The Max Verstappen Thread

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The Max Verstappen Thread

#1

Post by Ruslan »

I don't see a Verstappen thread on this board (it is probably there, but I have not seen one in the last year).

Anyhow, a quote from him got my attention:

"How they reacted and handled everything shows that I'm on the right team. They will walk through fire for me."

I have been critical of Red Bull in the past for being overly supportive of a single driver on the team. They did that with Vettel vs Webber, it is the reason Ricciardo bailed on them and I think part of the reason why they have had such a struggle with their second driver. I do believe the Red Bull's unquestioning support of Vettel early in his career damaged him as a driver. Now I see Verstappen's "walk through fire" quote, and it does appear to be more of the same.

I do think it was a PR mistake to appeal the decision, so the question is, why did they do it? Was it a group-think scenario where Verstappen, Marko, Horner, and Verstappen Sr. all just felt it should be done? Have they reached the point where their lead driver is always in the right? That appears to be how they treated Vettel, and I think it damaged him in the long run.

Anyhow, just ruminations for now. If Red Bull has the faster car they have nothing to worry about.
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#2

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Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I do think it was a PR mistake to appeal the decision....
Just to amplify my comment: The news I spotted after I wrote this is "Red Bull Racing part ways with team member over racist texts":

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... cist-texts

Christian Horner is not having a good day.
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#3

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago
Ruslan wrote: 2 years ago I do think it was a PR mistake to appeal the decision....
Just to amplify my comment: The news I spotted after I wrote this is "Red Bull Racing part ways with team member over racist texts":

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... cist-texts

Christian Horner is not having a good day.
Yes I read that although it suggests the person is/was not part of the race team but factory based. But not a good day.
Noticed on Sky that Horner was claiming much of what he said or was alleged to have said post Sillystone was misquoted or out of context. He seemed to me to be frantically back pedalling in his interview, suggesting it is not a Lewis / Merc thing and their attitude would have been the same whatever the team / driver was. He also claimed Lewis was 20kh faster than usual at Copse on the incident lap.

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#4

Post by Ruslan »

There are times that Christian Horner appears to be one of the nicest guys in the paddock...and then....
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#5

Post by Ruslan »

I am not sure anyone has commented on this article yet: https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3401 ... -monaco-gp

Max Verstappen's dad, Jos, blasts Red Bull's strategy at Monaco GP:

But.....

1. If it was posted by his Dad on Max's website, does this mean that Max approves this message?
2. This does look like the Verstappen's have fired the opening salvos in a team war.
3. If I was a team manager, I think I would make it very clear that I would not want to see anything like this again posted to social media. When team mates war, another team often wins (i,e. Williams 1981, Williams 1986, McLaren 2007).
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#6

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Ruslan wrote: 1 year ago I am not sure anyone has commented on this article yet: https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3401 ... -monaco-gp

Max Verstappen's dad, Jos, blasts Red Bull's strategy at Monaco GP:

But.....

1. If it was posted by his Dad on Max's website, does this mean that Max approves this message?
2. This does look like the Verstappen's have fired the opening salvos in a team war.
3. If I was a team manager, I think I would make it very clear that I would not want to see anything like this again posted to social media. When team mates war, another team often wins (i,e. Williams 1981, Williams 1986, McLaren 2007).
Jos is looking at it solely from the Max perspective and not the TEAM perspective. Horner has to maximise (sic) the team result. Had Max been prioritised over Sergio when Max almost had to double stack.... ie leave Sergio out for another lap, Sergio would have ended behind Leclerc and the team benefit negatively affected. The Team result is after all what pays Max's retainer.

There is still huge doubt in my mind that Max would have rejoined ahead of Sainz because of his (Max's) poorer track position initially. He would also have then had to use his mediums harder to try and pass Sainz to even get to the lead. Sergio had track position, did a blinding inlap that Max could not match, and still barely got out in front of Carlos. Max might have come out 2nd, still behind Sainz.

In essence had Max been prioritised over Sergio he still would not have won the race, and Sergio would have come out behind Leclerc. Yes he would have maybe come second, but at the end of the day, Max's problem was he qualified poorly and performed poorly (by his standards. If Jos thinks Sergio cost Max pole by bringing out a red he is wrong on that count too. Leclerc was even quicker and he lost his lap. Carlos the same. Max had a poor weekend. Full stop. (Even the Autosport rankings had him a lowly 7/10, only better than Lewis(6/10) for the whole top 10).

Jos should maybe look back to Spain when RB already gave Max preference there and gifted him the win, thanks to not once but three times Sergio giving way to Max on Horner's request.

As for Jos giving Red Bull a serve for not providing Max with a car that suited him, all cars are circuit sensitive. Their cars have been great all year elsewhere and expected Monaco to be difficult because the Ferrari strength is their low speed traction and ability to be quick out of the corners. But it has to be said Sergio managed OK with a similar handling car.

At the end of the day Jos, STFU and be thankful your underperforming on the weekend son came out of it with an extended championship lead, thanks more to Ferrari's strategic faux-pas than Max's brilliance.

As an aside I wonder if this comment from Horner today is in any way related to Jos's ill founded comments.....
The Spanish GP team orders controversy highlighted some tension in the camp over Perez's position, but it was soon followed by the Monaco victory and subsequent confirmation of a two-year contract extension.

Horner insisted the team doesn't care about which of its drivers scoops the title.

"It doesn't matter to us which of the two is world champion," he said. "Of course, the constructors' is enormously important.

"But whether it's Max or Checo, they're both Red Bull drivers, and they've both got the same chance. Of course, it's a long, long season, and it will have its ebbs and flows. But it's great to have both drivers right at the sharp end.

"Checo is in the form of his career, he's doing a great job. And it's not a one-off. I mean, we saw his pole position in Jeddah. And he's really hitting a rich vein of form. So that's fantastic for us.
Last edited by Everso Biggyballies 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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#7

Post by ReneLotus »

That's a non-story, ridiculously milked by ESPN.
Jos posts a column on the official Verstappen site that was started when he joined F1, so it is not solely Max's site and I imagine that neither Max nor Jos has much say about what is posted on it, excedpt stuff that they have written themselves.

Also, the story he has written is far from a blast at Red Bull. Yes, he is disappointed that Red Bull went for a strategy that worked out better for Perez, but he also writes that he is not completely objective on that point as he is the father of the driver that didn't benefit from it.

I'm filing it under 'clickbait'.
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#8

Post by erwin greven »

I see a lot of, in particular British, media picking up everything to blast Red Bull, Max or Jos Verstappen. Since Abu Dhabi 2021, the anti-Max movement has become huge. How serious it is? Remember the death treats towards Latifi? They rehash racism, violence and all the other things they can find or even make up.

And they combine that with the "Hamilton is God" attitude.
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#9

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ReneLotus wrote: 1 year ago That's a non-story, ridiculously milked by ESPN.
Actually, it is not. It is an open and public criticism of Red Bull for not giving his son preferred treatment at Monaco. As he travels to the races with Max, it is pretty hard to imagine that Max did not know about the posting either before it was made or shortly after.

It was extremely unprofessional in my book.

Further, a couple of the phrases used in the quote I find particularly damming. I.e.
1) "Red Bull...exerted little influence to help Max to the front,"
2) "The championship leader, Max, was not helped in that sense by the chosen strategy. It turned completely to Checo's favour. That was disappointing to me, and I would have liked it to be different for the championship leader." - I am sorry, but this looks like he is saying that they should have compromised Perez' race for the sake of Max.
3) "I think ten points from Max have been thrown away here." - So clearly he thinks this should have been Max's win, not Perez'

I think this posting is very problematic. It is very far from a "non-story." Certainly the British media is not to blame for Jos Verstappen's posting.
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#10

Post by ReneLotus »

I think a lot of that is due to losing some nuance trough translation (which the Verstappen site has provided). When you read it in Dutch, it is very mild compared to how it reads in English.

And it is not strange that the father of someone who is leading a tense championship can be a bit miffed that his son didn't win. As he said himself, he is not completely objective because it is about his son.
Like I said, I don't read much into it. Let's agree to disagree on this one :)
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#11

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

The simple truth is that Max would not have won that race if his arse was on fire, whatever strategy was employed. :wink:

To be honest the ESPN article was just quoting what Jos had written on the Max site. All they added to it was an admittedly clickbaity headline about Jos "Blasting Red Bull's Strategy"..... and a paragraph which said what we all knew, that Max was not at his best, and that he only inherited third because of Ferrari's screw up. Which is I think true.

My previous post analysed the strategy and showed Max would not have come out ahead of Sainz even if Max had had pitted instead of Sergio. I like Max, but this was not his best weekend by a long shot.

To me, Jos's article was more clickbait than the ESPN one. My opinion. (And yes I agree I am not a fan of Jos in a management role)
I do take on board that he admits his comments are (naturally) biased based on the fact Max is his son and I respect that.

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#12

Post by ReneLotus »

Fortunately Jos Verstappen is no where near being a president or something like that :D
With regards to clickbait, this was the first time since 2001 that I visited the Verstappen website. If it hadn't been for this thread, I still wouldn't have.
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#13

Post by MonteCristo »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago The simple truth is that Max would not have won that race if his arse was on fire, whatever strategy was employed. :wink:
The only way Max would have won was if Perez deliberately parked it on the apex Rascasse and Sainz ran into the back of him.

And if Jos thinks that's a sporting way for his son to win, well eff him.
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#14

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

MonteCristo wrote: 1 year ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 year ago The simple truth is that Max would not have won that race if his arse was on fire, whatever strategy was employed. :wink:
The only way Max would have won was if Perez deliberately parked it on the apex Rascasse and Sainz ran into the back of him.

And if Jos thinks that's a sporting way for his son to win, well eff him.
Ive heard a half spin at Portiers before the tunnel works quite well..... :whistling: :suspicious: :wink:

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#15

Post by Ruslan »

ReneLotus wrote: 1 year ago I think a lot of that is due to losing some nuance trough translation (which the Verstappen site has provided). When you read it in Dutch, it is very mild compared to how it reads in English.

And it is not strange that the father of someone who is leading a tense championship can be a bit miffed that his son didn't win. As he said himself, he is not completely objective because it is about his son.
Like I said, I don't read much into it. Let's agree to disagree on this one :)
You feel motivated enough to give it a "milder" translation of it from Dutch? Because I read it only one way in English. Does Christian Horner read Dutch?
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