2025 Driver Market

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#76

Post by Star »

Bottom post of the previous page:

I wouldn't argue with any of what you said there @Everso Biggyballies. There are always key drivers and seats, only once they are resolved does all the rest fall into place.

The important issues that need resolving are Sainz, Mercedes and Red Bull number 2. Once they're done, it's a scramble for who can end up where with what is left. Until that is done, a lot of people will have their fingers crossed and will be hoping the call will come and it will be them. Many of those people are going to be disappointed I am thinking.
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#77

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Marko has been in the news talking of the driver options for the two Red Bull Teams.....

One obviously regarding Sainz, which from the way Marko spoke, spoke Carlos has offers already that seem to put him out of the RB picture. He also went on to discuss the Ricciardo side of the plan and specifically the Lawson factor.

Re Carlos we have for a long time been aware of Sauber / Audi being more than keen on Carlos and it seems he has a financially attractive offer from Sauber which implies an impending deadline to accept / decline. (End April is rumoured)

Marko, was publicly courting Sainz at Suzuka last time out and there Marko also claimed "Audi is making pressure" on the 2025 driver market. Now in China he has added.....of Sainz: "We're talking to him, he's having his strongest season in F1, but he has a very lucrative offer from Audi that we can't match or beat..

So it seems Red Bull is out of the running. Carlos of course feels that Red Bull didnt do the right thing last time when he was treated like a second class citizen over the clear support of Max. Of course history tells of Sainz quitting Red Bull and heading to Renault. Whereas that was arguably a step up from Toro Rosso as it was then, it was hardly a successful period, no podiums and an average pointscore of just over two per race pretty much stalled his career. Enough to have given him an intimate knowledge of committing to a second string tam and clearly that is going to be influencing him over signing up for a team like Sauber, even with the promise of Audi involvement. Its is a clear drop from the race and podium winning record he has enjoyed at Ferrari and even McLaren where he spent a couple of years after leaving Renault. Of course Carlos to Red Bull in place of Sergio will be a cost to Red Bull given Sergio brings in Mexican money that covers his retainer..... that would stop if Sergio was not there.

Sainz as we know is too good for Sauber, and it would entail a frustrating pre Audi spell. Compounded by the fact Audi will take at least a season getting their act together. They wont be top shelf in year one.

However the lucrative offer wont be such an issue for Mercedes given they are currently paying lottery win money to Lewis. Whatever the Audi offer to Carlos is it will be a lot less thn Toto was paying Lewis.

So, although there are only 2 teams with its line up settled for next year, McLaren and of course Ferrari. Aston Martin of course are another one Carlos was talking too but now his Spanish mate has decided to continue with Aston.

Realistically for Carlos its Mercedes or Sauber / Audi. Sauber will give him a nice pay day but little short term opportunity. Mercedes should be able to give a better opportunity and a decent wage. Any of the other teams with vacancies offer less.... they will be for less $$$ and also limited opportunity.

I do hope Mercedes and Carlos can work something out. Carlos is too good to be driving for Sauber. I just want him to be in a car capable of allowing him to continue to beat Leclerc and indeed Lewis in his old seat. It would be glorious for Carlos to beat Lewis in Carlos's old seat.

As for Danny Ric / Lawson / VCARB it seems Lawson is free to talk to other teams if neither of the Bull teams come up with something for next year. It seems Marko would like to and is trying to get Lawson something this year for evaluation for next year. Sargeant should be looking over his shoulder, especially as I have read Sareant is on a contract that is pretty much race to race nowadays. It also must have Danny keen to improve his showing this year.

Marko is far from saying there wont be a change at VCARB this year, even if the Danny has until Miami to prove his worth rumours we read of round the AGP.
Marko also sought to clarify recent rumours regarding the driver line-up at RB given Daniel Ricciardo's poor start to the campaign and his successful 2023 injury replacement, Liam Lawson, still without a full-time F1 drive.

Regarding reports of a possible Ricciardo/Lawson in-season swap that have emerged in the New Zealand and Italian press in recent weeks, Marko said: “With Liam Lawson as a reserve driver, we obviously have a strong driver in the team who is contractually entitled to drive for another team if he doesn't get a cockpit with us in 2025,” he continued.

“In this respect, it would of course be exciting for us if we could see him in Formula 1 this year to get an even clearer picture.

“But it's a complex issue, so we'll have to see how things progress.”

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#78

Post by Aty »

Perez is copying Max's car setup, and is successful wih it. Under normal circumstances, Dr. Marko admtted, that Perez is their best option for next year. For all practical purposes RBR is then not hiring. I thought Albon was going to move to partner Max, but that alternatve is not being discussed anymore.

It's up to Toto now to solve the last puzzle. 12 days for Carlos to tell us where he is going. He can refuse Audi money, and Toto will get him in May on cheap, but is Allison a so much better car designer?
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#79

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 2 weeks ago For all practical purposes RBR is then not hiring. I thought Albon was going to move to partner Max, but that alternatve is not being discussed anymore.
Albon is very firmly under contract at Williams until the end of next year. Vowles however implied that for Albon to leave would need someone with deep pockets to buy him out and compensate Williams. . So Albon is not 100% out of either Merc or Red Bulls equation but certainly less attractive now, given his contract would need to be 'bought out' and Williams compensated.

Of course Mercedes could tempt / compensate Vowles with cheap engines, whilst RB could offer Lawson to Williams 'on loan' with any Albon buyout negotiations. (IIRC Albon himself initially went to Williams on a loan / return to sender deal, being contractually still an RB 'pool' / reserve driver..... although after the first year when Albon extended his Williams deal any formal ties to Red Bull were then removed or had expired)

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#80

Post by Aty »

D/T 2024-04-19 11:42 (CEST)

Max reaffirms his desire to stay at RBR.
As long as Red Bull remains "peaceful and calm", Max Verstappen says he's going nowhere.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/only-pea ... -bull.html

In theory Toto has received his answer (we assume he was awaiting). It's no what he was hoping for, but Max cleared up for everyone. No reason to hold his decision who will drive with them next year.
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#81

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 2 weeks ago D/T 2024-04-19 11:42 (CEST)

Max reaffirms his desire to stay at RBR.
As long as Red Bull remains "peaceful and calm", Max Verstappen says he's going nowhere.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/only-pea ... -bull.html

In theory Toto has received his answer (we assume he was awaiting). It's no what he was hoping for, but Max cleared up for everyone. No reason to hold his decision who will drive with them next year.
It wasnt rocket science, certainly for next year.. Game playing by Max to ensure he keeps his share value high and to keep Red Bull on their toes.. See what value others are prepared to cough up for his name on the side of their car.

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#82

Post by Aty »

It's Carlos Sainz's show now. I am not convinced that Mercedes will have a winner next year, so, why bother? The offer on the table from Toto was supposedly for one year only. Audi, said Helmut (who apparently got ths from Carlos), offered three years. (For start.)
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#83

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Three years in purgatory performing with the also rans.

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#84

Post by Aty »

No one wants to design a new car before 2026 sans issues they know about. Teams are therefore just patching up painful mistakes with various degree of success. In 22 months new era kicks in, and the teams will have opportunity to improve their series standing. I am hoping Audi will do well. Regarding "also run" situation we have one right now. Teams are coming to deal P2 - P20 in all races bar one.
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#85

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Aty wrote: 1 week ago No one wants to design a new car before 2026 sans issues they know about. Teams are therefore just patching up painful mistakes with various degree of success. In 22 months new era kicks in, and the teams will have opportunity to improve their series standing. I am hoping Audi will do well. Regarding "also run" situation we have one right now. Teams are coming to deal P2 - P20 in all races bar one.
Lets not forget, no one is allowed to start work on designing / developing their new cars until January 1st 2025. I guess that is a reason behind the regs being finalised so late so they cant even really do much other than talk internally about concepts, without putting pencil to drawing board. Or inputing specific stuff into computers. Of course they will be able to plan resources and the like in advance just not actively start the development of ideas beyond the planning.

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#86

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

I posted this in another thread but it is more relevant here and reminds us of Drivers with 2025 contracts in place and those (arguably 14) drivers looking for work for 2025.
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 week ago
Drivers already with contract in place for next year as I understand it. Of course if you throw in drivers like Liam Lawson,Ollie Bearman and Antonelli, all very much looking for a seat and available, albeit with strings.

Albon (apparently.... according to Vowles Williams had some kind of an option they have taken up)
Hamilton
Leclerc
Norris
Piastri
Verstappen
Russell
Alonso
Stroll (Technically out of contract but we assume staying with Daddies team..... unless a move to WEC with Aston Martin as the internet says is possible)

So 11 current drivers with no contract next year.

Sainz
Bottas
Zhou
Sargeant
Danny Ric
Tsunoda
KMag
Hulkenberg
Perez
Gasly
Ocon

Plus those others on the outer (Lawson Bearman etc)
If you take the 11 current drivers and add the serious non current contenders, you can add three to make 14.... Lawson Bearman and Antonelli
(Both Lawson Bearman have actual recent F1 race experience...... also Antonelli tested an F1 car just last week for Mercedes)

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#87

Post by Aty »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 week ago I posted this in another thread but it is more relevant here and reminds us of Drivers with 2025 contracts in place and those (arguably 14) drivers looking for work for 2025.
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 1 week ago
Drivers already with contract in place for next year as I understand it. Of course if you throw in drivers like Liam Lawson,Ollie Bearman and Antonelli, all very much looking for a seat and available, albeit with strings.

Albon (apparently.... according to Vowles Williams had some kind of an option they have taken up)
Hamilton
Leclerc
Norris
Piastri
Verstappen
Russell
Alonso
Stroll (Technically out of contract but we assume staying with Daddies team..... unless a move to WEC with Aston Martin as the internet says is possible)

So 11 current drivers with no contract next year.

Sainz
Bottas
Zhou
Sargeant
Danny Ric
Tsunoda
KMag
Hulkenberg
Perez
Gasly
Ocon

Plus those others on the outer (Lawson Bearman etc)
If you take the 11 current drivers and add the serious non current contenders, you can add three to make 14.... Lawson Bearman and Antonelli
(Both Lawson Bearman have actual recent F1 race experience...... also Antonelli tested an F1 car just last week for Mercedes)
Tsunoda and Perez will stay where they are. (If junior is moved out, Tsunoda might be pulled over by Honda.)
Hulk and Sainz to Sauber (per my wishful thinking)
French boys - who knows - Ocon to Mercedes on a short contract..?
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#88

Post by Aty »

Sergio Perez openly admits he is pushing for more than a one-year contract extension at Red Bull Racing.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/perez-ad ... -deal.html

I think he might just get it.
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#89

Post by Ruslan »

From the various rumors, it does look like Bottas, Zhou, Sargeant and one of the Red Bull Jr. drivers (Ricciardo or Tsunoda) are in their last season of F1. We saw at this last race how much the audience supports Zhou. Mexico has also gone wild over Perez (which is kind of strange). From a marketing point of view, it is clear that some drivers are drawing viewership and fans to F1. For business reasons and the long term health of the sport, they probably need 12-14 teams and 24-28 driver slots. They are going to end up ignoring significant elements of the world market due to a lack of race seats.
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#90

Post by Aty »

Just to clear a one misconception;
Wolff said that Mercedes had held conversations with many drivers over next year’s vacant race seat, he stated: “As for Max, no, we are not at the point where we would have discussed years or stuff.”
Reuters

I am surprised. After reading tonne of articles on the subject in recent months, one was expecting for Max to jump a ship for lucrative pay (at any moment). Not so, said Toto, but, maybe later. Max has depth Mercedes likes, and he is now quickest driver in a fast car. Who would not love to have him on his team?

Internet is a danger place if used as an educational and information medium. What Reuters got in that article wrong is calling Toto German. The fact is, he is Austrian (Wien 1972). Maybe it's all the same for them. Here we have it. Even Reuters aren't without factual blemishes, minor as they are.
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#91

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Horner confirms "We are in no hurry"

For all Sergio's expectations and belief that he would know his future within a month or less Horner has scotched that by confirming they are in no hurry, and indeed would be leaving their decision until later in the season..... for the specific reason of keeping an eye on Sergios form and particularly his consistency, specifically suggesting that Sergio started last season strongly but from Miami, where he arrived within a handful of points to Max, he had an alarming about turn of form.... by Spain he was 60 points of Max with Alonso on his heels and by the British GP the gap was up to 4 wins.

His wording pretty much said as a team we are in no rush, whereas obviously theose under consideration would like a swift answer the team wont be pressured. Horner however did hint towards it staying as is..... as long as Sergio continues to be consistent.

Horner also confirmed that contrary to what has been said they in reality do not know what or even if Audi have made an offer to Sainz although he admitted that Carlos is the key player in the market at the moment.

The reality of Red Bull is to me that they are more than happy with Sergio this year, and are as such happy to give him time to prove his consistency or not. He also complimented Sergio on his increase in commitment saying he has spent many hours in the sim adapting his style more to the car.... a fact Hormner admitted makes development easier . If Sergio remains consistent, the gig is his, and with so many options available to the team if they lose an option through their procrastination (ie Sainz) they have other choices.

They are not that bothered if they lose Sainz given their confidence Sergio has turned a page and his this years revised modus operandi will likely avoid a slump in form. .

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