Moveable wings

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Everso Biggyballies
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#16

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

Bottom post of the previous page:

PTRACER wrote: 5 months ago About the 1968 season - were Matra and Ferrari the only teams to have moveable wings or did the other teams have them too?
Lotus certainly used adjustable high wings, not sure about low.

PTRACER wrote:
And while on the subject of aerodynamics, when they switched from high to low wings in 1969, did it reduce the downforce by much?
I found some numbers by Peter Wright which refer to downforce in pounds at 150mph through the years. That mentions in 1968 the number to be 1000 lbs.

The numbers did not show 1969 when the low wings replaced them, but the downforce numbers were still lower that that in 1976. The early high wings had little shape to them, being fairly plank-like. As wings developed they took on a more contoured aeroplane wing like shape which aided downforce.

Those (Peter Wright) numbers by year are:
1968: 1000lbs@150mph - high wings
1976: 800lbs@150mph
1978: 2000lbs@150mph
1980: 3000lbs@150mph
1981: 2300lbs@150mph - skirts banned
1982: 2500lbs@150mph
1983: 2000lbs@150mph - flat bottom
1986: 2500lbs@150mph
1992: 3500lbs@150mph - peak downforce
1995: 1800lbs@150mph - stepped floor, smaller wings
2000: 2600lbs@150mph

The peak downforce year of 1992 was of course less about wings as succh and more about the car shape and in particular suspension control.... remember 1992 was the year of active suspensionin its ultimate form before being banned. After 1992 active suspension was banned and I believe wing sizes also reduced in size and heights were governed front and rear, ... and general regulations floors became more controlling.

In effect early wings pushed the car to the ground whereas as later on as knowledge and wind tunnel / CFD se increased, floors and tunnels etc became the tools of downforce.... by then the wing / floor and basic ground effect principles sucked the car to the ground rather than pushing it to the ground.effect .

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#17

Post by erwin greven »

Small correction: Active suspension was banned after 1993.
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#18

Post by Vassago »

Yeah, the active suspension became a safety hazard after a while causing several crashes and basically the last straw was Gerhard Berger's accident at Estoril.

Unlike what Jonathan Palmer says it wasn't a mistake on cold tires but a suspension failure.

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#19

Post by PTRACER »

Everso Biggyballies wrote: 5 months ago.Those (Peter Wright) numbers by year are:
1968: 1000lbs@150mph - high wings
1976: 800lbs@150mph
1978: 2000lbs@150mph
1980: 3000lbs@150mph
1981: 2300lbs@150mph - skirts banned
1982: 2500lbs@150mph
1983: 2000lbs@150mph - flat bottom
1986: 2500lbs@150mph
1992: 3500lbs@150mph - peak downforce
1995: 1800lbs@150mph - stepped floor, smaller wings
2000: 2600lbs@150mph
I'm just wondering about those numbers a bit. For example, I have a document saved that says the Lotus 49B produced 400lbs downforce through the rear wing hence Lotus had to take upgraded hubs to the French GP. Another source which I have (no longer online) said that downforce level was recorded at 150mph. It's quite a ways off the 1000lbs mentioned.
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#20

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

PTRACER wrote: 5 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 5 months ago.Those (Peter Wright) numbers by year are:
1968: 1000lbs@150mph - high wings
1976: 800lbs@150mph
1978: 2000lbs@150mph
1980: 3000lbs@150mph
1981: 2300lbs@150mph - skirts banned
1982: 2500lbs@150mph
1983: 2000lbs@150mph - flat bottom
1986: 2500lbs@150mph
1992: 3500lbs@150mph - peak downforce
1995: 1800lbs@150mph - stepped floor, smaller wings
2000: 2600lbs@150mph
I'm just wondering about those numbers a bit. For example, I have a document saved that says the Lotus 49B produced 400lbs downforce through the rear wing hence Lotus had to take upgraded hubs to the French GP. Another source which I have (no longer online) said that downforce level was recorded at 150mph. It's quite a ways off the 1000lbs mentioned.
To be honest I thought about them too. There are numbers that dont work for me and also the odd gaps in the years. I got them I think it was from F1 Technical. Its a bit like the actual period that they were discussing at F1 Tech might have been a different period, but I do remember feeling something wasnt quite right, but quoted the numbers exactly as they appeared, comments and all. The missing years between 1968 and '76 also bugged me as they were specifically the years we were, or certainly I was, looking for. A gap of 8 years is a long time in F1, particular given the period and the rapid learning in aero and other tech stuff about geometry and even materials !

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#21

Post by DoubleFart »

I can't believe peak downforce was 1992 and not later.
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#22

Post by Everso Biggyballies »

DoubleFart wrote: 5 months ago I can't believe peak downforce was 1992 and not later.
Active suspension.

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#23

Post by Michkov »

PTRACER wrote: 5 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 5 months ago.Those (Peter Wright) numbers by year are:
1968: 1000lbs@150mph - high wings
1976: 800lbs@150mph
1978: 2000lbs@150mph
1980: 3000lbs@150mph
1981: 2300lbs@150mph - skirts banned
1982: 2500lbs@150mph
1983: 2000lbs@150mph - flat bottom
1986: 2500lbs@150mph
1992: 3500lbs@150mph - peak downforce
1995: 1800lbs@150mph - stepped floor, smaller wings
2000: 2600lbs@150mph
I'm just wondering about those numbers a bit. For example, I have a document saved that says the Lotus 49B produced 400lbs downforce through the rear wing hence Lotus had to take upgraded hubs to the French GP. Another source which I have (no longer online) said that downforce level was recorded at 150mph. It's quite a ways off the 1000lbs mentioned.
Same, I'd figured that may have been a typo that added an extra 0 on the first line. Your 400 feel closer to reality.
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#24

Post by PTRACER »

Michkov wrote: 5 months ago
PTRACER wrote: 5 months ago
Everso Biggyballies wrote: 5 months ago.Those (Peter Wright) numbers by year are:
1968: 1000lbs@150mph - high wings
1976: 800lbs@150mph
1978: 2000lbs@150mph
1980: 3000lbs@150mph
1981: 2300lbs@150mph - skirts banned
1982: 2500lbs@150mph
1983: 2000lbs@150mph - flat bottom
1986: 2500lbs@150mph
1992: 3500lbs@150mph - peak downforce
1995: 1800lbs@150mph - stepped floor, smaller wings
2000: 2600lbs@150mph
I'm just wondering about those numbers a bit. For example, I have a document saved that says the Lotus 49B produced 400lbs downforce through the rear wing hence Lotus had to take upgraded hubs to the French GP. Another source which I have (no longer online) said that downforce level was recorded at 150mph. It's quite a ways off the 1000lbs mentioned.
Same, I'd figured that may have been a typo that added an extra 0 on the first line. Your 400 feel closer to reality.
That's quite possible! I managed to import the 1968 "Spark F1" into rF2's Dev Mode the other day, and found the rear wing producing about 45kg of downforce at 150mph. That's almost 100lbs exactly. Ten times that would seem a little excessive (The car itself weighs only a little over 1000lbs)
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#25

Post by PTRACER »

Randomly came across this thread about it on a German forum: https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/comm ... 16691.html

- Team Lotus had a lever on the left side of the cockpit which moved backwards and forwards for adjusting the wing angle
- Team Gunston, running the Lotus 49, also had the same level plus an additional foot pedal for controlling the front wing
- Brabham had a dial in the cockpit that they could twist to change wing angle - I guess similar to a brake bias dial
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