Driving the Red Bull

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Ruslan
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#31

Post by Ruslan »

Bottom post of the previous page:

Aty wrote: 3 years ago There is actually more organic way how to cut cost and improve competetivness without needing to deploy hordes of accountants. Why not adopt it? Is it too simple for the bloated F1 mind to issue simple tech specs?
So what is that way?
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#32

Post by Aty »

Ruslan wrote: 3 years ago
Aty wrote: 3 years ago There is actually more organic way how to cut cost and improve competetivness without needing to deploy hordes of accountants. Why not adopt it? Is it too simple for the bloated F1 mind to issue simple tech specs?
So what is that way?
Built a cheaper racing car, and forget about restrictions and budgets. Technical specs should formulate framework for a product of certain characteristics, which shall be relatively acceptable to at least 2/3 of teams. Moreover, don't worry much about side research. Creativity should not be chocked to death. There is such thing when ROI finds its limits. A wheel is round and it will stay that way regardless how many MM any team spends on it. That sort of thing.

Teams want to build A380, and of course such plane comes with a price. Cannot afford it? So, don't built one. Simple as that.

People must stop pretending they know what's the good budget number which will produce a fantastic racing car at reasonable cost. In reality, it is not a fiscal value which will lead you to it, but very sophisticated, engineering specs, that's the answer.

I have some feeling that cars in near future will follow this philosophy I have outlined in here. Whether F1 get subsequently rid of restrictions and budgetary stipulations, that's another matter. I think they should.
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#33

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I don't know if this is a good "Red Bull thread" but it was the first one I found, so.....

Article from Jaime Alguersuari on Red Bull: https://www.grandprix.com/news/former-f ... endly.html

Highlights:
1. Helmut Marko typically yells and screams at drivers, but he actually had a good relationship with him.
2. Christian Horner and Adrian Newey are cold fish.

Oh yea, and he want cars with little grip, less downforce and aspirated engines.
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#34

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Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I don't know if this is a good "Red Bull thread" but it was the first one I found, so.....

Article from Jaime Alguersuari on Red Bull: https://www.grandprix.com/news/former-f ... endly.html

Highlights:
1. Helmut Marko typically yells and screams at drivers, but he actually had a good relationship with him.
2. Christian Horner and Adrian Newey are cold fish.

Oh yea, and he want cars with little grip, less downforce and aspirated engines.
Follow-up article that just reinforces everything I believe about Helmut Marko. Summation: Alguersuari is still having nightmares about Helmut Marko:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/axed-red ... mares.html
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#35

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 1 year ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I don't know if this is a good "Red Bull thread" but it was the first one I found, so.....

Article from Jaime Alguersuari on Red Bull: https://www.grandprix.com/news/former-f ... endly.html

Highlights:
1. Helmut Marko typically yells and screams at drivers, but he actually had a good relationship with him.
2. Christian Horner and Adrian Newey are cold fish.

Oh yea, and he want cars with little grip, less downforce and aspirated engines.
Follow-up article that just reinforces everything I believe about Helmut Marko. Summation: Alguersuari is still having nightmares about Helmut Marko:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/axed-red ... mares.html
I found those two articles, or at least the comments by Algersuari quite conflicted.

In the first article he talks of a good relationship with Marko despite the screaming matches and 'communication difficulties' he mentioned.
"I tried to explain things calmly but if a person is like a wall, the sound just comes back at you."

However, Alguersuari said he actually had a good relationship with Marko, and is "grateful" both to him and Red Bull for the opportunity to race in Formula 1.
Twelve months later he is talking differently ....
.....he still has nightmares about Dr Helmut Marko.

Jaime Alguersuari was left disillusioned with motor racing altogether after he was dumped by the energy drink company's F1 program.
I understand he had a bad situation at Red Bull, but at the end of the day he only beat Buemi, himself no great example of a driver with a future once. He never finished a race higher than 7th. In the end a combination of events saw his demise.... Webber having his contract extendied and not. leaving Red Bull for 2012 as expected, plus the arrival of. Danny Ric and Vergne. Red Bull / Toro Rosso saw more potential in them. The Red Bull Junior Programme has never been seen as anything other than difficult.

Is it I wonder something to do with his age.... he was the youngest ever driver to enter F1 when he started, eclipsing Thackwells 30 year record. Was he in his head in a position where he had made and thought the future guaranteed?

As for his relationship with Horner and Newey, Horner is Red Bull TP, not Torro Rosso. I would have thought JA's point of contact was more Tost, TP at Torro Rosso. Perhaps Jaime in his frustration made a pest of himself in the eyes of Horner who was more focussed on Red Bull. As mentioned in the first two years at STR were not great for Jaime in terms of showing to be the next Seb or Max.

Bear in mind Vettel had gone from walking into STR mid one season to winning a race and becoming a World Champion in the space of a couple of years. Vettel set the bar very high for any Juniors following into STR...His was a passage that would leave expectations with management perhaps artificially high, and to a 19year old Junior of an easy ride. (If Seb can do it so can I). Sadly Jaime was no Vettel talentwise.

At the end of the day any teenager/ early twenties guy in F1 is going to have to face knocks and needs to be emotionally strong. Perhaps stronger than Jaime was. :idunno:

As mentioned already, the Red Bull Junior programme has been fraught with disappointed Juniors and has led to many casualties of which Jaime is just one. Im sure it (the RB group) is a highly toxic environment unless your name is Max or Sebastian. Maybe the reality of F1 and the expectations post Vettel was just too much for Jaime.

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#36

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I love how you're dismissing Buemi, yet talking up de Vries in the other thread. Buemi has done all Nyck has done and more.

NdV - 8 wins in 67 F2 races, but one of those was his third year, so Iif you only use the first 2, it's 3 wins in 45.

Buemi - 2 in 30 GP2 races, or 3 in 40 if you count GP2 Asia.

Buemi deemed ready for F1 at 20.
de Vries deemed ready for F1 at 27.

Both have a Formula E title.

Buemi has x2 WDC in WEC.
Nyck doesn't even have a class WDC.
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#37

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

DoubleFart wrote: 1 year ago I love how you're dismissing Buemi, yet talking up de Vries in the other thread. Buemi has done all Nyck has done and more.

NdV - 8 wins in 67 F2 races, but one of those was his third year, so Iif you only use the first 2, it's 3 wins in 45.

Buemi - 2 in 30 GP2 races, or 3 in 40 if you count GP2 Asia.

Buemi deemed ready for F1 at 20.
de Vries deemed ready for F1 at 27.

Both have a Formula E title.

Buemi has x2 WDC in WEC.
Nyck doesn't even have a class WDC.
Buemi in period was who I referred to. His performances post F1 were better than his early F1 performances. :wink:

NdV did all his stuff pre making it.to F1 :haha:

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#38

Post by DoubleFart »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago
DoubleFart wrote: 1 year ago I love how you're dismissing Buemi, yet talking up de Vries in the other thread. Buemi has done all Nyck has done and more.

NdV - 8 wins in 67 F2 races, but one of those was his third year, so Iif you only use the first 2, it's 3 wins in 45.

Buemi - 2 in 30 GP2 races, or 3 in 40 if you count GP2 Asia.

Buemi deemed ready for F1 at 20.
de Vries deemed ready for F1 at 27.

Both have a Formula E title.

Buemi has x2 WDC in WEC.
Nyck doesn't even have a class WDC.
Buemi in period was who I referred to. His performances post F1 were better than his early F1 performances. :wink:

NdV did all his stuff pre making it.to F1 :haha:
Yes, that's what happens when you're not good enough for F1 in your early 20s - you have an extra 6 years to do things.
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MonteCristo wrote: 2 years agoVettel: Not a fan at all on track. But off track, good guy.
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#39

Post by Ruslan »

Everso... sorry for the delayed response to your response. I have been actually busy for the last few weeks, which is a good thing.
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago I found those two articles, or at least the comments by Algersuari quite conflicted.

In the first article he talks of a good relationship with Marko despite the screaming matches and 'communication difficulties' he mentioned.
"I tried to explain things calmly but if a person is like a wall, the sound just comes back at you."

However, Alguersuari said he actually had a good relationship with Marko, and is "grateful" both to him and Red Bull for the opportunity to race in Formula 1.
Twelve months later he is talking differently ....
.....he still has nightmares about Dr Helmut Marko.
Like all abusive situations (and I do not have a strong background in psychology) these things evolve. So not surprised he would still be viewing things positively and then change his mind over time. In fact, it seems perfectly natural.

Now... I do have a little experience with management and have seen those type of managers. I do not like them. It does seem to be who Marko is as a manager.

I do think Jaime Alguersuari had some potential. Maybe not enough, but the style of management at Red Bull clearly does not work for everyone.
At the end of the day any teenager/ early twenties guy in F1 is going to have to face knocks and needs to be emotionally strong. Perhaps stronger than Jaime was. :idunno:
Not sure I buy that argument. Good management can make people better.
As mentioned already, the Red Bull Junior programme has been fraught with disappointed Juniors and has led to many casualties of which Jaime is just one. Im sure it (the RB group) is a highly toxic environment unless your name is Max or Sebastian. Maybe the reality of F1 and the expectations post Vettel was just too much for Jaime.
Well, I do think Red Bull is a toxic environment except for a select few. Suspect you could manage a successful development program without is being so toxic.

As I said originally, those articles just kind of reinforces everything I believe about Helmut Marko and his driver programs. Kind of curious now how will Gasly do compared to Ocon.
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#40

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 1 year ago Everso... sorry for the delayed response to your response. I have been actually busy for the last few weeks, which is a good thing.
No problems at all.... funnily enough only earlier today it crossed my mind I had not noticed you posting of late

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#41

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Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago
Ruslan wrote: 1 year ago Everso... sorry for the delayed response to your response. I have been actually busy for the last few weeks, which is a good thing.
No problems at all.... funnily enough only earlier today it crossed my mind I had not noticed you posting of late
Well, the season is over.
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