those who thought the same, we are all wrong. That is also what Ross Brawn said when this whole concept was spoken of. So he was wrong as well.

But after Ross told us that fastest in qualy was ole, as usual, the wise men at the FIA and Liberty got their heads together and decided No. No the person who gets pole is the person who wins the sprint race.
I hate to bring this up but.. you yourself posted this explanation on page 2 of this thread 😉:

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#61

Post by MonteCristo »

"And with a time of 45 minutes and 34 seconds, please welcome your pole position winner, Lewis Hamilton!"
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