Williams family bows out of F1

Current Formula One related news, information and discussion.
Post Reply
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 48994
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

Williams family bows out of F1

#1

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Williams.... Where to from here?

A situation I find very sad is the rapid decline of Williams over recent years. A far cry from the team I remember seeing transform from a Kit car F1 team arriving at Brands Hatch with a Transit van and an F1 car on an open trailer towed behind an ageing station wagon full of spares, through the arrival of Patrick Head and the transformation of the team with Saudia money and Alan Jones, Clay Regazzoni, not to mention cars of sheer beauty. (Yes I remember I whooped with joy standing at Silverstone when Clay won their first ever GP after Alan Jones retired from the lead with a water pump failure IIRC). Watching Sir Frank winning running marathons even. From that soon followed their first WDC/ WCC win with Jones, backing that up with another WDC win for Keke Rosberg.

The first ever 160mph lap at Silverstone in the years with the turbo Honda engine, the domination of the 90's, title wins for Piquet, Mansell, Prost, Hill, even JV. Surviving and fighting back to greater success after the terrible accident to team founder Frank Williams,

Even in the early noughties they were quick, but since say 2005 success has been little and far between for the team that still has more constructors titles than McLaren. Now just over 700 GPs on from when Williams started properly, 114 wins later they are not even a shadow of what they once were.

We now have a team that seems only able to make promises, with rookie drivers with more money than talent. The blind leading the blind in development terms, with an unlikely return wannabee in Kubica leading their development. He by his own admission does not understand the current tyres.This year has been simply appalling, and surely their performance at Monaco must be the nadir of their existence. Sirotkin performed well in practice and qualifying, looking no doubt at a points finish to turn the tide, but no the team fucked that up by not having wheels on the car 3 minutes before the off. Jammed wheelnut or not it was inexcusable, and the 10 second stop and go they earned for that destroyed their weekend, with the unimpressive Stroll whingeing his way to not even being able to catch him.

They entered this year with hope things would turn around. They had a hope with the appointment of Paddy Lowe, fresh from Mercedes success. They have the best customer engine available. But as soon as the first wheel was turned in testing it was clear that 2018 was not going to be better. The year started badly with news that their naming sponsor, Martini, would be bowing out at year end. It needs more than a billionaire father of a driver. And how long will he remain keen to continue with his son bleating and complaining openly about the team.

Is it really all about their limited budget? It seems they have more budget that the far more impressive Force India.

Last month they announced the departure of their chief designer Ed Wood, who left the team due to personal reasons. He was replaced by a chief engineer, Doug McKiernan, who has assumed full responsibility over the aerodynamic and design direction of the car.

Now this weekend I see they have lost their ex Ferrari head of Aero, Dirk de Beer. He has been replaced by another underling from within the team. It hardly seems that with relative lightweights as heads of departments that any turnaround is likely in the future.

So, what is the future for this once great and iconic team? Can they ever return to any of their former greatness? Can they even win another race? Hell, the way they went last weekend will they score points again? Currently they are well behind the recently traditional wooden spooners Sauber, with just one fairly fortunate points winning result to their tally.

What does the future hold for them? What should they do? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel? Is it the train coming the other way?

Discuss.....

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
Antonov
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 13646
Joined: 15 years ago
Real Name: Tobias
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: MP4/13 ; F40
Favourite Driver: M. Hakkinen
Favourite Circuit: Some shitty street circuit
Car(s) Currently Owned: VW Golf GTI
Location: home

#2

Post by Antonov »

the only way is up
User avatar
John
Ultimate Member
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8885
Joined: 8 years ago
Real Name: Jo
Location: Insert Swedish countryball here

#3

Post by John »

If Williams was a city, it'd be Detroit.
2018 GTP Accuracy champion.

CEREAL IS A SOUP.
User avatar
theracer120
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 6219
Joined: 15 years ago
Real Name: Simon
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

#4

Post by theracer120 »

Although they haven't won a race for a long time they have gone downhill in a big way this year. You only have to go back to 2014/15 to see when they were doing reasonably well, in fact they finished 3rd in points for both of those seasons.

Even with Stroll and Massa last year they still finished 5th in constructors points, this year they are dead last so far. In fairness to Lance he did have basically the same amount of points as Felipe last year and he did have that 3rd at Baku, although I do still think he and Sirotkin are a poor combination.
User avatar
kals
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 28276
Joined: 16 years ago
Real Name: Kieran
Favourite Motorsport: F1..BTCC..MotoGP
Favourite Racing Car: Benetton B189
Favourite Circuit: Donington Park
Location: New Jersey

#5

Post by kals »

John wrote: 5 years ago If Williams was a city, it'd be Detroit.
Don’t think Williams would appreciate a creepy stalker in the name of @Antonov

Joking aside, this isn’t unusual territory for Williams. They were in the same situation in 2013, 2006/7, etc...
User avatar
Antonov
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 13646
Joined: 15 years ago
Real Name: Tobias
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: MP4/13 ; F40
Favourite Driver: M. Hakkinen
Favourite Circuit: Some shitty street circuit
Car(s) Currently Owned: VW Golf GTI
Location: home

#6

Post by Antonov »

I feel the departure of Pat Symonds might have hurt.

The utter superiority of the Mercedes engine dwindling certainly plays its role as well.

And the driver combination could have been a lot better (especially Stroll I feel).
But I don't believe for one minute that having Kubica in the car will make it suddenly better.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 48994
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#7

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I have heard Stroll complaining in the last couple of races over seat problems, and it seems that there is a problem in this area. Apparently Sirotkin suffered over the weekend and Kubica also confirmed the problem.
Robert Kubica has admitted Williams' drivers are suffering from more than just a lack of pace in 2018.

In Barcelona, Sergey Sirotkin admitted he struggled throughout the weekend with "seat comfort".

"Let's say it this way to not upset anyone -- the problem is with seat comfort," said the Russian.

It is believed Lance Stroll is suffering with a similar problem, and Robert Kubica, Williams' reserve driver, confirmed the issue.

"We do not have too much comfort in this car, but it has been known since November," he told Eleven Sports.

"Problems have to be solved in the winter rather than pretending that everything is good to make it look nice politically.

"I do not drive, so I don't say anything else," the former BMW and Renault driver added.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
User avatar
John
Ultimate Member
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8885
Joined: 8 years ago
Real Name: Jo
Location: Insert Swedish countryball here

#8

Post by John »

What is that problem exactly? Every single vibration bolting through the spine, or what? I mean, a F1 car is hardly known for it's plush seats to begin with...
2018 GTP Accuracy champion.

CEREAL IS A SOUP.
User avatar
kals
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 28276
Joined: 16 years ago
Real Name: Kieran
Favourite Motorsport: F1..BTCC..MotoGP
Favourite Racing Car: Benetton B189
Favourite Circuit: Donington Park
Location: New Jersey

#9

Post by kals »

Williams issues in 2018 are entirely their own doing, the drivers cannot be blamed. Both are reasonable drivers with decent backgrounds.

In 2017 (and previous seasons) the Williams was very slippery in a straight line. One of the fastest through the speed traps. Williams attempted to add downforce but created issues with an aero-stall, which meant no grip in the corners and they were also slow down the straights. In some of the prior races you could see Stroll and Sirotkin wrestling with the car in the turns. Sirotkin appeared to overcome some of the issues in Monaco, until the issue on the grid spoilt his race, and he subsequently said that he reckons Williams now have a handle of the aero issues.
User avatar
John
Ultimate Member
Ultimate Member
Posts: 8885
Joined: 8 years ago
Real Name: Jo
Location: Insert Swedish countryball here

#10

Post by John »

I must say I Sirotkin has performed way better than I expected him to do. In a miserable, difficult, heap of shit of a car, he seems to get on with it in a completely different manner than Lance Stroll does, and he handily outperformed Stroll at Monaco. If you look beyond a few unlucky penalties and his team constantly trying to screw him over during the weekend, he was really solid.
2018 GTP Accuracy champion.

CEREAL IS A SOUP.
User avatar
MonteCristo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10662
Joined: 8 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: Openwheel
Favourite Racing Car: Tyrrell P34/Protos
Favourite Driver: JV
Favourite Circuit: Road America
Location: Brisbane, Australia

#11

Post by MonteCristo »

Antonov wrote: 5 years ago the only way is up
Or... out.
Oscar Piastri in F1! Catch the fever! Vettel Hate Club. Life membership.

2012 GTP Non-Championship Champion | 2012 Guess the Kai-Star Half Marathon Time Champion | 2018 GTP Champion | 2019 GTP Champion
User avatar
kals
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 28276
Joined: 16 years ago
Real Name: Kieran
Favourite Motorsport: F1..BTCC..MotoGP
Favourite Racing Car: Benetton B189
Favourite Circuit: Donington Park
Location: New Jersey

#12

Post by kals »

John wrote: 5 years ago I must say I Sirotkin has performed way better than I expected him to do. In a miserable, difficult, heap of shit of a car, he seems to get on with it in a completely different manner than Lance Stroll does, and he handily outperformed Stroll at Monaco. If you look beyond a few unlucky penalties and his team constantly trying to screw him over during the weekend, he was really solid.
Stroll's race performances have been much better than we appreciate. Sirotkin got a handle on the car in Monaco, whereas Stroll look lost (but that could be circuit specific). Both drivers are doing a better job than they're being given credit for.
User avatar
myownalias
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 285
Joined: 6 years ago
Favourite Motorsport: F1
Favourite Driver: Daniel Ricciardo
Favourite Circuit: Spa Francorchamps
Car(s) Currently Owned: Ford Fusion (3.0L V6)
Location: Wichita, KS
Contact:

#13

Post by myownalias »

Williams was the team, along with Nigel Mansell that peaked my interest in F1 some 25 years ago, so it's painful to see Williams slump to propping up the field this season. I truly hope that they can bounce back and start challenging for podiums and wins. Williams is such an iconic name in F1, much like McLaren, it seems to me that modern F1 is not privateer, or garagista team friendly, saying that HAAS seem to be doing OK on occasion.
myownaliasThe Englishman in KansasTwitter: @myownaliasFormula 1 Articles
User avatar
Antonov
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 13646
Joined: 15 years ago
Real Name: Tobias
Favourite Motorsport: Formula 1
Favourite Racing Car: MP4/13 ; F40
Favourite Driver: M. Hakkinen
Favourite Circuit: Some shitty street circuit
Car(s) Currently Owned: VW Golf GTI
Location: home

#14

Post by Antonov »

Williams not so long ago was easily second best. They could even have won Silverstone 2015 (?) if it werent for Massa holding up team mate Bottas.

Something has gone drastically wrong in a relatively short period of time.
Hopefully a solution may also present itself in the short term.

That being said, I have never really been 'attached' to the Williams team for some reason.
User avatar
Everso Biggyballies
Legendary Member
Legendary Member
Posts: 48994
Joined: 18 years ago
Real Name: Chris
Favourite Motorsport: Anything that goes left and right.
Favourite Racing Car: Too Many to mention
Favourite Driver: Kimi,Niki,Jim(none called Michael)
Favourite Circuit: Nordschleife, Spa, Mt Panorama.
Car(s) Currently Owned: Audi SQ5 3.0L V6 TwinTurbo
Location: Just moved 3 klms further away so now 11 klms from Albert Park, Melbourne.

#15

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Having witnessed them racing as a garagiste team in the early 70's, entering a Politoys and a March 711 at Brands for Pesca and Pace back in 1972, I have a special place in my heart for them.

* I started life with nothing, and still have most of it left


“Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows!” (Walter Röhrl)

* I married Miss Right. Just didn't know her first name was Always
Post Reply